Tired Of

RedmonkeyRedmonkey Join Date: 2002-11-10 Member: 8052Members
<div class="IPBDescription">n00bs who know nothing. M/S/D order post</div> I've been playing religiously on the Redphive's three servers since the day 2.0 was released.
The first week, week and a half, everyone was throwing down SCs (More for the nifty invisibilty of cloaking than for scent of fear). Then, after about two weeks, people tried DCs first, sometimes worked, sometimes not, and it was generally agreed upon that DCs are best left for second upgrade. Then the next week was all about the MC.
Personally, I think that on a public server, MC is the best to drop first. (Due to the unorganized nature of most public play. This says nothing about organized play or clan play--There are numerous ways to use the chamber orders)
In my opinion, one of the alien's greatest advantages is that they get res for kills. Because of this, I, and a lot of other people on the r5 servers prefer to drop MCs first. A skulk with lvl3 celerity is almost impossible to be killed by most pub play marines. They just don't have the experience or aim to hit a skulk moving at 200 mph. In the first minute, three movements dropped, and most often if you're on a large server, with say three gorges, 8-10 skulks immediately going celerity and either rushing marine spawn or securing a double res or a hive, it almost always spells easy win for aliens.
All the chambers are very useful, but you also have to be thinking ahead. If the rush doesn't work, skulks with celerity harrying marines work brilliantly, letting the gorges get out and get res and get that second hive up. With a couple skulks saving for onos, they can hit onos incredibly fast. The fastest I've hit onos is around 9-10 minutes, and I've seen someone do it almost at 8 minutes flat.
But once you get an onos, I'd rather have celerity than SoF/Cloaking. Once that second hive is up, onos with celerity/redemption should be able to win the game.
I'm more than a little **** off, because I just got called a n00b earlier today because I dropped movements right off the bat. One or two others said "Oh ****, we lose! n00b didn't drop SC!"
me: "Why is SC better? For cloaking? That draws out the game and just makes it harder on us. SoF? That's sweet, but skulks racking up res kills with celerity and parasiting every marine is a lot more efficient than hiding in ceiling corners."
They had no counter argument, but kept calling me a noob.
The people who are n00bs are the people that have no longterm strategy or foresight, and don't know how to play as a team. Had they listened to me, we would have won immediately. As it was, it only took us twenty minutes longer to win rather than winning in the first five minutes.
Has anyone else had this happen to them? Some kid with a ten or eleven year old sounding voice calling them a n00b because they didn't drop an SC first?

Comments

  • SpazmaticSpazmatic Join Date: 2003-05-10 Member: 16184Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The people who are n00bs are the people that have no longterm strategy or foresight, and don't know how to play as a team.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    No chamber is best first, it all depends on the team's strategy. Ask first, get team votes... If they want to go ambush crazy, and perhaps even do an sc-at-base trick, then dropping mc will seriously **** people off. It's a team game.
  • elchinesetouristelchinesetourist Join Date: 2003-06-29 Member: 17775Members
    actually a lot of experienced clans go MC first

    but do whatever, in the spirit of 2.0 as Flay intended

    I helped convert 1.04 players to 2.0 the day it came out - I dropped sensory and their hearts almost stopped <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
  • SilverSurfieSilverSurfie Join Date: 2003-08-12 Member: 19597Members
    edited August 2003
    i dunno man... Your assuming that the Marines are crappy shots, etc etc. Even if you are lvl3 cel Skulk you will get pwned by a good marine any day of the week. You get close enough to a Marine your pretty much guranteed the kill but lvl3 Cel isnt going to help you get extremely close to them before they light you up. (I could defend a hallway against Skulks for the entire game w/ a lmg and only die a couple of times.)

    w/ SC you can drop a SC next to their base and when they run by your already on top of them, instead of jumping around dodging the bullets trying to get them. And SoF is one of the best abilities because it tells you where the rine is if within your range therefore giving you a extremely useful aid in planning ambushes and tactics in general.

    If you cant get in range to bite what good is it? Especially for Clan play where players are crack shots, MC will NOT be a good chamber to use. You run down a hallway w/ celerity, your gonna die to that marine guarding that hallway. Unless you use leap which you need a 2nd hive and they are probably well on their way for MT or HA by then.

