<div class="IPBDescription">Without being votekicked while learning.</div> With such heavy comm dependance, if 'rine comm sucks, 'rines suck. And you get yelled at nasty if you don't do it right. Should you just mute everyon?
1) Read a comm guide or two 2) Go to a pub 3) Jump in commchair 4) Pretend you know what you're doing
Works for me. I've never been ejected, though people have tried because I refuse to give anyone a weapon who spends more than two minutes straight in base when I ordered them elsewhere.
Give waypoints. Give orders. Tell people what you are working towards: 'Saving for MT' 'Saving for the next res' etc. And tell people why not, when they ask for things like a res tower, or motion tracking. Don't just ignore them, or not say anything.
Bad commanders give no waypoints. Too busy playing SimNS. Bad commanders don't drop medkits at the times its gonna help, such as during a hive assault. Bad commanders don't talk.
As long as the marines think you are watching after them (and no, that doesn't mean give out weapons on demand), they are less likely to votekick.
I've generally found that as long as you try your best, you'll be fine. There will always be a couple griefers that will try to have you kicked beacuse you didn't give them a shotty. Just make sure you keep a majority of the team happy, and you won't have to worry about being booted. Failing that try to find a newbie friendly server.... I think there is a thread somewhere with a list. You're always welcome at the P4 Republic of Great Democracy. ( I can't remember our IP =)
1. Start a lan game either alone or with some bots. Learn the hotkeys, the interface, making groups, giving waypoints, etc. The last thing anyone wants to hear from a comm is "how do I make buildings?"
2. Know the game. Know which buildings hold which upgrades, how the maps are layed out, and roughly how much everything costs.
3. Learn solid strats from other commanders.
When you actually get in the chair, pretend you are commanding little children:
1. Explain to them what you are doing and why. That way they dont feel neglected.
2. Dont give candy to everyone, only give candy to the good children.
3. Dont scream if they fail, just try to explain why it didn't work.
4. Dont tell them to do stupid/repetitive/pointless things. If a strat fails, try a different one.
5. Make them feel important. Call them by name, give them specific tasks, let them know when they are doing well, not just when they are doing bad.
I haven't stepped into the comm chair in a live game for any reason other than a couple games where I put up the IP's and armory so the marines wouldn't get tore up in 5 minutes. Been rather leery of screwing up. I know RTS fairly well, but the responsibility of so many other's fun lies on my shoulders, it's rather daunting.
However, I'm starting to get disgusted by the mistakes I see made by bad comms. I hate bad turret placement, and I really hate the mess that most comms make of their bases. It really pisses me off when stuff is built so damn close together you can barely move. Pisses me off when he sits in the comm chair and doesn't do jack squat.
I've played the game enough to know what structures give what upgrades. I used the sv_cheats 1 console command in a LAN game with just myself. This command allows the game to operate normally with just you in the game an no one else. Normally, the Command Chair doesn't work with just one player in the game, that command will let you. And with that done, you can use the "bigdig" cheat to make insta build buildings and allow yourself to get familiar with the layout and commands of the command chair.
My plan for stepping up is simple... find a comm I know is good but wants to do the fighting, and tell him "Just tell me what to do, I'll build it per your instructions". Thus under the guidance of the comm, get the "hands on" experiance I need. Maybe this could work for you?
Alot of the advice up there is true. I've been with good comms, and they talk to their team. They watch out for their men, but not just by handing out medkits. They use their PoV to warn Marines of dangers lurking around them. Heck, my favorite comm will waypoint the dangers he sees if he hadn't got MT up yet. A good comm will say "Great work men" when they succede and "nice try" when they fail.
If you lose, no biggie, it happens to even the best.
Learn comm interface and building prices and everything by running game on own server and starting cheats (sv_cheats 1) so you can play alone. Add bots and play with them, just to learn comm interface and how to operate it quickly, how to give waypoints and etc..
I don't know for sure, but you can't spectate a commander as an observer, right? Well, I think it would help a lot of people if you let them see through the eyes of the commander. But whatever, carry on with your advice.
1. Don't build a fing turret farm in your base. You will get ejected, at least on the server I play on. 2. Don't yell at your teammates, they're doing their best. Be clear and concise in your directions. 3. Have a plan. Know what you're doing. i.e. "Should I skip upgrades to get HA? or should I get upgrades and secure more res nodes?"
That's about it. The rest you learn as you go along.
