Serious Onos Problem
MrPink
Join Date: 2002-05-28 Member: 678Members
Join Date: 2002-05-28 Member: 678Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Lacks a Counter</div> As of 2.0 (and probably the 2.01 betas) onos are incredibly strong and have absolutely no counter. Jetpacks were supposed to be the counter, but they just don't cut it. The problem is that most maps are so small and cramped that a jumping onos can reach the cieling, or the jetpacker runs out of fuel and thrust so fast he hits the ground and dies. The other day I sent 3 jetpack shotgunners out, all good players on a private server, and 1 onos killed them all with no problem. The fact that most people have stopped thinking "redemption is god" doesn't help either, now a carapaced onos can stomp some heavies, devour 1, and be gone before they get more than a few shots off, or if they don't stomp they can just walk up and devour 1 and run away most of the time.
Comments
Why not turn stomp into a powerful, but purely supporting weapon? Just prevent the onos from attacking until the stomp wears off... Thus, no more annoying solo onos, but an onos with a group of miscellaneous units (note: combined arms!) would kick arse, since he could stomp and they could, you know, do their thing.
Yes, but, at the moment, one onos is a counter to an entire squad of heavies (in hallways).
If it really is a big problem, you could slow the ROF of the marines who are stunned.
I like that idea a lot -- instead of stopping all movement, stomp would make your view look like a major earthquake. It would be effective (though not quite as effective as stomp is now) and be a whole lot cooler <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
2) Stomp immobilizes everything within its range, even if they're jumping up in the air.
3) Stomp negates any sort of hard counter. If you can't shoot the onos, you can't kill him.
My suggestion: Add a delay before you can stomp, where the onos has to "rear up" for one or two seconds (just so marines can get out of the way), and shorten its range by maybe a quarter (I mean make the range 3/4 of what it is now).
Anyway, here's one i prepared earlier on <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=5&t=43194&st=0&' target='_blank'>this</a> thread
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->You forgot one thing, a bloody great big gun to kill onos. A big onos killing gun wasn't greatly needed in 1.04 because quite simply, onos were rare. That isn't, however, the case of 2.0 where onos herds are a common site. With this gun marines might be able to fend the aliens long enough so they can get decent upgrades. Obviasly its stats would have to carefuly implamented, but hey, thats what PTs are for.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh yeah, the onos should stop for a few seconds before it stomps, looks to me like the onos lifts the front of its body and then drops down with enough force to cause a shockwave.....hmm, here's another idea, how about using stomp causes minor damage to your self?
Or some range prior to meeting them?
Everytime I go Onos, I get chewed up.
Redeem wont work, shottie death in under 3 seconds, etc.
Only when Im hiding by sensory chambers or around corners, can I get the jump on them
Id rather be a skulk, lerk or fade than an onos.
Too expensive.
Thats 3 lerks or 2 fades. Id do more with either
There's your counter.
Teamwork also helps, distracting him, then chasing him when he runs
The chasing part is very important.. he will only run when seriously damaged
Stomp is seriously bugged.
I was playing.. the map with Biodome as a hive..
In the double res node, the onos stood in the upper window, and stomped at me...
I was in the vent and he hit me.. it traveled across open air..
Jetpacks work really really well, but are still a serious investment. It wouldn't be so bad if the research didn't cost so much, then it could just be used as needed.
Shotguns and hmgs send onos packing. Concentrating fire, 2 hmgs or shottys + 2 or so lmgs will make an onos redeem in about two seconds, or kill it in about three. A little more firepower works even better.
They aren't invincible, there are counters, and there is no serious problem. There might be a minor problem, however. I wouldn't be against a little tweaking, but I wouldn't vote for anything drastic.
Are you serious? They have this, it's called an HMG. If I'm not mistaken an L3 HMG kills a non-cara Onos in 29 shots.
I don't think Onos are really a problem. If one is willing to use devour to wear down a HA train, more power to them. Stomp doesn't last that long and is the complement to devour. Like blink/swipe with a Fade. Adding a delay would make getting out of the way of stomp to be very easy, and allowing marines to fire kinda defeats the purpose of disabling marines, since most teams can lay down enough fire to kill an Onos pretty quick. The Onos is a 100 res alien. It's not cheap and shouldn't be easily countered. They are the counter to HA after all.
