The Jetpack Is Far Too Underused.

ProtomanProtoman Join Date: 2003-08-09 Member: 19291Members
edited August 2003 in NS General Discussion
<div class="IPBDescription">Many marines have lost because of this.</div> Finding a commander who will build jetpacks is rare. As a result, I find most players don't even know what to do with a jetpack once they get it.

They don't understand that the jetpack's defensive strength lies in keeping the enemy away from you. It is hands down the best counter to the slow moving and ground based onus.


When most people get a jetpack, they are so foriegn to it's use that they think it's only good for getting into vents!

NO! The jetpack, in the hands of a skilled player, can increase the lifespan of a marine by 10 fold.

Not only can you keep the enemy at guns length when fighting, but you can make a quick escape when needed.



People think you need heavy armor to attack bases, but this is not true.

A couple of grenade launching jetpack marines can make short work of defenses, and if an enemy shows up they can run to cover instead of being forced to try fighting a close range battle with a grenade launcher.

Even with heavy armor, you often end up being forced to use siege weapons anyway.
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Comments

  • Pr0phecyPr0phecy Join Date: 2002-04-04 Member: 381Members
    edited August 2003
    Protoman i agree with you...But these days people are for raw power and are determined to win,and JP with 50 armor wont get you far with oc's with the chamber support,they shoot 2 damn fast for the jp'er to escape...thats why they get HA,JP is my favorite of the 2 because it gives me unlimited mobility...But for some reason i find it short :| it dosent get me far...Its just enough to get me on certain spots on the map so onos wont eat me when its chasing me.Jetpack was good in 1.0x because of the fps issues where you could fly the beat all the time..And i hope it does make a comeback <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> But for now,

    Victory > HA
  • TaiDaisharTaiDaishar Join Date: 2003-08-11 Member: 19417Members
    So true...

    Mainly I don't use Jetpacks BECAUSE most players seem to be JP illitirate now!
  • acer_r1acer_r1 Join Date: 2003-03-11 Member: 14397Banned
    plus spores hurt you which=teh suck
  • ProtomanProtoman Join Date: 2003-08-09 Member: 19291Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->But these days people are for raw power and are determined to win,and JP with 50 armor wont get you far with oc's with the chamber support,they shoot 2 damn fast for the jp'er to escape...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    That is why you don't rush headlong into the hive and start blasting away.

    Another problem is that people think there is only one way to kill a hive.


    Marines have OPTIONS. They can siege the base. They can grenade it. Or they can brute force it.

    I prefer the first two methods myself, as they can garner more consistant results.
  • ProtomanProtoman Join Date: 2003-08-09 Member: 19291Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->plus spores hurt you which=teh suck
    <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    It's difficult to hit a jetpacking marine with spores when he is in a large area using all three dimensions of manuver. The marine will kill the lerk with an HMG before the lerk gets him.



    Besides, lerks aren't that common. The aliens all expect you to go heavy armor anyway, so they will be saving up for onus and getting ready to devour.
  • SnidelySnidely Join Date: 2003-02-04 Member: 13098Members
    edited August 2003
    The trouble is that JPs aren't that good against skulks, and you can bet your hiney that as soon as you strap a JP on, you'll run into a skulk. :/

    I agree that they're underestimated, especially shotty JPs. But they're not as valuable as HAs because HAs tend to stick together in order to get welded; give a guy a JP and he'll rambo.
  • MarqMarq Join Date: 2003-08-07 Member: 19153Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The trouble is that JPs aren't that good against skulks, and you can bet your hiney that as soon as you strap a JP on, you'll run into a skulk. :/ <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I don't agree with this at all.

    Marines with jet-packs arent that good for base seiging, but they make perfect assassins for when you want to rake in rescorces by constantly killing skulks/lerks/gorge. They can be a real nusiance to lower class aliens, and oni r just flat out useless against them...unless they run out of fuel lol.

    As a commander I personally prefer heavy armor when it comes to base seiging and keeping them fighting at enemy teritory. Why? Give em welders and they're nearly invincible. Every team I've commanded that won all had heavy armor and welders, but I also gave jetpacks to the ones who requested them and had THEM raking me in some credits off of newb skulk killz.

    I agree with protoguy... everyone should know the usefullness of jetpacks. I don't care how bad it is right now. Just let them learn and everything will get better.
  • ProtomanProtoman Join Date: 2003-08-09 Member: 19291Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The trouble is that JPs aren't that good against skulks, and you can bet your hiney that as soon as you strap a JP on, you'll run into a skulk. :/
    <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Jetpacks kick the **** of skulks! If you are getting killed by skulks then you aren't using your jetpack effectively.


    <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->But they're not as valuable as HAs because HAs tend to stick together in order to get welded; give a guy a JP and he'll rambo. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    No they won't. Inexperienced players will rambo in anything, JP's not being exclusive.

