New Server Concept?
Tiax
Join Date: 2003-05-28 Member: 16802Members
Join Date: 2003-05-28 Member: 16802Members
Most servers will ban you if your caught cheating, or kick you if say to many bad words. But has anyone running a server ever thought about kicking for lack of skill?
Now, I don't mean "you missed that shot, goodbye", but more of a teamwork based system. If John is a rambo who is ignoring his commander and doing his own thing, kick him and explain why. If he is later back and doign the same, ban him. Overall you'd probably end up with a server with more competitive play. Those who like to work together would be attracted to the server due to the kicking of non-teamplayers, and those who don't wouldn't be there for long.
In this system Dave could be a brand new noob who has no idea how to reload, but because he obeys the commanders orders he gets to stay. Where as John could be some 20 ping super man who never dies but always does his own thing and he'd be removed...because he isn't listening to the commanders orders.
Thoughts? Comments? Also include with your comments whether the majority of the time you obey a comm and work as a team, or whether the majority of the time you do your own thing, or whether you are usually the comm.
Now, I don't mean "you missed that shot, goodbye", but more of a teamwork based system. If John is a rambo who is ignoring his commander and doing his own thing, kick him and explain why. If he is later back and doign the same, ban him. Overall you'd probably end up with a server with more competitive play. Those who like to work together would be attracted to the server due to the kicking of non-teamplayers, and those who don't wouldn't be there for long.
In this system Dave could be a brand new noob who has no idea how to reload, but because he obeys the commanders orders he gets to stay. Where as John could be some 20 ping super man who never dies but always does his own thing and he'd be removed...because he isn't listening to the commanders orders.
Thoughts? Comments? Also include with your comments whether the majority of the time you obey a comm and work as a team, or whether the majority of the time you do your own thing, or whether you are usually the comm.
Comments
I've kicked people for not working with the rest of the team, disobeying orders, etc.
We put in over 60 hours a week playing between us and I myself put in another 10 hours observation from HLSW at the moment - so I can see whats said and done through text. I use HLSW's wonid database to keep logs and comments on players that need watching and resons why they were kicked or banned.
Finally I have serveral spies keeping an eye on things for me too and reporting back wonids of anyone that needs further scrutiny.
Yes we ban for lack of teamplay and/or muppettry but not for lack of skill or experience. It's up to the more experienced players to lead by example and teach the newbies the way to play.
btw. <b>Roob's *No Time For Muppets*</b> never ran a beta server. It always runs the official final release and as close to pure NS as we can get. Some mods like unstuck pro are really essential.
You are thinking of <b>*No Time For Muppets* BETA</b>. Which always runs the latest beta, sorry if you dont like 2.01c but thats what Flayra currently wants testing, 2.01b has been done. When 2.01d is released we'll put that on there.
I will always obey a commander if he gives orders.
John "Feed the aliens" Rambo gets kicked as does Al "I want this chamber and I dont care what you say" Gorge.
Teamplay though is really what the games about. Not playing as a team or trying to disrupt things ruins the game for everyone. Just today these two idiots joined, went on marine and recycled everything, then spammed "everyone f4 so we can restart". Needless to say they were banned rather quickly.
we are trying to be OPEN to the new players that were gained by the 1.04/2.0 switch... We have been told by forums admin and moderators to ease back on our flaming and take honestly questions like "what's the spark gun for?" and "hive?" and reply with a REAL answer FIRST... then we can point and laugh.
i know each of you out there is entitled to his own server rules, server regulations, and server creation... good job for you on that point.
BUT... when they come onto the forums, complaining about un-fair treatment... not only you, but the rest of the community has to sift through their rant, just because they can't take it up with themselves that they are new, and your putting them off FOR being new.
If you practice this technique on your servers, please, include in your MOTD the following things:
The Rule - put this one in there a few times
Your Contact - so they know who to rant to... put this in a few times as well
A Disclaimer - let them know that you do NOT want to see them complaining about being kicked for "lack of skill" on the Official Natural Selection Forums
sorry, but i'm just pre-disclamering this so you guys know that i think it's a lame idea making more work for everybody...
