Guys, how frelling stupid is it to say '..this was never intented'. Did YOU design the game ?
total crap. such comments est un stupeedo. I advocate ppl use a small measure of verifyiable argument rather than 13yr old mouth-farting.
(its the rules i start every post with a ****)
However i agree with most ppl that it makes no sense for the software to allow a gl user to reload in this silly fashion, when in every other context of the game the gl is reloaded in a <i>realistic</i> fashion. This doesn't mean that the current 'exploit' wasn't intentional- logical/intuitive gameplay gives way to artificial mechanics all the time so that the gameplay overall is enjoyable. This is apparent for pretty much every game ever developed.
Just as a side issue (with all the moaning about exploits)- is it exploitational to have a faster PC, or spend more time practising, or to have grown from superior gametes with faster reflexes and basicly be a superior human specimen and therefor better equipped to win? Is that an unfair advantage? I have a monitor with hardware overbright for example... (dvd playback), and a 150 IQ. U gonna ban me now ?
Nope, cos gaming is as right-wing as everyhting else: running, fighting, doing spelling tests....
very very board people with nothing else to do but complain about stupid things....
i know the ns team needs people to tell them about the bugs n stuff so they cant fix em.. but this is just retarded. seriously.
<!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> BANG BANG jOOZ!
SinSpawnHarbinger of SufferingJoin Date: 2002-11-12Member: 8359Members
The GL is the only weapon that can do this, it doesnt work with the lmg/HMGs maybe cause the GL has a second delay and it reloads during that second..and thats why lmgs can't hmmmm...
I don't think it is a valid tatic, especially when it is used to prolong a useless stalemate. However, it is hardly an exploit. Every weapon reloads the same, but the GL gets the greatest benefit from it. If there was a simple solution to it, it surely would have been fixed by now. The 1.04 method didnt work and apparently, it's not a simple thing to fix. All we can do for the time being is not add to the problem by doing it ourselves.
i know nothing of the object model Flayra has used, but I imagine this to be a very simple fix as (juding by the current product) he appears to know his code.
solution- ammo taken from the armoury goes straight into the players ammo inventory, NOT into the gun. to reload the gun... you have to reload the gun.
obvious problem with that i suupose in sat their at the armoury filling up ur stash, to then have to reload ur gun and then fill ur stash up again.
<!--QuoteBegin--Deathjester+Aug 13 2003, 09:50 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Deathjester @ Aug 13 2003, 09:50 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> solution- ammo taken from the armoury goes straight into the players ammo inventory, NOT into the gun. to reload the gun... you have to reload the gun.
obvious problem with that i suupose in sat their at the armoury filling up ur stash, to then have to reload ur gun and then fill ur stash up again. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> This is how it worked in 1.04 and it was thoroughly annoying. I'm sure the current state is only a temp fix.
EpidemicDark Force GorgeJoin Date: 2003-06-29Member: 17781Members
<!--QuoteBegin--Majin+Aug 13 2003, 08:54 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Majin @ Aug 13 2003, 08:54 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> nade Spam, while not an explote is a poor tactic. Its only really done because reloading with the GL takes so long!
I have done it a few times, 1 fade and your done for! Blink in and swipe! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> OKAY OKAY, it <b>might</b> (not likely) be possible for a suicide fade, but someone else will just pick the weapon up
just bring back the old bullets from army goes into reserves rather than clip first. that doesnt really make sense anyway, how do they get in there its magical. Really it gets rid of the main disadvantage of having a gun. which simply is u gotta reload it cant go forever. Look HMG, when ur defending at base u dont ever really have to reload.
matsoMaster of PatchesJoin Date: 2002-11-05Member: 7000Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Squad Five Gold, Reinforced - Shadow, NS2 Community Developer
It should be pointed out that when the load-directly-into-the weapon was reinstated, the marine weapons was not being dropped. Thus, at the time, getting rid of that restriction made perfect sense, as GL spamming don't work if the GL can be killed by killing the wielder.
Late in the beta process, marines started dropping weapons again (and the price was increased).
Thus, saying that GL-spamming from an armory is INTENDED is far from clear. However, fixing it has low priority right now, as it really doesn't affect balance much. It just drags out the game needlessly (and sometimes allows the marines to turn a defeat into a pyrric victory as the PO'ed aliens quit in disgust).
I really don't know how effective the GL spam is. I was playing a game last night where 3 GLs spammed the area. The problem was, they couldn't kill Onos outright, so the aliens just waited until everyone was Onos, ran in, killing the GLs and proceeded to wipe out the base. Since th GL is no where near as effective away from the armory, all the aliens had to do was pick off those marines who dared venture from the base. after a bit, they had all the res they needed to fully whomp the marines.
