Armor piercing

Longtooth · July 2002

<div class="IPBDescription">Considered?</div>I was wondering if armor piercing is emulated in NS? For example a shogun in real life excels at destroying soft targets I.E. People, while .50 cal rifles and sabot rounds excel at destroying hard targets I.E. tanks and vehicles. Is this considered in NS for example an lmg and shotgun would be great at killing lvl1 and 3 because of thier little armor but they would do little agaisnt the thickly armored lvl5 or in NS are weapons simple "better" than others?

Sgt_X · July 2002

My guess based on the facts that this is not a weapons MOD are and that Flay strives for fun over realism is, either no or not to a large degree.

Longtooth · July 2002

IF one more person tells me its not a weapons mod I will tear thier arms off and beat them to death with them. The question I asked is important to gameplay and I think would be a nice touch. If you don't care about the topic X don't post in it.

Sinister · July 2002

I read somewhere that different weapons work better with different aliens. Dont remember where though...
But I dont think Im the right person to answere this, not being a playtester or anything... If anyone knows, it would be Flayra or the playtesters...

Gazaar · July 2002

I think I vaguely remember when something like this was mentioned, we may have (not sure of course though, i could be wrong, and probably am, just saying this so I don't start any stupid fights, I fear for my forum privelidge) already beat the crap out of a topic like this. Try looking for it in the topic finding part of the forums, if you find anything you might find a thread or two discussing something like this, though I think maybe it was mostly about ammo types, which were, gunned down.

And of course, all things I say may or may not be right <img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/bob.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':bob:'> vs <img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tiny.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':tiny:'>

Diogenes_Dog · July 2002

I think it would definitely be worthwhile to have certain weapons that are particularly good (or poor) at taking down certain aliens. That kind of counterability is responsible for a lot of the depth in rts, and I don't see why it wouldn't work equally well in a hybrid like NS.

-dio

CMEast · July 2002

I think most topics like this have been discussed in the ideas forum.
All things like ammo types and locational damage seem to have been left out because it makes things to complicated... though now that I think about it I heard that different turrets are better at damaging different types. I dont know if thats just rate of fire and tracking speed, it might be ammo type though.

hmm, I didnt actually answer any questions there did I. I suggest you search the idea's forum for the answer to your questions.

Grendel · July 2002

Because all units in an RTS use the same AI more or less (move within range, fire) and always hit (again more or less) that style of gameplay NEEDS target specific weaponry in order to add depth and playability.

In NS the units are real people and so can be expected to use their weapon to its best advantage. Whilst damage levels are largely fixed for the weapons, it is obviously easier to hit a small, fast moving target with a shotgun than it is with a rifle. A larger target may be better dealt with by a heavier weapon and so on. Various weapons have various characteristics that make them more useful in certain circumstances than others.

What is clear is that just like in an RTS, you will generally have more success if you mix and match. This means that marines REALLY need to stick together to be able to work effectively.

e.g.

1 <img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/asrifle.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':asrifle:'> Vs 1 <img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tiny.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':tiny:'> = <img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':('> Marine

Dekker · July 2002

1 <img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/asrifle.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':asrifle:'> Vs 1 <img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tiny.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':tiny:'> = Marine <img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tiny.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':tiny:'> isnt always right, it depends also on skill of the marien and the circumstances such ads a upper position, which is pretty necessary, and i think the the weapons are good for different types of aliens, lety say it that way,just try killing a lvl5 which runs towards ja with a pistol, and try to do it with a hmg, i think the chance to survive is much bigger with it , at least if there still isnt a realy big chance indeed <img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'>

Moleculor · July 2002

Sorry, this isn't a weapons or realism mod.

And if you come near me with hostile intent, Bob will eviscerate you and -eat- various appendages of yours.

And yeah, Dekker is completely right about a single marine being able to take down a level five... I've done it, actually. Did it last playtest.

coil · July 2002

I killed 3! <img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'>

Sgt_X · July 2002

Now with
<img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/asrifle.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':asrifle:'>
<img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/asrifle.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':asrifle:'> <img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tiny.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':tiny:'>
<img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/asrifle.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':asrifle:'>

with all marine having shotties and HMGs then they've got a chance.

Unknown · July 2002

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (coil @ July 31 2002,08:14)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I killed 3! <img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Meanie! <img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':('>

Darkness · July 2002

humm, the fact that a single marine can kill a lev5 is to me quite dumb, there had to be atleast 2 marines, and thats barely killing it, but 1 marine? come on. its the aliens biggest meanes assaulter, and he gets killed by 1 marine now i will NEver ever play that class

now think of what the leet players out there can achieve alone...

Surge · July 2002

What the maker of this topic means is that will some weapons be able to penetrate the Tiny's armor? I remember, in Gloom, some of the aliens' armor had a chance of deflecting a bullet completely.