How to be a good comm tip#1: Make sure you have good marines. I don't know how many times I've lost as commander because my marines just don't follow orders verbally, graphically (waypoint), or by text. I could yell at them all day long and they'd be romping around somewhere on their own. It helps to thank and praise those who do follow orders and do a good job.
<!--QuoteBegin--PseudoKnight+Aug 16 2003, 07:23 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (PseudoKnight @ Aug 16 2003, 07:23 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> How to be a good comm tip#1: Make sure you have good marines. I don't know how many times I've lost as commander because my marines just don't follow orders verbally, graphically (waypoint), or by text. I could yell at them all day long and they'd be romping around somewhere on their own. It helps to thank and praise those who do follow orders and do a good job. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> OMG..... that's so true.... i absolutely DETEST marines who don't listen to orders... and then they keep on yelling for HMG/HA/Welder when the game has started for 3 min... ITS SO ANNOYING......
*phew* there goes my anger, sorry for the unproductive post <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
/edit o yea, 1 way of how not to get better with ns comming is by playing other RTS; cuz its totally diff. sure, its a top-down view, you get to buidl stuff and order ppl around, BUT, sometimes ur units don't follow orders or listen. IMO, the most effective way of comming is by having good social skills with your soldiers. don't make them feel that ur a comm, but a friend who cares for them, listens, and takes the initiative. talk with them, joke with them, alert them, socialize. this is best done with a mic. neways, i think i've talked enuf <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
I wish I could keep my cool when a guy runs around a key welding point with a welder, where the aliens are constantly rushing into our base from, while a guy on the other side of the map, far from the waypoint, is telling me to build siege turrets to destroy two offense chambers.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->3. Dont scream if they fail, just try to explain why it didn't work. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Good advice, but next to impossible when your team gets screwed because everyone is asking for a gun instead of phasing... :-(
I have been ejected, frighteningly enough... Three times. Once for using res denial in 1.04 (which we won, by the way, aliens were shocked silly), and twice in 2.0x for not turret farming base... No idea why my team wanted a turret farmed base, but, you know, whatever.
This may sound weird, but one trick to learning to comm while not being ejected is being a really good shot. Chances are, you'll make mistakes (or, in the case of pubs, have marines who refuse to build/guard/etc), and will have to hop out, at least in early games. In that case, if you're a good shot, the fact that your marines won't guard base or won't phase to holo can be offset by you hopping through and saving it... Increases the success of your strategies, their robustness, and thus keeps you from getting ejected as often.
That and use fairly simple strategies... Do a shotgun rush, for example, as warmup.
SinSpawnHarbinger of SufferingJoin Date: 2002-11-12Member: 8359Members
I usually test NS on Lan and learn about upgrades and that, but I usually break down when it comes to COMMing due to the pressure and I end up watching my team die :/
Also its highly recommended that you have a mic or your pretty much restricted to type to tell them long sentences
First off, your better than them, by a long a shot. Why you ask? Simple, your balls are big enough to go into to the chair, while theirs are not. Use this for confidence.
Loudmouth barking his **** off telling you how to do your job? Wth? You didnt see him jumping head over heels to get in the chair, tell him to shutup and go to his waypoint.
Whiny kid asking for a shotgun? Bribe him, "Go to your waypoint and kill 15 enemies, and you'll get a shotgun, I promise." Then make sure to send him on very dangerous scout duty, that way when he dies you can be like "only 11 more kills to go man!"
If everything starts falling apart, remember to put all the blame on them, especially if their talking about how you commed, you jumped in, they didnt, what right do they have to criticize you? none. Start rambling about how THIS particular team is a textbook example of why marines never win. Be sure to lay on loooots of guilt.
However, it is best to remember to never actually swear or say very derogatory remarks, your a mean guy in charge, not a foul mouthed pirate. Its a fine line to walk, but it works very well once you get your balance.
Summary: Your better than them, trick them into doing what you want them to do, be angry but dont be derogatory.
Acually, I have a bad habit of "back seat driving" (i.e. bad habit of ALWAYS ordering the comm around) so most newbie comms are perfectly fine to me, just as long as they follow along with my simple intructions.