    Perhaps the reason you dislike the SC is because your team sucks at placing them. This is a problem i see in Pub servers, gorges arent creative w/ SC placement in general. I spend about an hour today checking out the maps for SC placement spots. Found one for double res room for this one map, it freaking owns and it will take marines a LONG time to find and kill it.
  • TarantulaTarantula Join Date: 2003-08-13 Member: 19669Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--SilverSurfie+Aug 14 2003, 12:00 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SilverSurfie @ Aug 14 2003, 12:00 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> i dunno man... Your assuming that the Marines are crappy shots, etc etc. Even if you are lvl3 cel Skulk you will get pwned by a good marine any day of the week. You get close enough to a Marine your pretty much guranteed the kill but lvl3 Cel isnt going to help you get extremely close to them before they light you up. (I could defend a hallway against Skulks for the entire game w/ a lmg and only die a couple of times.)

    w/ SC you can drop a SC next to their base and when they run by your already on top of them, instead of jumping around dodging the bullets trying to get them. And SoF is one of the best abilities because it tells you where the rine is if within your range therefore giving you a extremely useful aid in planning ambushes and tactics in general.

    If you cant get in range to bite what good is it? Especially for Clan play where players are crack shots, MC will NOT be a good chamber to use. You run down a hallway w/ celerity, your gonna die to that marine guarding that hallway. Unless you use leap which you need a 2nd hive and they are probably well on their way for MT or HA by then.

    Perhaps the reason you dislike the SC is because your team sucks at placing them. This is a problem i see in Pub servers, gorges arent creative w/ SC placement in general. I spend about an hour today checking out the maps for SC placement spots. Found one for double res room for this one map, it freaking owns and it will take marines a LONG time to find and kill it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    And you're assuming that a lvl 3 cel skulk just runs straight up the middle of the ramp straight towards the marine. I bounce all over the place, I run in spirals if the hall is fairly easy to go from wall to ceiling, and, even more preferably, I use vents and land behind the rine guarding it.

    Also, don't forget, MC gets you silence, which works even better for slipping behind that guarding marine.

    I've played a few VERY fun MSD games tonight, where we dropped 3 moves, all went stealthing around while gorges got RTs, then dropped sense, went stealthing around with SoF dropping behind all the marines. Eventually I switched teams because they were uneven, and saw half the marines constantly spining around to check for skulks behind them.
  • laggerlagger Join Date: 2002-10-31 Member: 1805Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--SilverSurfie+Aug 14 2003, 05:00 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SilverSurfie @ Aug 14 2003, 05:00 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> i dunno man... Your assuming that the Marines are crappy shots, etc etc. Even if you are lvl3 cel Skulk you will get pwned by a good marine any day of the week. You get close enough to a Marine your pretty much guranteed the kill but lvl3 Cel isnt going to help you get extremely close to them before they light you up. (I could defend a hallway against Skulks for the entire game w/ a lmg and only die a couple of times.)

    w/ SC you can drop a SC next to their base and when they run by your already on top of them, instead of jumping around dodging the bullets trying to get them. And SoF is one of the best abilities because it tells you where the rine is if within your range therefore giving you a extremely useful aid in planning ambushes and tactics in general.

    If you cant get in range to bite what good is it? Especially for Clan play where players are crack shots, MC will NOT be a good chamber to use. You run down a hallway w/ celerity, your gonna die to that marine guarding that hallway. Unless you use leap which you need a 2nd hive and they are probably well on their way for MT or HA by then.

    Perhaps the reason you dislike the SC is because your team sucks at placing them. This is a problem i see in Pub servers, gorges arent creative w/ SC placement in general. I spend about an hour today checking out the maps for SC placement spots. Found one for double res room for this one map, it freaking owns and it will take marines a LONG time to find and kill it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Clans ushally do get mc's even if the other team is a crack shot for these reasons:\

    Silence allows clan flankers to set up better ambush's universially around the map rather then forcing us to build sensory at every choke *and no you wont get them outside their main*

    Better end game upgrades for gorgs,lerks,fades,oni in combat and in the ability to run away via celerity. It is better to run then try and hide with a sensory because clans WILL scan/comm check for you.