    When you get a group of marines who know how to use the JP, they stick together just as good as any other group of marines so that they can use their combined firepower to take **** down.
  • MarqMarq Join Date: 2003-08-07 Member: 19153Members
    The thing I like to do the most as a marine is go rambo and get as many kills as I can in order to get resorces for the commander to use at his disposal. Jetpacks kick **** at this... if your a pro you can be a prime killing machine and do this.

    Hmm...I guess snidely isn't having much luck killing skulks at all...gl to him.( I just had to mention this because I find it so amusing that he'd say something like that.)
  • oooooo Join Date: 2003-03-19 Member: 14709Members
    Yeah, everyone thinks that they need 290 Armour to take down a hive.

    Jetpack+Shotty=Dead Onos
  • TaiDaisharTaiDaishar Join Date: 2003-08-11 Member: 19417Members
    You forget the part in which the player is knowledgable with using Jetpack, something pretty rare on 2.0.
  • esunaesuna Rock Bottom Join Date: 2003-04-03 Member: 15175Members, Constellation
    edited August 2003
    The thing a lot of you are bringing up is that people can't control the JP. If you're new to NS with version 2, let me clue you in. The JP of old (1.0) was massive amounts of fun, you had total control, amazing flight capabilities and, in the right hands, the ability to hover for up to 4 minutes or so with a good fps. Nowadays the JP <b>is</b> crap, as soon as you take off you begin your descent, in-flight air control is minimal (even in a skilled players hands) and in short, the 2.0 jetpack has minimal control for the player to actually control, in comparison to the old one.

    I'm not saying that the jetpacks are that bad, just nobody <b>wants</b> to use them, compared to their former glory they're useless jump packs and most marines will take some HA rather than the JP.
  • sejsej Join Date: 2003-01-19 Member: 12488Members
    maps like lost with tight corridors which discourage jetpacking are far too common.
  • UltimaGeckoUltimaGecko hates endnotes Join Date: 2003-05-14 Member: 16320Members
    It's more fun to eat HA marines than JPers ....you usually have to parasite them out of the sky...until they run out of fuel...then it's "Jump and Devour the head!" time.

    What happened to the 'Skulk bite wont block the players view anymore' change anyway...oh well.



    Listening to: Nothing
  • HAMBoneHAMBone Probably the best Commander Join Date: 2003-04-02 Member: 15139Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
    We (our clan) use jetpacks almost every single game and have never used HA.
  • BogglesteinskyBogglesteinsky Join Date: 2002-12-24 Member: 11488Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--Protoman+Aug 12 2003, 09:39 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Protoman @ Aug 12 2003, 09:39 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->plus spores hurt you which=teh suck
    <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    It's difficult to hit a jetpacking marine with spores when he is in a large area using all three dimensions of manuver. The marine will kill the lerk with an HMG before the lerk gets him.



    Besides, lerks aren't that common. The aliens all expect you to go heavy armor anyway, so they will be saving up for onus and getting ready to devour. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    youd better start praying you dont meet me in a dark hive room then...
  • QuaunautQuaunaut The longest seven days in history... Join Date: 2003-03-21 Member: 14759Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
    I don't wanna sound like a broken record, but...

    Jetpacks aren't gonna get used until some people actually get GOOD with them.

    And no, fps based Jetpacks aren't gonna make a comeback. EVER. If they do, they're gonna have a community hating them a lot, because while there are a lot of people that can do 99.9 fps in game, there is about 5-10x MORE people who go through 20-80fps. If they took it out, the game would be unfair to the guy who is already shafted out of playing newer games. And don't just say "Well, get a new computer!" because you sound REALLY stupid when saying that. Money DOES matter to some people and I'm willing to guess that over half of NS' players are younger than 16(sadly), and don't have a job.

    I just think jetpacks should stay the way they are, with a bit more added, like maybe a MUCH better flight model. But that'd be really hard to code, so...
  • Crunchy1Crunchy1 Join Date: 2003-08-11 Member: 19454Members
    hambone,
    is it actually POSSIBLE to win a marine game without either HA or med/ammo spamming?
  • sekdarsekdar Join Date: 2002-11-21 Member: 9564Members
    <!--QuoteBegin---Crunchy-+Aug 12 2003, 08:34 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (-Crunchy- @ Aug 12 2003, 08:34 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> hambone,
    is it actually POSSIBLE to win a marine game without either HA or med/ammo spamming? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    shotgun rush.



    anyways, jetpack has become a more situational use weapon rather than the be-all-end-all to combat.

    giving 1 man a JP and an HMG is still one of the greatest flanking/feint maneuvers possible. send your main force to attack one hive, and send the JP to kill another. or send the JP to feint an attack on one hive and THEN send your main force to another while their forces are chasing down the jetbo.