So I guess I could call myself an experienced commander, even thought I comm rarely....
moultanoCreator of ns_shiva.Join Date: 2002-12-14Member: 10806Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
One thing I remember fondly, it was a game on mineshaft with a very good comm, set objectives gave waypoints, everything was just awesome. But for some reason all of the marines thought they were invincible in HA. They just kept getting devoured and carried off. The comm noted that I was one of the few soldiers who were following orders and trying to stay in groups. When it became obvious that we were going to lose, the comm gave me my pick of equipment to go down with. Nice guy, whoever that was.
As for <i>good</i> comming... that's a rarity... but <i>good enough</i> is rare too...
I have had to learn to comm under situations where NO ONE else wanted to comm, we lost those games mostly, but it got me a bit of good experience as far as "what works and what doesn't", because most of those games were lost because I couldn't get the collective rear into a cohesive endgame plan.
However, in my fourth and fifth (at least of the times I remmeber, may have been as high as 7th & 8th times) we won because I pursued a game plan, and kept it going. The first was amazingly no real contest, it was a small game, 3 on 3 and 4 on 3 ('rine - alien order) and the aliens took their sweet time (it had started out as 1 on 1, with one guy (Dep, a guy I'd played with before) joined shortly afterward. We sieged their hives to heck, and won the day, with a huge surpluss of Res.
The other side got up to three hives on my fifth game, but good people and a plan on how to go about it took down their hives quickly. However, towards endgame, we picked up a guy who didn't think I was any good at all. He kept complaining cause I didn't drop him his HMG the second he demanded it or some such, but the rest of the team told him to SUYF, and I tell ya, that was probably the best moment I've had playing NS, that vote of confidance from my team. (although the whiner did have the positive affect of reminding me I had forgotten to get MT)
All my endgames end up with huge surplusses of res, I think at one point, on my fifth game, we got 1200 res points... full tech, HA, JPs, seiging hives.. and dropping HMG/HA/W for every respawned marine...
Basically, commanding is hard, because alot of pubbers expect you to be god right off the bat, and the fate of the team does lay squarely on your shoulders, its also one of the most rewarding at times.
Basically, I usually try to go with the build order of: IPs/Armory/TF/Obs, Turrets, additional res, ArmsLab, Upgrade Armory, and finally proto lab
IPs: well, without them you've only got one life Armory: ammo TF: because they're seriously more than detterants now Obs: useful, especially for scaring the aliens early with preemptive sweeps After the innital turtling, I have my people head their arses out in one large group towards a selected resnode path.
After a little while, I start up the tech tree, usually building up the base while the squad finishes securing the double res fort that I've dropped for them.
Of course, I've only won two games, so, it may need a little tweaking... and the last thing, if you've got cooperative people, always plop a phase at foreward bases, they're incredibly useful when you arn't stuck with humpers.
I agree, the winning commander's I've seen have all had complete compliance from the team. Usually that's because he tells them to get somewhere and do something quickly on both voicecomm and by waypoints so there's no confusion, and has an air of absolute command. The latter rarely occurs unless the comm is self-assured, confident, and does a little yelling and puts the marines' feet to the fire (the exception is when Flayra, MonsE, or some other local hero is comming ;-P).
Another failure of most comms is the willingness to throw marines into the meat grinder and the unwillingness to recycle a forward base that's going down. I'm not talking for morale or some sentimental BS, I'm saying that each marine means 3 RFK for an alien. If you're doing well but getting completely outclassed at a prospective siege spot, you have to think that it'd be better to get what res that you can back from what you placed and stop giving aliens res than to give the aliens both the victory at the forward base, lose res from the structures, and give the aliens more res. A lot of times the aliens will get enough RFK to fuel an onos rush, which then cements their victory. A lot of good comms will just drop a PG where the marines are in a lull and allow them to go back and ammo up, and then when they PG back recycle and build a PG further up. This might seem like wasted res, but it seems to work. Don't ph33r the non-permanent bases <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--n4s7y+Aug 16 2003, 06:14 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (n4s7y @ Aug 16 2003, 06:14 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Rules for being a good comm:
1. Don't build a fing turret farm in your base. You will get ejected, at least on the server I play on. ... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> omg, what server do you play on?! Turrets are effective but fecking ****!
Comments
2) Go to a pub
3) Jump in commchair
4) Pretend you know what you're doing
Works for me. I've never been ejected, though people have tried because I refuse to give anyone a weapon who spends more than two minutes straight in base when I ordered them elsewhere.