The fix for this was to make the armory give you spare clips rather than fill your gun first. This caused other issues and in general was really annoying. I'm glad they took it back out.
It's not like there is no way to stop GL'ers. They are most effective against gorges (slow) and onos (hard to miss). Lerks aren't all that effective, but if they can get in a place to gas from they help. The best methods are using fades to take out the GL'ers, then rush in with the Onos/gorge, or a constant stream of xenocide.
The fade plan doesn't work when there are too many turrets or HMG marines in the base. As for the turret farms (a real one, with massive numbers of turrets), that's a seperate issue. If that is fixed, the biggest problem will be HMGs, but if the marines can afford all this weaponry, why aren't they out killing things like your hive? Otherwise, blink is a good way to avoid taking most of the grenade damage.
Skulks with xenocide also work wonderfully. Leap in and explode next to the armory. You will likely kill the spammy marines, since they are obviously going to be standing right there, plus when the armory goes down, no more spam! Rush in and cause havok. This only has problems if you don't have a third hive, but how often does it happen that the marines have a really fortified base with GL spam that isn't their main? Being faced with GL spam at, say, a siege location with 4 turrets, a couple marines, and a GL can still be taken out using traditional means. GL spam is only really effective when backed up by lots of turrets or loads of HMGs. Quite frankly, if there are loads of HMGs there, the GL is the least of your problems.
<!--QuoteBegin--taboofires+Aug 13 2003, 11:17 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (taboofires @ Aug 13 2003, 11:17 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The fix for this was to make the armory give you spare clips rather than fill your gun first. This caused other issues and in general was really annoying. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Just curious, but what were the issues? This sounds like a perfectly reasonable solution as well as one that makes sense.. unless somehow the armory manages to transport nanites directly into your clip.. and if it can do that, why bother with a clip at all, just have your ammo automatically form in the chamber as you need them.
i guess im just too logical to get upset about things that already work in an intuitive way....
im glad they made it illogical so that i coudl suddenly get upset about it <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> maybe you made too many assumptions about your environment. This can help and hinder; I'd rather say hinder for your case (where's the evil smiley)
anyhow I too have a 150 IQ, and I'm sure Flayra's is also, if not more, as well as other people. So now now, let's not be trying to throw our weight around.
EpidemicDark Force GorgeJoin Date: 2003-06-29Member: 17781Members
<!--QuoteBegin--cybrangl+Aug 13 2003, 10:28 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (cybrangl @ Aug 13 2003, 10:28 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I really don't know how effective the GL spam is. I was playing a game last night where 3 GLs spammed the area. The problem was, they couldn't kill Onos outright, so the aliens just waited until everyone was Onos, ran in, killing the GLs and proceeded to wipe out the base. Since th GL is no where near as effective away from the armory, all the aliens had to do was pick off those marines who dared venture from the base. after a bit, they had all the res they needed to fully whomp the marines. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Not if they are protected/blocked by turrets
I personally think that the people who are saying it should be fixed and people who have seen it being done, who don't like it being exploited! People who are saying it shouldn't are blatently obvious they use it in their game to win more effectively!
If people who don't think it's an exploit keep saying no, then why? If you stand at the armoury and flash your flashlight over and over again, you get ammo quicker (exploit). If you have a GL and are able to obtain a reload in 1 second rather than 8 seconds then YOU ARE exploiting the game!
We had a game yesterday where the spam of 3 gls gave us enough time (maybe 30 minutes) to equip everyone with HA/hmg/shotty/gl and start a comeback. Poor strategy but it worked. btw, the alien tried everything, they attacked with 6 onos, digested 2 gl but we killed them all...
While they are at it they could fix the abort reload aswell... <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> .......................... <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> .......... <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Kwil+Aug 13 2003, 05:23 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Kwil @ Aug 13 2003, 05:23 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--taboofires+Aug 13 2003, 11:17 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (taboofires @ Aug 13 2003, 11:17 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The fix for this was to make the armory give you spare clips rather than fill your gun first. This caused other issues and in general was really annoying. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Just curious, but what were the issues? This sounds like a perfectly reasonable solution as well as one that makes sense.. unless somehow the armory manages to transport nanites directly into your clip.. and if it can do that, why bother with a clip at all, just have your ammo automatically form in the chamber as you need them. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> all i can think of was, it was annoying cos when u were marines u were used to having ammo put into the clip first meaning u didnt really have to reload (at base). well it was annoying, i remember it. been used to getting bullets in clips, now u had to get ammo from army then reload then get rest of ammo. looks like the marines got their way some how and had it so they didnt have to reload at base.