    JP requires skill, individual foresight for where to land and takeoff, and situational awareness. it has a bigger learning curve now <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
  • stubbystubby Join Date: 2003-08-11 Member: 19416Members
    Jps aren't used anymore simply because they don't have the same amount of power and are much harder to control in 2.0. Its a lot easier to be in a group of heavies with a lot of welders, so people stick with that.
  • CutterJoeCutterJoe Join Date: 2002-12-30 Member: 11594Members, Constellation
    Most people are still learing 2.0 and with the jps being one of the hardest peices of equipment to learn for marines they just stick with what they know.
  • woodwood Join Date: 2003-08-06 Member: 19065Members
    Jps used to be FLIGHTpacks. Which is why they were much more powerful back then. Right now its about right, they give the Rines abit of extra mobility without the infinate Superman thing.
  • Juchel_ZeroJuchel_Zero Join Date: 2003-07-14 Member: 18155Members
    I'm happy we don't have 1.0x jps because as an alien I don't see jps/hmgs.
    I like 2.0 jumpacks because even through its not as powerfull when in flight, on take off you have quite a boost. Please remember that you no longer take fall damage in 2.0.

    For short, you must use it like a kangaroo would.
  • HAMBoneHAMBone Probably the best Commander Join Date: 2003-04-02 Member: 15139Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
    <!--QuoteBegin---Crunchy-+Aug 12 2003, 08:34 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (-Crunchy- @ Aug 12 2003, 08:34 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> hambone,
    is it actually POSSIBLE to win a marine game without either HA or med/ammo spamming? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Well, "med/ammo spamming" as you call it is a necessary skill for a commander throughout the game, IMO the most valuable skill a commander can have(I don't mean carpeting the floor, I mean quick, accurate medpacks).

    However, I find Jetpacks to be very good in clan games when the marines know how to use them. We only went HA once when 2.0 first came out and we ended up losing that game. In pub games I havent seen jetpacks used well, but thats mainly because people don't understand how to use them yet. Think of them as jump packs, you can move forward, and more importantly, backward, very quickly. Great for battling just about every type of unit and attacking hives, but you must be cautious, and stick together, and it is important that you have a commander who can bring you back to full health if someone manages to get a bite off.
  • Nemesis_ZeroNemesis_Zero Old European Join Date: 2002-01-25 Member: 75Members, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Constellation
    Note that HAMBONE is head of one of the most successful clans of 1.04. Believe me as someone who ended up as a smear on the wall repeatedly while playing them: They know how to use their equipment.
  • TickTockTickTock Join Date: 2002-05-13 Member: 608Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--Nemesis Zero+Aug 12 2003, 03:25 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nemesis Zero @ Aug 12 2003, 03:25 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Believe me as someone who ended up as a smear on the wall repeatedly while playing them: They know how to use their equipment. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Kinky....
  • Nemesis_ZeroNemesis_Zero Old European Join Date: 2002-01-25 Member: 75Members, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Constellation
    <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
  • HAMBoneHAMBone Probably the best Commander Join Date: 2003-04-02 Member: 15139Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
    edited August 2003
    I just worry about making Jetpacks any better than they already are(they are very good). Clans can already use them with success, so if they are made better for pub play, then they will probably become overpowered in clan play, which they are not right now. I'd rather just give pubbers the 2-3 months they'll need to figure it out. The pubbers may never be able to use them as well as a top player but they aren't as bad as you may think.

    Consider them the fade of the marine team, at first glance they dont seem that great and, they take some skill to do well, but once you master them, they can be very powerful.

    Also note that we tend to make weapons and armor upgrades our highest priority, so you probably wont see anyone flying through the air until we have at least 3-2 upgrades and the 3rd armor going. It is possible, I suppose, that we could do a better job with HA, but there's just something about jetpacks we all love.
  • RuneGreyRuneGrey Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 4844Members
    Jetpacks still remain a personal favorite when it comes to flanking actions - give me a jetpack and a shottie, and I'll have killed any undefended alien RTs that I can find. (11 shots or so from a shottie, and its all over. Time to call the commander.) And of course the famous 'stick to the ceiling and empty your clip into that silly Onos' tactic which sends the Onos back to the have and you on your merry way...

    Just be creative in using jetpacks, and don't be afraid to ask for them so you CAN learn on them. If we saw jetpacks more often, we'd have marines winning more games, simply because of the greater range of options you have.
  • grafgraverkegrafgraverke Join Date: 2003-08-09 Member: 19246Members
    Jetpacks are strategically such a big asset that not giving them to at least one person is downright criminal towards your team

    Not only does it give mobility, but that mobility can be (ab)used to get to some interesting spot from which taking out the hive and fending off Aliens becomes rather easy.

    Not getting deeper into this as I'd h8 to become some of them tactics put to effect in the majority of games, primarily Alien player myself! <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo-->
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