Give waypoints. Give orders. Tell people what you are working towards: 'Saving for MT' 'Saving for the next res' etc. And tell people why not, when they ask for things like a res tower, or motion tracking. Don't just ignore them, or not say anything.
Bad commanders give no waypoints. Too busy playing SimNS. Bad commanders don't drop medkits at the times its gonna help, such as during a hive assault. Bad commanders don't talk.
As long as the marines think you are watching after them (and no, that doesn't mean give out weapons on demand), they are less likely to votekick.
1. Start a lan game either alone or with some bots. Learn the hotkeys, the interface, making groups, giving waypoints, etc. The last thing anyone wants to hear from a comm is "how do I make buildings?"
2. Know the game. Know which buildings hold which upgrades, how the maps are layed out, and roughly how much everything costs.
3. Learn solid strats from other commanders.
When you actually get in the chair, pretend you are commanding little children:
1. Explain to them what you are doing and why. That way they dont feel neglected.
2. Dont give candy to everyone, only give candy to the good children.
3. Dont scream if they fail, just try to explain why it didn't work.
4. Dont tell them to do stupid/repetitive/pointless things. If a strat fails, try a different one.
5. Make them feel important. Call them by name, give them specific tasks, let them know when they are doing well, not just when they are doing bad.
However, I'm starting to get disgusted by the mistakes I see made by bad comms. I hate bad turret placement, and I really hate the mess that most comms make of their bases. It really pisses me off when stuff is built so damn close together you can barely move. Pisses me off when he sits in the comm chair and doesn't do jack squat.
I've played the game enough to know what structures give what upgrades. I used the sv_cheats 1 console command in a LAN game with just myself. This command allows the game to operate normally with just you in the game an no one else. Normally, the Command Chair doesn't work with just one player in the game, that command will let you. And with that done, you can use the "bigdig" cheat to make insta build buildings and allow yourself to get familiar with the layout and commands of the command chair.
My plan for stepping up is simple... find a comm I know is good but wants to do the fighting, and tell him "Just tell me what to do, I'll build it per your instructions". Thus under the guidance of the comm, get the "hands on" experiance I need. Maybe this could work for you?
Alot of the advice up there is true. I've been with good comms, and they talk to their team. They watch out for their men, but not just by handing out medkits. They use their PoV to warn Marines of dangers lurking around them. Heck, my favorite comm will waypoint the dangers he sees if he hadn't got MT up yet. A good comm will say "Great work men" when they succede and "nice try" when they fail.
If you lose, no biggie, it happens to even the best.
Well, I think it would help a lot of people if you let them see through the eyes of the commander.
But whatever, carry on with your advice.
1. Don't build a fing turret farm in your base. You will get ejected, at least on the server I play on.
2. Don't yell at your teammates, they're doing their best. Be clear and concise in your directions.
3. Have a plan. Know what you're doing. i.e. "Should I skip upgrades to get HA? or should I get upgrades and secure more res nodes?"
That's about it. The rest you learn as you go along.
OMG..... that's so true.... i absolutely DETEST marines who don't listen to orders... and then they keep on yelling for HMG/HA/Welder when the game has started for 3 min... ITS SO ANNOYING......
*phew* there goes my anger, sorry for the unproductive post <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
/edit o yea, 1 way of how not to get better with ns comming is by playing other RTS; cuz its totally diff. sure, its a top-down view, you get to buidl stuff and order ppl around, BUT, sometimes ur units don't follow orders or listen. IMO, the most effective way of comming is by having good social skills with your soldiers. don't make them feel that ur a comm, but a friend who cares for them, listens, and takes the initiative. talk with them, joke with them, alert them, socialize. this is best done with a mic. neways, i think i've talked enuf <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Good advice, but next to impossible when your team gets screwed because everyone is asking for a gun instead of phasing... :-(
I have been ejected, frighteningly enough... Three times. Once for using res denial in 1.04 (which we won, by the way, aliens were shocked silly), and twice in 2.0x for not turret farming base... No idea why my team wanted a turret farmed base, but, you know, whatever.
This may sound weird, but one trick to learning to comm while not being ejected is being a really good shot. Chances are, you'll make mistakes (or, in the case of pubs, have marines who refuse to build/guard/etc), and will have to hop out, at least in early games. In that case, if you're a good shot, the fact that your marines won't guard base or won't phase to holo can be offset by you hopping through and saving it... Increases the success of your strategies, their robustness, and thus keeps you from getting ejected as often.