<!--QuoteBegin--matso42+Aug 13 2003, 09:36 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (matso42 @ Aug 13 2003, 09:36 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> It should be pointed out that when the load-directly-into-the weapon was reinstated, the marine weapons was not being dropped. Thus, at the time, getting rid of that restriction made perfect sense, as GL spamming don't work if the GL can be killed by killing the wielder.
Late in the beta process, marines started dropping weapons again (and the price was increased).
Thus, saying that GL-spamming from an armory is INTENDED is far from clear. However, fixing it has low priority right now, as it really doesn't affect balance much. It just drags out the game needlessly (and sometimes allows the marines to turn a defeat into a pyrric victory as the PO'ed aliens quit in disgust). <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> actually it was that way, way before we tested guns not being dropped.
I have read a few posts and ppl seem to think this is fixable by making the armory put rnds in your spare nades first and not your current clip. This wont solve anything becasue the only good way to nade spam is to have a full set of nades (30) any way, then stand behind the armory and fire over it, while pressing the use key.
When you do it like that, you already have full spare nades and you just keep firing 1 nade every second again and again never running out! Each time you fire a nade a new one takes it place.
The ppl who stand near the Armory and then move back and forth, also already have a full set of nades (30) (most times) that allows them to fire 3 of the 4 in the shambers and then reload back to 4 in 1 second, instead of the 8 seconds it takes to do it normally.
<!--QuoteBegin--Wile E Coyote+Aug 12 2003, 07:57 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Wile E Coyote @ Aug 12 2003, 07:57 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> By all means this is an exploit. The grenade launcher was never intended to be able to fire like that. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> So some how Flayra accidentally coded this in, the beta testers failed to report this, or after reading a report of this <b>Exploit</b> Flayra failed to fix it? How do you know what is intentional and not? You have an opinion, one that you are perfectly welcome to have, but that doesn't make youu right. There is nothing that would lead <b>Any One</b> to believe this is an exploit. Sure it is lame, and I discourage its use 99% of the time, but this is no exploit.
One way you could explain it is a grenade machine gun. In combat training I was given a crash course in the use of the Mk. 19 Grenade Launcher. Every time you pull the trigger a grenade shoots out, so that a person could shoot a huge number of nades in no time at all. Just think of it as the marine attaching the grenade launcher to a chain of ammunition from the armory. Sure it makes him immobile, but as Coyote (and others) stated earlier, this is still quiet useful.
Comments
Grenade spams are pretty g.h.e.y and just make the end game drag on.
total crap. such comments est un stupeedo. I advocate ppl use a small measure of verifyiable argument rather than 13yr old mouth-farting.
(its the rules i start every post with a ****)
However i agree with most ppl that it makes no sense for the software to allow a gl user to reload in this silly fashion, when in every other context of the game the gl is reloaded in a <i>realistic</i> fashion. This doesn't mean that the current 'exploit' wasn't intentional- logical/intuitive gameplay gives way to artificial mechanics all the time so that the gameplay overall is enjoyable. This is apparent for pretty much every game ever developed.
Just as a side issue (with all the moaning about exploits)- is it exploitational to have a faster PC, or spend more time practising, or to have grown from superior gametes with faster reflexes and basicly be a superior human specimen and therefor better equipped to win? Is that an unfair advantage? I have a monitor with hardware overbright for example... (dvd playback), and a 150 IQ. U gonna ban me now ?
Nope, cos gaming is as right-wing as everyhting else: running, fighting, doing spelling tests....
i know the ns team needs people to tell them about the bugs n stuff so they cant fix em.. but this is just retarded. seriously.
<!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> BANG BANG jOOZ!
response
dignify.
solution- ammo taken from the armoury goes straight into the players ammo inventory, NOT into the gun. to reload the gun... you have to reload the gun.
obvious problem with that i suupose in sat their at the armoury filling up ur stash, to then have to reload ur gun and then fill ur stash up again.
sounds realistic to me...
I have done it a few times, 1 fade and your done for! Blink in and swipe!
obvious problem with that i suupose in sat their at the armoury filling up ur stash, to then have to reload ur gun and then fill ur stash up again. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is how it worked in 1.04 and it was thoroughly annoying. I'm sure the current state is only a temp fix.
i never noticed.
i guess im just too logical to get upset about things that already work in an intuitive way....
im glad they made it illogical so that i coudl suddenly get upset about it
I have done it a few times, 1 fade and your done for! Blink in and swipe! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
OKAY OKAY, it <b>might</b> (not likely) be possible for a suicide fade, but someone else will just pick the weapon up
*didnt read whole thread*
Late in the beta process, marines started dropping weapons again (and the price was increased).