Come on... its not starcraft with bots playing for you. This is one of the elements that makes it fun!
assuming i am not too abnormal, making myself less annoyed will make everyone less annoyed, and therefore make the server a better place!
You dont seem to be reading to well <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> All the posts here have said lack of skill and/or experience is not a fair reason for a kick. I don't think there is a server admin who does think it's worth kicking someone just because they cant aim or don't know the game very well. The post title may be misleading but you really should check the content before replying <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
If they cant work as part of a team though then thats a different story.
One last point - the MOTD cannot contain the suggested information as it would crash the server every time someone joined. Our message of the day says:-
<b>Welcome to Roob's *No Time For Muppets* NS v2.0
BREAKING THE RULES WILL NOT BE TOLERATED
Have fun.</b>
and that's about the limit really. I to put a copy of the primarly rules but it wasn't having it.
/edit/ ok not sure about zel, but it's his/her server so wth.
I personally think this issue is way too vauge and dotted to do anything worse then slay at the absolute worst.
I think what Tiax- is talking about are those _severe_ cases of disruptive behaviour.
Most people liked it. But I agree with Redford though.
<span style='color:red'><b>example1:-</b></span>
comm jumps out to help build something at base while most of the troops are defening an outpost.
muppet respawns after failed rambo attempt, jumps in chair and gives himself HA/hmg with the res the comm had save for weapons upgrades, or even tf& siege for the rest of the marines. Then he runs out of base alone to get easten again.
In this instance an admin would step in. Told him not to do that, asked him to read the consgreet and probably kicked him after he died. I would then make a note in my wonid database and on a second offence he would be banned.
<span style='color:red'><b>example2:-</b></span>
guy goes comm.
Do you know what your doing asks the team as he drops a TF and 6 turrets in base... "yes, trust me" he replies.
1 IP, 2 TF's and 25 turrets later the marines are still in base and the comm is ordering them to hold position while we get teched up...
We all know he's an idiot but decide the game is too far gone to save and wait. Then he drops himself a shotgun and runs into a OC wall just out side base, the aliens attack, he screams about n00b marines and hits F4. Banned.
<span style='color:red'><b>example3:-</b></span>
Player spends entire game running around alone getting killed, comm asks him to go to his waypoint and he ignores comm. Comm asks him to stay with the other marines, and he ignores comm. Admin asks him to follow the comms orders and he ignorees admin. Game over, game restarts, same guy joins marines and repeats all the same mistakes. Does not respond to voice or text messaging. Admin gives 60minutes ban.
<span style='color:red'><b>example4:-</b></span>
Player goes rambo, comm needs player at waypoint. Comm givess waypoint, comm voices and texts for player to get to waypoint, or go through phase. Marine replies "**** you Comm, I 'aint no newbie". Newbie or not, all soldiers need to follow orders and because this was a particulally nasty response, Banned.
<span style='color:red'><b>example5:-</b></span>
As above but player responds "spanish not speak good english", comm responds, "WAYPOINT PLZ" and spams the waypoint a few times. Player then starts trying to get to waypoints, building things that need building and generally moving with the squad. Good game had by all and no admin intervention required. Player cant hit the side of a barn with a shotgun at point blank, but he is trying.
These are all taken from real situations and if it was you you can complain to me or the other admins direct through the contact details. Personally I think they are a pretty good examples of punishement for lack of team play.
First thing, the marines don't always have a good comm. A comm that's only communicating through WPs half the time and seems to be overwhelmed could probably use some help from a marine that knows what they're doing, and even good comms ignore your position sometimes when there's frantic hive-taking action across the map. Furthermore, sometimes your good judgement is required (i.e. comm says GET TO SUBSPACE, WE'RE GOING TO TAKE IT!!! when a single skulk is going to chew your TF in another hive and you can stop him real quick.