    Passive movement upgrade of moving to newly built hives while they are under attack so they can cover more ground, and get where they are needed.
  • IxyonIxyon Join Date: 2003-08-06 Member: 19086Members
    edited August 2003
    Although I do agree that a skulk will probably get owned by a marine if that skulk runs straight the hell at him, a celerity skulk can get b-hopping like a mofo in just a few jumps. I don't think there's a corridor in any map that I can't get down in just a couple of seconds, and if I have leap I don't even get celerity cuz silence + leap + b-hop = marine death. Celerity isn't the greatest thing ever, like some people seem to believe. They just need to learn to bunny-hop. I will still advocate quick sensories on almost any map.

    And hey, I play against RED and STD people all the time. They ain't Gods. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
  • DeathPookyDeathPooky Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 3037Members
    edited August 2003
    I'm tired of people posting and saying that one order is "Teh B3st!" and all others are horrible. I enjoy sensory most because SoF really complements the playstyle I have with every type of alien evolution - mostly skulk, gorge and lerk. In addition, the sensory chamber cloak bonus has allowed me to singlehandedly hold a choke point against marines using SoF and cloak to work out how to take them down.

    However, you know what, if someone wants to drop another chamber, or does drop another chamber, that is entirely fine with me. I have won with all three first at some points. I do not care if someone drops another chamber. I do not flame them. I do not argue with them. I do not call them a newb or insult their ideas. All three can work equally well. Different orders call for different strategies, and all can be effective, depending on how the marines try to counter. You know what matters more than the chamber you put down? What the marines tech for! If you drop a sensory and they rush for obs, then you might be in more trouble. If you drop a move and they rush for shotguns (and aren't newbs) then you might be in trouble.

    So all players, old and new, keep in mind that when you starts saying "MC first is the only way!" "Sens first or we lose!" "Aw, you dumb***, you put down a DC, now we're dead!" you sound quite stupid considering this is a game where all strategies work equally and every move has its counter.
  • CioCioSanCioCioSan Join Date: 2003-08-09 Member: 19235Members
    This issue will probably never be resolved until people start realising there is a distinct style of play involved with both of them.

    Some people are patient, and they can sit and wait for the rines to come by, not see them, and keep on walkin, allowing the skulk to run in and get his kill.

    Some people are hyperactive, and they want speed speed speed so they can literally fly down corriders, dodging bullets and eating marines.

    In clan play, it depends on the style of the clan players, so saying "most experienced clans go MC first" really has no grounds for arguement.

    If you really want to become a solid, confident skulk, stop whining about which upgrade is dropped first, and learn the other style of play. The more versatile you are, the better you will be at killing marines.

    Unlike 1.04 there is no style of play that guarenties victory. 1.04 was all about Defense, Movement, Sensory, and if you had any competent players on the team, the game was over. 2.0 is a lot different, as we already know. If you convince yourself that there is only one chamber that should be dropped first, you'd better prepare yourself for a lot of arguing.

    -Cio
  • Phifth_ElementPhifth_Element Join Date: 2002-11-11 Member: 8233Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--SilverSurfie+Aug 14 2003, 12:00 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SilverSurfie @ Aug 14 2003, 12:00 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I spend about an hour today checking out the maps for SC placement spots. Found one for double res room for this one map, it freaking owns and it will take marines a LONG time to find and kill it.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Tell us where! I have found some good places but can remember right now! THIS is the power of SC! People shoudl get SoF (the best upgrade in the GAME) and then have a reliable and intelligent SC network going around the map! Now people are cloaked WHILE MOVING and can see the enemies coming from a mile off! I see it as you either do this or you become a tank and take all of the bullets for one kill! I get tons of kills with next to no damage! And with MC as the second chamber for silence....perfect kills/zero damage! No NEED for DC upgrades at all! No NEED for HEALING!
  • StoatBringerStoatBringer Join Date: 2003-06-09 Member: 17144Members, Constellation
    I prefer SC first, simply because I find it highly enjoyable to ambush marines using cloak or spore them from safety using SoF. However, if somebody drops chambers in a different order I'll just adjust my playing style (until we eventually get SC, that is).
  • RedmonkeyRedmonkey Join Date: 2002-11-10 Member: 8052Members
    Like I said in my first post, it's all down to preference of play. Each chamber has it's own strengths, but personally for a first drop on pub play, I like movement. What I'm tired of is poeple who just automatically scream that we've lost the game "Because some n00b didn't drop an sc". And on most pub servers, it's only around a third or half the team of marines that are competent shots. When I'm marine, I can usually hold off a hive spot until we slap down stuff, but I know it's damn hard to do with skulks coming at me doing 200 mph.
  • TiaxTiax Join Date: 2003-05-28 Member: 16802Members
    Actually I prefer sensory first because im an ambush player. It has nothing to do with noobness...its different play styles.

