Ns's Fatal Flaw

GNUKeyser_Soze · August 2003

<div class="IPBDescription">what will kill NS</div> First off, I love this game. period. The idea, artwork, levels, all of it.

But it has a fatal flaw that will kill it deader than a marine in an onos's belly.

People F4'ing as soon as the tide turns against them.

Today alone I've seen it 5 times where the loosing team (marine and alien) starts loosing players early on and it just gets worse until 2 or 3 people are trying to hold off 9 or 10.

The fact is that NS 2.0 is balanced enough that a good team can come back from behind if everyone works together. But not if people leave the team and hang out in the ready room waiting for those who are left to be demolished. And I'm not talking about teams that have obviously lost - just ones that aren't dominating with the first 15 minutes.

I'm open to suggestion as to how to prevent this - but until people stop playing for the quick win I'll only play NS on lan with my frinds who I can trust to stick it out until the bloody end.

Greg
aka [GNU]Keyser_Soze
<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif'>

Protoman · August 2003

I play on a server that disabled F4 and it's a new game.

Everyone picks thier side, and stays there for the whole match.

The teams stay even, and there are no quitters.

CommunistWithAGun · August 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> ([GNU]Keyser_Soze @ Aug 13 2003, 05:55 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> First off, I love this game. period. The idea, artwork, levels, all of it.

But it has a fatal flaw that will kill it deader than a marine in an onos's belly.

People F4'ing as soon as the tide turns against them.

Today alone I've seen it 5 times where the loosing team (marine and alien) starts loosing players early on and it just gets worse until 2 or 3 people are trying to hold off 9 or 10.

The fact is that NS 2.0 is balanced enough that a good team can come back from behind if everyone works together. But not if people leave the team and hang out in the ready room waiting for those who are left to be demolished. And I'm not talking about teams that have obviously lost - just ones that aren't dominating with the first 15 minutes.

I'm open to suggestion as to how to prevent this - but until people stop playing for the quick win I'll only play NS on lan with my frinds who I can trust to stick it out until the bloody end.

Greg
aka [GNU]Keyser_Soze
<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif'>  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
Another example of how NS is to well formed for Clan play, not enough refining into a public game. I suppose the playtesters did their jobs, after all 2.0 is great, no doubt of that, but I think they focussed on what "Competitive play" could benefit from it. Thats an ironic statement. "Competetitive fun" Anyway, as It stands I haven't experienced this much though. The F4-because-we-lost-this-key-location Idea. If your gonna F4, at least leave the game...

altairian · August 2003

first off, learn how to spell "lose" plz it makes you not look dumb =\

second, that's not a problem with NS, that's a problem with NS players. The game is just fine, pubbies are just dumbheads <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'>

Speed_2_Dave · August 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>People F4'ing as soon as the tide turns against them.

Today alone I've seen it 5 times where the loosing team (marine and alien) starts loosing players early on and it just gets worse until 2 or 3 people are trying to hold off 9 or 10.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

Ok.. No, F4'ing as soon as the tide goes bad seems natural in most online games. In the NS community there are very few who will do that "just because I lost a resnode." I may know I'm going to lose, but the other team might still make a mistake I can exploit.
The second half of that makes no sense. There can *NEVER* be a 3 v 9. Most servers do not change the auto-lose code from a 4 player difference. The second 4 people give up, the game is considered so unbalanced the game auto-ends. It didn't used to, and there would be cases of 5 aliens fighting up to 12 marines. It was ugly. Before the code was correctly implemented to force teams to be balanced you would often see 6-8 aliens fighting a much larger marine force.

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>The fact is that NS 2.0 is balanced enough that a good team can come back from behind if everyone works together... And I'm not talking about teams that have obviously lost - just ones that aren't dominating with the first 15 minutes</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
OK.. No again. 2.0 is fairly <b>un</b>balanced, such that if one team is better than the other, they should be able to tell if they're going to win in the first 15 minutes.

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>I'm open to suggestion as to how to prevent this - but until people stop playing for the quick win I'll only play NS on lan with my frinds who I can trust to stick it out until the bloody end.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Magitek @ Aug 13,2003, 06:06 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>This is one of those "We can balance the game, but we can't balance the players" situations. All you can really do is find a better crowd to play with. [</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
I swear, if I see one more F4 post on page one I'm going to explode. This topic is a time-bomb.