That and use fairly simple strategies... Do a shotgun rush, for example, as warmup.
Also its highly recommended that you have a mic or your pretty much restricted to type to tell them long sentences
First off, your better than them, by a long a shot. Why you ask? Simple, your balls are big enough to go into to the chair, while theirs are not. Use this for confidence.
Loudmouth barking his **** off telling you how to do your job? Wth? You didnt see him jumping head over heels to get in the chair, tell him to shutup and go to his waypoint.
Whiny kid asking for a shotgun? Bribe him, "Go to your waypoint and kill 15 enemies, and you'll get a shotgun, I promise." Then make sure to send him on very dangerous scout duty, that way when he dies you can be like "only 11 more kills to go man!"
If everything starts falling apart, remember to put all the blame on them, especially if their talking about how you commed, you jumped in, they didnt, what right do they have to criticize you? none. Start rambling about how THIS particular team is a textbook example of why marines never win. Be sure to lay on loooots of guilt.
However, it is best to remember to never actually swear or say very derogatory remarks, your a mean guy in charge, not a foul mouthed pirate. Its a fine line to walk, but it works very well once you get your balance.
Summary: Your better than them, trick them into doing what you want them to do, be angry but dont be derogatory.
So I guess I could call myself an experienced commander, even thought I comm rarely....
I have had to learn to comm under situations where NO ONE else wanted to comm, we lost those games mostly, but it got me a bit of good experience as far as "what works and what doesn't", because most of those games were lost because I couldn't get the collective rear into a cohesive endgame plan.
However, in my fourth and fifth (at least of the times I remmeber, may have been as high as 7th & 8th times) we won because I pursued a game plan, and kept it going. The first was amazingly no real contest, it was a small game, 3 on 3 and 4 on 3 ('rine - alien order) and the aliens took their sweet time (it had started out as 1 on 1, with one guy (Dep, a guy I'd played with before) joined shortly afterward. We sieged their hives to heck, and won the day, with a huge surpluss of Res.
The other side got up to three hives on my fifth game, but good people and a plan on how to go about it took down their hives quickly. However, towards endgame, we picked up a guy who didn't think I was any good at all. He kept complaining cause I didn't drop him his HMG the second he demanded it or some such, but the rest of the team told him to SUYF, and I tell ya, that was probably the best moment I've had playing NS, that vote of confidance from my team. (although the whiner did have the positive affect of reminding me I had forgotten to get MT)
All my endgames end up with huge surplusses of res, I think at one point, on my fifth game, we got 1200 res points... full tech, HA, JPs, seiging hives.. and dropping HMG/HA/W for every respawned marine...
Basically, commanding is hard, because alot of pubbers expect you to be god right off the bat, and the fate of the team does lay squarely on your shoulders, its also one of the most rewarding at times.
Basically, I usually try to go with the build order of: IPs/Armory/TF/Obs, Turrets, additional res, ArmsLab, Upgrade Armory, and finally proto lab
IPs: well, without them you've only got one life
Armory: ammo
TF: because they're seriously more than detterants now
Obs: useful, especially for scaring the aliens early with preemptive sweeps
After the innital turtling, I have my people head their arses out in one large group towards a selected resnode path.
After a little while, I start up the tech tree, usually building up the base while the squad finishes securing the double res fort that I've dropped for them.
Of course, I've only won two games, so, it may need a little tweaking... and the last thing, if you've got cooperative people, always plop a phase at foreward bases, they're incredibly useful when you arn't stuck with humpers.
Another failure of most comms is the willingness to throw marines into the meat grinder and the unwillingness to recycle a forward base that's going down. I'm not talking for morale or some sentimental BS, I'm saying that each marine means 3 RFK for an alien. If you're doing well but getting completely outclassed at a prospective siege spot, you have to think that it'd be better to get what res that you can back from what you placed and stop giving aliens res than to give the aliens both the victory at the forward base, lose res from the structures, and give the aliens more res. A lot of times the aliens will get enough RFK to fuel an onos rush, which then cements their victory. A lot of good comms will just drop a PG where the marines are in a lull and allow them to go back and ammo up, and then when they PG back recycle and build a PG further up. This might seem like wasted res, but it seems to work. Don't ph33r the non-permanent bases <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
1. Don't build a fing turret farm in your base. You will get ejected, at least on the server I play on.
... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
omg, what server do you play on?! Turrets are effective but fecking ****!