    You can drop any chamber first and ill adapt and make great use of it. With movement ill use silence, with cloak ill have a sensory network built, adn with defense ill just bolt right in and surprise the marines that fail to kill.

    From my point of view, I guess you'd be a noob because you always want the same chamber first. There are various play styles...just about any chamber now is good though everyone has favorites based on their play style.
  • captmorgancaptmorgan Join Date: 2002-12-23 Member: 11432Members
    Re-read what tiax said, it comes down to personal prefrence and style of play. I play an ambush style as slulk, thus I prefer SC's. I don't play in clan matches, so what goes on there doesnt concern me.

    having said that, I will not screw my team over and drop what chamber I prefer, forcing your personal preferred upgrade on a team is the only "n00b" thing involved in picking a first upgrade chamber.
  • Noble_FadeNoble_Fade Join Date: 2003-02-24 Member: 13931Members
    It should be written in stone that you get movement AFTER defense. I find it funny when these "elite" clanners drop movement chambers first, then the marines lock down 2 hives(which I've been seeing a lot more lately, I think they're getting smarter). Well, what do you do then hotshot? I'd like to see what an onos with only a movement upgrade is going to do. Oh that's right, a whole lot of nothing, then die. And a skulk with silence/celerity doesn't turn him into a super skulk that's invincible and can wipe out waves of marines. If you're playing against competant marines, you'll maybe get one extra kill then get gunned down. Waste of res if you ask me, getting the same upgrade and dying over and over. You hardcore clanners keep on dropping your movement first, but just remember, only a noob marine team will get owned by silenced skulks.
  • laggerlagger Join Date: 2002-10-31 Member: 1805Members
    edited August 2003
    <!--QuoteBegin--Noble Fade+Aug 14 2003, 08:45 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Noble Fade @ Aug 14 2003, 08:45 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> It should be written in stone that you get movement AFTER defense. I find it funny when these "elite" clanners drop movement chambers first, then the marines lock down 2 hives(which I've been seeing a lot more lately, I think they're getting smarter). Well, what do you do then hotshot? I'd like to see what an onos with only a movement upgrade is going to do. Oh that's right, a whole lot of nothing, then die. And a skulk with silence/celerity doesn't turn him into a super skulk that's invincible and can wipe out waves of marines. If you're playing against competant marines, you'll maybe get one extra kill then get gunned down. Waste of res if you ask me, getting the same upgrade and dying over and over. You hardcore clanners keep on dropping your movement first, but just remember, only a noob marine team will get owned by silenced skulks. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Want a clan match? #er @ gamesnet (Pm Erilane) / #findnsscrim @ gamesnet (For anyother clan)

    The record for a second hive is under two minutes, if you can lock both hives withen a minute props to you. But, movement down first is a pressure move. It allows much more assualting on marine bases/movements which will make it damn near impossible for you to lock two hives unless you totally outclass us in fps skill/tactics.
  • Noble_FadeNoble_Fade Join Date: 2003-02-24 Member: 13931Members
    I really couldn't give a rats **** about clan play, I play only on pubs, where not everyone is a grand master silenced skulk, which is why I don't like it when the one hardcore clanner drops a movement and then expects the aliens to win indefinately. So you can stop waving your **** at me, go find some other clanners to harass.
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