MagiTek · August 2003

This is one of those "We can balance the game, but we can't balance the players" situations. All you can really do is find a better crowd to play with.

iddqd · August 2003

this happened in 1.00 also

it'll go away after a while

Sirus · August 2003

The people who want to play will play, the people who wont, wont. People will quit, people will complain, people will surrender, only the dedicated will last.

It will work itself out eventually.

GreyPaws · August 2003

this was always an issue, in all the previous patches as well. and jetpacks defeat devour.

MrMojo · August 2003

So NS's problem is lame people? Man, flay, fix this.

EighteenTwelve · August 2003

Programme us some better players, jeez Flayra stay on the ball man <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'>

::EDIT:: Man, if F4ing is NS' 'fatal flaw' this game must be the best ever, eh?

semipsychotic · August 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>::EDIT:: Man, if F4ing is NS' 'fatal flaw' this game must be the best ever, eh? </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

Good point. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'>

Pinhedd · August 2003

Personally, I hardly ever see this, as I only play on 1 server and that is my clan server, and I strictly enforce that anyone who tries to 'kill a game' or 'F4' right at the beginning is going to face upto a one week ban, and trust me <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'> it works <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

Spazmatic · August 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Another example of how NS is to well formed for Clan play, not enough refining into a public game.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

I've seen servers with play not THAT far from clan play (CofR comes to mind)... But they're pubs. Obviously, it's simply a question of pub quality, and if you choose to play on bad pubs, then your game will be bad. Simple equation.

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Man, if F4ing is NS' 'fatal flaw' this game must be the best ever, eh?</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

Owned.

lolfighter · August 2003

On a related note, today I discovered how to entertain the server with whining. DON'T try this kids, you'll only get yourself burninated.
As for F4-ing, yes, sometimes it's bad, usually it's not. If it's VERY bad where you play, you're playing with the wrong crowd. I know that this standard-answer isn't very helpful, but that's all I can say.

GNUKeyser_Soze · August 2003

Thanks for all the replies.

First of all, yes, it's lose, lot loose. Well, it could be loose, but that's another story.

Second, yes, my post is really about the players and not the game. the game rocks. some of the players suck.

Third, it is possible to (and at least one server has) disable the "even teams" feature. either way, it's a moot point, since f4'ing basically ends the game either way.

You are all correct, it's about the quality of players. I pride myself in my abilites as an alien. I made the mistake of playing with people who don't have the same in themselves.

I found a thread after I posted this that has some great servers on it. The level of play was *much* better and people stuck with it even when it looked bad.

Thanks all for letting me rant and get it out of my system!

Greg
<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif'>

Pa1adin · August 2003

But look at it this way the people who don't press f4 are the ones who want to play, so although the team shrinks the reamining players are much tighter.

P.S. Keyser were you ever in a clan with the tag ACS

instant · August 2003

Aussie servers are quite good in that respect. People tend to only F4 if the winning team are just dragging the final period on too long. ( ie: Ono's just sitting at the remaining IP's )

Deronok · August 2003

On the server I play on F4 is disabled after 5 min and F4ing/Retrying to end the game will result in a temp or perm ban, depending on the persons past bans if they have any. Really helps keep the players from ruining it unless an admin isn't there, but admins are usually always on.

A_Damn_Fool · August 2003

But cant get rid of F4 either I was playing and 2 of our teamates quit so that wasnt all that bad considering it was a 3 vs 3 but I said **** ill take as many of the **** as I can (3 skulks rushing hive got the gorge 2 but then they respawned <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'>) so I died respawned and someone join's I think sweet the game can go on a little longer he looks at the teams say **** it and joins aliens (pub) now as I know from experiance on a 3 vs 3 The marines were not going to win but now 4 vs 1 I said heh it be worth a laugh then they destroy the comm chair and leave the IP so I was like ok..... and they all onos now they start to devour me. The first one does it I die but then I respawn BAM DEVOUR I was like ooh thats how its going to be wait till dead F4! and they still whined I just left. But my point is we need F4 iunno why i just dont want it gone.

Ns's Fatal Flaw

Comments