Countering Bile Bomb
RyoOhki
Join Date: 2003-01-26 Member: 12789Members
Join Date: 2003-01-26 Member: 12789Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Um, little help here pts and vets?</div> Bile bomb in many circumstances is a weapon that can be countered quite easily: kill the gorge. But a few maps have positions where this just isn't possible in the early game. What's worse, these positions are in absolutly vital sections of the map.
1. Hera's Holoroom
Argueably one of the most important spots in Hera to hold. I've just come out of a game where the marines expanded quickly and managed to get a base up in holo early game. Couple of turrets, a phase, and the res nodes went down and we were building up for a push into processing.
Then the rain of bile bombs started. The position the gorges were bile bombing from is as follows: the top right hand courner of holoroom. It's a dark area that is positioned directly above the path to processing.
You can't shoot a gorge that is sitting there. It's a physical impossibility: all the shooting angles are wrong, <b>yet the gorge can shoot at you</b> You need either jps or gls. And neither are availible early game. That whole base, costing some 150+ res, went down to a 10 res gorge. Needless to say we lost the game.
2. Power Silo Hive on ns_nothing
Also a very nasty spot. All around the top of powersilo are dark ledges that a gorge can sit in and bile bomb from. You can't hit him: again you need jetpacks or gls. So if you decide to lock down powersilo as your first hive, it will die. It's a mathamatical certainty against an organised alien team.
Those are simply the 2 worst examples. Now bile bomb was tested extensivley during the playtesting I presume, so pts and vets, how did you counter gorges sitting in such areas in the early game?
1. Hera's Holoroom
Argueably one of the most important spots in Hera to hold. I've just come out of a game where the marines expanded quickly and managed to get a base up in holo early game. Couple of turrets, a phase, and the res nodes went down and we were building up for a push into processing.
Then the rain of bile bombs started. The position the gorges were bile bombing from is as follows: the top right hand courner of holoroom. It's a dark area that is positioned directly above the path to processing.
You can't shoot a gorge that is sitting there. It's a physical impossibility: all the shooting angles are wrong, <b>yet the gorge can shoot at you</b> You need either jps or gls. And neither are availible early game. That whole base, costing some 150+ res, went down to a 10 res gorge. Needless to say we lost the game.
2. Power Silo Hive on ns_nothing
Also a very nasty spot. All around the top of powersilo are dark ledges that a gorge can sit in and bile bomb from. You can't hit him: again you need jetpacks or gls. So if you decide to lock down powersilo as your first hive, it will die. It's a mathamatical certainty against an organised alien team.
Those are simply the 2 worst examples. Now bile bomb was tested extensivley during the playtesting I presume, so pts and vets, how did you counter gorges sitting in such areas in the early game?
Comments
Exactly what I did NOT want to hear. 2 are non-viable early game and the 3rd, whilst it may work in holoroom, won't work in Powersilo
Well your only alternative is to upgrade armory straight off the bat giving you GLs by four minutes, or you can just not expand to any easily bile bombable areas until you get the counter tech giving aliens an even bigger early expansion advantage.
Anyway, as of 2.01c you dont have to worry about that <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Anyway, as of 2.01c you dont have to worry about that <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
You don't have to worry about aliens winning either.
Both options leave you screwed essentially. Often whoever holds holoroom wins hera games, so it has to be a priority. Silo hive you have to take at some time, and if the aliens start in cargo it's pretty much you're best option for success. As marines you have to expand, and sinking 35 early res into an armoury upgrade leaves you penniless for expansion, and giving the aliens free reign over bile-bombable positions means that they're probably gonna win. Why should it be so easy to counter marine bases in certain positions?
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I think you can weld the vents in holo.
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.....
Not only does 2.0 holo have no vents, but you completly misread where I said the gorges were bilebombing from.
Both options leave you screwed essentially. Often whoever holds holoroom wins hera games, so it has to be a priority. Silo hive you have to take at some time, and if the aliens start in cargo it's pretty much you're best option for success. As marines you have to expand, and sinking 35 early res into an armoury upgrade leaves you penniless for expansion, and giving the aliens free reign over bile-bombable positions means that they're probably gonna win. Why should it be so easy to counter marine bases in certain positions?
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**** at the playtesters for us then.
By the time the aliens have 2 hives it should not be difficult for the marines to get at least 1 GL.
Same tech for holo, or ask your marines to climb on each other so the top marine can pistol the gorge down.
Not much you can do, but make sure that anything you place on the ground isn't in an area where a sneaky gorge or lerk can PWN you.
Not too many ppl consider layout when they place their structures.
Why should all that go down to one gorge in a vent?
I really dislike gorges that take advantage of such places.
Perhaps using the idea of 2.01c but change it so aliens can only gestate into gorge by being near the hive since he is the builder and all. BUt allowing you to gestate into everything but a gorge away from the hive?
I believe that the power silo ledges would be too far from the hive to gestate into a gorge.
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You're complaining about the early game... Yet it must either not be too early or the alien team was just good.... Because they obviously already had a second hive to be able to bile bomb you.
By the time the aliens have 2 hives it should not be difficult for the marines to get at least 1 GL.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree, the time it takes to have two hives up should be plenty of time for the GLs. Although aliens can get a hive partially built by five minutes into the game, thats only with really organized people, and on most pub servers hive 2 hasn't started building until 10 mins into it all.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->azumawarrior Posted: Aug 15 2003, 09:08 AM
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Well lost South Loop which was a rushing point that contained 9 turrets, an upgraded/electric turret factory, electric resorce node, observatory, armory, phase gate, and 2 sieges.
Why should all that go down to one gorge in a vent?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The main reason why marine structures are taken down easily in most games that I've seen is because marines never stay there to guard it, or build a phase gate to the area so they can defend it and weld anything when its under attack. A single onos can take down a small base with a tf, 5-6 turrets, and a res node, but with a few marines sitting there with upgraded weaps, it becomes a major pain in the arse,
Why should all that go down to one gorge in a vent? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Becasue he out smarted your ****!
If you had all that, you should have had a GL to stop him!
Lerks need LOS to be able to hit you.
If he can see you, you can see him.
Try using your pistole!
If he can see you, you can see him."
spore. that stuff drop to the ground and u dont need LOS
Now Hera is a different story. Someone can use /stuck or fly outside and bile bomb the marine start res. That one is hard to counter without jp which I really haven't found much other use for yet in NS2.
I guess that if you plan to build at a location that is vulnerable, meaning... well, pretty much all the double res and some Marine starts, get a GL ready or you lose everything to a 14 res investment by one alien.
Plan ahead.
If he can see you, you can see him."
spore. that stuff drop to the ground and u dont need LOS <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Spores don't kill buildings OR turrets
[ugh. this makes no sense. i wrote it at 5 am. Shoot me.]