BTW, I brought this up in another topic, you thief! <img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'>

SentrySteve · July 2002

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (Longtooth @ July 31 2002,00:59)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">IF one more person tells me its not a weapons mod I will tear thier arms off and beat them to death with them. The question I asked is important to gameplay and I think would be a nice touch. If you don't care about the topic X don't post in it.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Woo, simma dah nah! Think about it, if everyone tells you this is not a weapons mod then guess what - there's a good chance that this is not a weapons mod. I thought your question was 100% about the weapons. I dont think 'some weapons are better than others.' I think some weapons are better at killing other things than another weapon. IE - the Nade launcher might be a better choice when going agaist a lvl4/5 instead of the LMG. And like wise, the LMG might be better for attacking a Lvl1 instead of the nade launcher. (I dont know the blast range of the nade lacunher, so I dunno if that is true or not.)

Moleculor · July 2002

Well, realize with one marine killing a level five, it's in a still as yet not-completely balanced game. In the finished game a lone marine in the right spots and with a -ton- of ammo could still take out a level five, it just won't be as easy.

But anywho, all marine weapons affect all aliens the same, dealing out the same damage to each, as long as they have the same upgrades.

Longtooth · July 2002

Steve, I realize that its not a weapon MOD but my question wasnt "What is the official model name for the LMG and what is its manafacturer and its barrel grove count" my question actually concerned gameplay. Just because a weapon name was included in the question dosen't mean I think it is a weapon MOD.

Insane · July 2002

What you're asking is are there certain weapons that will work against certain foes. Seems like a weapons-related question to me.

Diogenes_Dog · July 2002

"Not a weapons mod" is kind of a meaningless phrase when you apply it to ALL weapons questions. Different weapons have different gameplay. That's all there is to it. If you're going to be shutting down people who have legitimate questions about how weapons work without giving a good reason, then you might as well be saying "NS isn't a gameplay mod". :(

Btw, before ppl jump on me, the key part is "without giving a good reason". Keep that in mind when replying.

-dio

horror_kid · July 2002

I would venture to guess that a single marine taking down a full-health lvl. 5 doesn't happen frequently. Plus terrain and positioning can make a huge difference in any battle. Notice that no-one said that the lvl. 5's they took down were fully armored on level ground. A marine who is located strategically should be able to take down a lvl. 5 considering the fact that, I believe, lvl. 5's have no projectile weapons.

Longtooth · July 2002

Thank you for the support dog, that is exactly what I am talking about it seems like some people try to shut down any question with the word gun in it by saying "Its not a gun mod" it is not like I asked "what is the relative air speed velocity of an LMG and its exact unloaded weight" I asked a question that concerned gameplay, and I think horror_kid posted in the wrong topic I do not see how his reply fits into this........

Rico1 · August 2002

He was replying to Moleculor and the other guys who asked about 1 marine taking down a level 5. Personally, the 1st thing im gonna try to do when NS is released is jump on top of a lvl 5 and knife it in the head like 1000 times, of course im gonna take a screenie of that...

Anyways, back on topic. I think that larger aliens should take less damage from lower level weapons, however, i think that since the lvl 5 has considerably more health than a lvl 1 the weapons already have that kind of effectivity, making the idea of different ammo types somewhat redundant (not adding anything new to gameplay/strategies)

Longtooth · August 2002

I am getting rather tired of people bringing up the idea of a lone marine bringing down a lvl5 it is getting quite redundant.

Legionnaired · August 2002

Rico nailed it head on.

I too would like to knife kill a level 5, just once, that would make me feel sooooo s3hxy!

BTW: Why the hell aren't you using that avatar I made you rico?

humbaba · August 2002

O.K., Im just gonna bury this whole "single marie killing lvl 5" thing once and for all. First of all, positioning is a huge thing. A person swimming in the water with a harpoon gun tries to kill a shark, he gets eaten. A person is in a shark cage. He can poke the silly thing with impunity. The thing is, the position a marime must be in in order to eliminate a level 5 is one that is raised, and most raised areas require crouching. Also, In order for a marine to kill a level 5 alone, he must probobly remain fixated on the level 5. Th very position that is advantageous for killing lvl 5s is vulnerable to the other classes. A marien trapped on a raised area has no where to run or back away to. A marine that has no where to run or back into is a marine who will be eaten by a bob, spiked by a lvl 3, or acid rocketed by a lvl 4.
As long as a lvl 5 has at least 1 lvl 1, he needn't fear about such evil things as hiding in vents with shottys.
Also, it is worth noting that the game is still being balanced, so My advice is to trust flay and know that he will prevent anything that might infringe on the spirit of NS.

Freemantle · August 2002

<a href="http://www.natural-selection.org/cgi-bin/ikonboard/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=5;t=4438;hl=new;st=10" target="_blank">Freemantle's Thoughts</a>

Rico1 · August 2002

Heh, ill add it tomorrow dont worry legion <img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'> thnx for the avatar <img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'>

Armor piercing

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