*imagines a phalanx of heavy 'rines with cattle prods* *zap zap zap* Stay away onos!
Thought I'd lighten up the thread. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
short range my ****, that thing can reach across entire five mile hallway. i don't think that thing even has a range limit.(not really im exagerating here but it's hella far.
(Reffering to stomp)
Of course this includes any HA.
Shootguns and jp are an easy counter to oni when used not to rambo off alone but wait to hunt oni down that are running away.
The cheapest counter to oni is shootgun WITHOUT HA and marines not all standing at one place.
HA is only good against lerks and fades.
devour is only wirth the energy loss when you eat a HA-shootgun or HA-hmg, best with a welder for the crispy taste..
When I see an Ohnos, I do everything in my power to get out of the way. Both charge and stomp have trained me to get out of the line of fire even when they are way down the hall. Very difficult in corridors, that I will grant. But you got to remember, the player spent 100 rps on that behemoth. That equals about 500 ticks of the res nodes not counting res for kills. Far as I'm concerned, they should be as powerful as they are.
Marines need to move in teams, but they don't need to stand so close to each other they can smell their teammates sweat. I can't count how many times I've told my fellow pubbers to spread out some to lesson Xenocide damage and make it harder for Ohnos to get us all. Irritates me how few listen.
Even if your in a Corridor, you can spread yourself enough to keep him from getting your whole team. Stomp's range isn't that great (isn't bad, but it's by no means great), so he has to run up on you, giving you more time to fire. This is especially effective if your team is moving in a sorta "inverted V" formation, were you have two guys hugging the wall and one guy firing down the center some distance behind them. In order to get more than one or all 3, the Ohnos has to risk his neck as he'll have to get even closer to be able to loop in the trailing marine in his stomp shockwave.
If I had a nickel for everytime I saw an idiot pair of HA's round a corner after a little gorge only to get "stomped and owned" as they rounded the corner all while their comm said "get back, no, don't chase him", I could retire.
Stomp requires 2 hives, you really should be concentrating on locking down 2 hives anyway.
But to be fair, I do have some suggestions how it can be "nerfed" without destroying it's effectiveness.
1) Make the stun not as long lasting to those who are further away from the Ohnos. This makes sense as the tremors would subside the further and further away they travel from the source. This should force the Ohnos to get closer thus risking his neck more in order to get a long stun, but will still preserve the ability to ambush from around corners as well as slow down fleeing Marines.
2) I don't like this idea as much, but perhaps dropping a medpack on a soldier will break stun. This kind of goes along the line of what Dark Age of Camelot does with it's line of spells made to get rid of mez on your teammates. While I'm not too fond of this idea, I feel it's somewhat counterbalanced by the facts that your commander has to be on his toes AND he has to be willing to spend the res to unstun you.
I personally would be happy if no changes were made, but these would be changes I could live with.
*edit - Just redid some wording and added the last sentence. That's what I get for not hitting "preview"*
When the alien gets onos that are 'uncounterable' from upgrades, the marines have made enough mistakes to warrant a fast end-game (their original reason).
But if fight you must (and fight you shall), turrets, hmg, and shotguns do well with plenty of medpacks.
JETPACK JETPACK JETPACK!!!1</u></b></span></span>
<span style='font-size:21pt;line-height:100%'><span style='color:red'><b><u>SHOTTY!!!1
SHOTTY SHOTTY SHOTTY!!!1</u></b></span></span>
[ <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo--> There's your counters! NOW, TEST THEM AND BE IN AWE! <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo--> ]
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My suggestion: Add a delay before you can stomp, where the onos has to "rear up" for one or two seconds (just so marines can get out of the way), and shorten its range by maybe a quarter (I mean make the range 3/4 of what it is now).<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't know if anyone else noticed this, but I noticed something odd with the animation for stomp: You click to attack, and the stomp is away, <b><i>then</i></b> the Onos front rears up and slams down. I've always wondered if perhaps stomp was delayed by a second or so before it was released, but then changed before 2.0 was released, or something of the sort.