Secondly, I've seen rambos win the game for the marines. When you have a chance of winning but your base is going down, it's the guy that manages to escape to a nice vent across the map who's going to be able to build IPs and a CC to try and rally the win back (and it does happen sometimes). Or maybe it's the guy that's been completely denying them res the entire game. Maybe it's the guy that snuck past some O's from tram tunnel to refinery while the rest of the team was being walking RFKs for aliens at a base that was hopeless to defend, so now you can capture the double node and have a chance at a comeback. And not all solo action is ramboing! Peeking your head out of the side of the base to see what's out there without specific orders is not ramboing, unless the comm is telling everyone not to peek their heads out of the side of the base. There's a lot of people bandying around the word ramboing like it's going out of style (You n00b ramboer!, said to someone who was running to their waypoint while the rest of the team was lounging around the armory; I would never rambo an HA like you just did, said to a lesser skilled player who was standing in their base behind a couple turrets but still got devoured; etc, etc).
Finally, if you think about it, a vanilla marine rambo has justified his death if he manages to kill one alien with at least two upgrades or one evolution, or any alien structure.
That said, there are some cases where I would feel a kick would be justified:
1. The marine that intentionally does not follow orders. He's shown his aptitude previously and he just stands at the armory humping all day and begging for shottie.
2. The newb marine that doesn't go anywhere, just begs for guns at the armory even when you're screaming to go through the phase gate before we lose.
3. The marine that rambos an HA, welder, and heavy weapon and knows what they're worth.
4. The marine that continues to throw himself at a room full of OCs that he has no chance with, despite repeated messages to stop.
Also, I forgot to add, one of my personal pet peeves (that I probably wouldn't kick for, but then again, no one else does now) is incredible overuse of the mike. This is the guy who will report in when every turret in base is built, that there's an Onos attacking base when everyone's in base (hello?), then explain to you that you should pick up the weapons on the ground and attack the Onos. Usually these are the same people using voice comm as a chat room while everyone else is trying to do something. Don't get me wrong, I have no point about idle chitchat, but keep it in moderation and when half the team's anxiously listening for the pitter-patter of skulk feet in a hive across the map.
Hehe, yeah, had a player who couldn't hit chambers with a shotgun before, honest. It was entertaining, to say the least, he became the base ****, did fine with a welder.
But, yes, I think there are servers out there that follow said policy. And, in particular, certain admins. Simply put, if after ten games, someone still doesn't at least read enough text to understand "Do not run off and die, listen to the comm", they're probably not one of the people the dev team wants us to save. However, if they get confused about phasegates, get lost going to waypoints, lose weapons, etc, that's just part of the learning curve.
Now, I don't mean "you missed that shot, goodbye", but more of a teamwork based system. If John is a rambo who is ignoring his commander and doing his own thing, kick him and explain why. If he is later back and doign the same, ban him. Overall you'd probably end up with a server with more competitive play. Those who like to work together would be attracted to the server due to the kicking of non-teamplayers, and those who don't wouldn't be there for long.
In this system Dave could be a brand new noob who has no idea how to reload, but because he obeys the commanders orders he gets to stay. Where as John could be some 20 ping super man who never dies but always does his own thing and he'd be removed...because he isn't listening to the commanders orders.
Thoughts? Comments? Also include with your comments whether the majority of the time you obey a comm and work as a team, or whether the majority of the time you do your own thing, or whether you are usually the comm. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yup, I do exactly that on my server. Some people boo-hoo and **** about it, but thats why so many regs keep coming back, because I won't let that crap ruin other peoples games. Rambos=suck
And what you described near the end isn't a rambo, a rambo doesn't do anything useful for the team, he just trys to run around killing skulks.
The reason I think it's such a bad word to describe people is if these players were true rambos then they'd wipe the khara out and all the hives with their pocket knife, then they'd come back and shoot up marine start. That would be ok of course because marines would have already won. In addition each game would last about 1hr 20 minutes and be pretty much the same as the last. The first game would a stunning political statement but the rest would be cheap, drawn out killathons with no real point to them. It would probably involve helicopters of some sort too. One last point, Rambo followed his commanders orders.
Ok, so perhaps I take the point to far but occasionally I hear "Comm, mind if I go rambo". This normally comes from an experienced player who feels he is on target that day and has seen an opening in the khara defences that some gurilla warfare tactics may be able to exploit. This is far closer to true Rambo style.
No gentlemen the common Rambo is better described as a muppet.