Thus, saying that GL-spamming from an armory is INTENDED is far from clear. However, fixing it has low priority right now, as it really doesn't affect balance much. It just drags out the game needlessly (and sometimes allows the marines to turn a defeat into a pyrric victory as the PO'ed aliens quit in disgust).
It's not like there is no way to stop GL'ers. They are most effective against gorges (slow) and onos (hard to miss). Lerks aren't all that effective, but if they can get in a place to gas from they help. The best methods are using fades to take out the GL'ers, then rush in with the Onos/gorge, or a constant stream of xenocide.
The fade plan doesn't work when there are too many turrets or HMG marines in the base. As for the turret farms (a real one, with massive numbers of turrets), that's a seperate issue. If that is fixed, the biggest problem will be HMGs, but if the marines can afford all this weaponry, why aren't they out killing things like your hive? Otherwise, blink is a good way to avoid taking most of the grenade damage.
Skulks with xenocide also work wonderfully. Leap in and explode next to the armory. You will likely kill the spammy marines, since they are obviously going to be standing right there, plus when the armory goes down, no more spam! Rush in and cause havok. This only has problems if you don't have a third hive, but how often does it happen that the marines have a really fortified base with GL spam that isn't their main? Being faced with GL spam at, say, a siege location with 4 turrets, a couple marines, and a GL can still be taken out using traditional means. GL spam is only really effective when backed up by lots of turrets or loads of HMGs. Quite frankly, if there are loads of HMGs there, the GL is the least of your problems.
Just curious, but what were the issues? This sounds like a perfectly reasonable solution as well as one that makes sense.. unless somehow the armory manages to transport nanites directly into your clip.. and if it can do that, why bother with a clip at all, just have your ammo automatically form in the chamber as you need them.
i never noticed.
i guess im just too logical to get upset about things that already work in an intuitive way....
im glad they made it illogical so that i coudl suddenly get upset about it <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
maybe you made too many assumptions about your environment. This can help and hinder; I'd rather say hinder for your case (where's the evil smiley)
anyhow I too have a 150 IQ, and I'm sure Flayra's is also, if not more, as well as other people. So now now, let's not be trying to throw our weight around.
Not if they are protected/blocked by turrets
If people who don't think it's an exploit keep saying no, then why? If you stand at the armoury and flash your flashlight over and over again, you get ammo quicker (exploit). If you have a GL and are able to obtain a reload in 1 second rather than 8 seconds then YOU ARE exploiting the game!
Just curious, but what were the issues? This sounds like a perfectly reasonable solution as well as one that makes sense.. unless somehow the armory manages to transport nanites directly into your clip.. and if it can do that, why bother with a clip at all, just have your ammo automatically form in the chamber as you need them. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
all i can think of was, it was annoying cos when u were marines u were used to having ammo put into the clip first meaning u didnt really have to reload (at base). well it was annoying, i remember it. been used to getting bullets in clips, now u had to get ammo from army then reload then get rest of ammo. looks like the marines got their way some how and had it so they didnt have to reload at base.
Late in the beta process, marines started dropping weapons again (and the price was increased).
Thus, saying that GL-spamming from an armory is INTENDED is far from clear. However, fixing it has low priority right now, as it really doesn't affect balance much. It just drags out the game needlessly (and sometimes allows the marines to turn a defeat into a pyrric victory as the PO'ed aliens quit in disgust). <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
actually it was that way, way before we tested guns not being dropped.
When you do it like that, you already have full spare nades and you just keep firing 1 nade every second again and again never running out! Each time you fire a nade a new one takes it place.
The ppl who stand near the Armory and then move back and forth, also already have a full set of nades (30) (most times) that allows them to fire 3 of the 4 in the shambers and then reload back to 4 in 1 second, instead of the 8 seconds it takes to do it normally.
<!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> So some how Flayra accidentally coded this in, the beta testers failed to report this, or after reading a report of this <b>Exploit</b> Flayra failed to fix it? How do you know what is intentional and not? You have an opinion, one that you are perfectly welcome to have, but that doesn't make youu right. There is nothing that would lead <b>Any One</b> to believe this is an exploit. Sure it is lame, and I discourage its use 99% of the time, but this is no exploit.
One way you could explain it is a grenade machine gun. In combat training I was given a crash course in the use of the Mk. 19 Grenade Launcher. Every time you pull the trigger a grenade shoots out, so that a person could shoot a huge number of nades in no time at all. Just think of it as the marine attaching the grenade launcher to a chain of ammunition from the armory. Sure it makes him immobile, but as Coyote (and others) stated earlier, this is still quiet useful.