OR what is a good counter for them. With LMGs i zip side to side and let the marines foolishly waste their ammo and then rush them, but with a shotty I dont think that would work. Any tips?
SuBAusNS Forum AdminJoin Date: 2003-02-18Member: 13723Members
edited August 2003
Celerity.
It's best to use the shotgun a bit to discover it's strengths and weaknesses and how you can counteract it.
Basically with celerity you have the extra speed to keep out of their range and they have to track faster.
The shotty is most effective when used to suprise close range targets. Around a corner with motion is lethal to a skulk, so scent of fear can also help to avoid getting suprised.
<!--QuoteBegin--Cheez!+Aug 18 2003, 10:33 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cheez! @ Aug 18 2003, 10:33 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Attacking with team-mates from different angles helps too, but that would need some teamwork, which we all know is impossible. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> not to mention against the rules - HAX!
Shotguns owns, any good player will kill 4 skulks in a row, celerity or not.
Best advice is to set a nice ambush, but then if the marine looks at his mini-map.... <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo-->
Really their is not much u can do, even OC dies pretty quickly with shotties, so a WOL wont help either...
SOmehow, I put 4 bots on my server the other night, they kinda su_cks, getting owned left and right by every average marine, because bots only go aliens <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::onos::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tiny.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::lerk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/lerk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='lerk.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::fade::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/fade.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='fade.gif'><!--endemo--> .
Anyway, and it was very interesting to se bots owning HA with shotties as skulks....
So Iv looked how they attack the marine, and I think that that new way for me, to attack a marine, might be teh answer <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
There's generally several ways to do it. Against light marines w/ shotties, hide in out of the way dark corners, vents, above them and let them go past, then approach from behind and you have at least a one-bite advantage before they know you're there. Doesn't always work, but you can usually get at least a bite on them, which means you can come back and finish them off, a teammate can, or the commander spams them medpacks. Any of those is a victory for the skulk, even if the skulk dies, because even medpacks cost res, and skulks are 7 second respawned freebies. Never run directly at a marine. This should be a given, as it provides them to easy of an aiming reference. ("Gee, he's moving this fast, straight at me, so if I aim 3 feet in front of me, he'll take the full blast and go down in one shot") Of course, there's always Leap if you have two hives. Leap not with the intent of landing right in front of them, but over their head. Then turn and leap back. Alot of marines will compensate for the first one, but when you leap back by them, THAT's when you bite. The more a shotgunner is forced to move his xhair while shooting, the better your chances are, because that shotgun has a delay (though smaller now) between shots.
If you're going up against HA/shotties as a skulk, you should just be a meatshield or distraction for other lifeforms to finish them off.
Parasite them before going in. If you don't take them down, odds are another Skulk will be able to attack them from a different angle. If the shotgunner is ubar, then you all know where he is, so you can avoid him <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--The Finch+Aug 18 2003, 11:55 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (The Finch @ Aug 18 2003, 11:55 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Parasite them before going in. If you don't take them down, odds are another Skulk will be able to attack them from a different angle. If the shotgunner is ubar, then you all know where he is, so you can avoid him <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> yes thats th 2nd best advice para!!!
<!--QuoteBegin--DSSG_Nitro+Aug 18 2003, 10:54 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DSSG_Nitro @ Aug 18 2003, 10:54 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Best advice is to set a nice ambush, but then if the marine looks at his mini-map.... <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Sit on a celing and wait, cloak your self if you can and wait. 1 v 1 SG pwnz a Skulk, so ambush is your best friend!
Paraphrasing Zapp Brannigan the best starship captain of the whole universe of the year 3000 whose tactical skill is only surpassed by his beauty:
"You see shotguns have a preset kill limit. Knowing their weakness, I sent wave after wave of my alien brethren at them. Until they ran out of ammo and died"
MouseThe Lighter Side of PessimismJoin Date: 2002-03-02Member: 263Members, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
Start up a LAN game by yourself and go marines and get yourself a shotty. Fill up on ammo and find a quiet part of the map. Then just fire it at a wall or into the air and listen to it firing (close your eyes if you want to).
The purpose of this exercise is so you memorise the timing of the blasts. After each shot is fired they have about half a second where they can't shoot. Use this time to take a quick 'breather' or attack if you are close enough. When the half second is almost over, it's time to do something random; ie. dodge the **** out of there because another blast is coming.
After you have (hopefully) dodged the 10 blasts (assuming he isn't dead already), move in for the kill.
I highly recommend choosing regen beforehand.
The best I have ever managed using this technique was in 1.04. The marine was crouching in the shadows on the curved ceiling above the holoroom double node on hera. I leapt from the walkway to processing. He fired and missed. I was in his face now. i took a bite or two out of him. And without thinking I stepped around to his right; milliseconds later a blast from his shotty scorched where I had just been. I took another bite out of him and killed him.
I find the best counter (speaking as a decent shotgunner) is actually to jump while you attack. It may seem strange, but most shotgunners aim slightly low. Also, leap. Speed sucks when you're a shotgunner, and nothing sucks like a skulk whipping into you.
The best game to practise dodging machinegun fire is Perfect Dark. The best game to dodge shotgun fire is good ole Team Fortress Classic.
Shotgun dodging is as much an art as machinegun dodging, and it's tricky. It's made much harder by the beefed up fire rate, but it's by no means impossible. The hardest thing to get your head around is that the basic premise is totally different. The basic idea of machinegun dodging is that you avoid the stream of bullets, and <i>never ever</i> cross the line of fire. The basic idea of shotgun dodging is to cross as many times as you can, to move totally unpredictably. Straight lines will work against machineguns (assuming they aren't straight at the marine <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->) but will get you killed very quickly against shotguns.
The trick is, as I said, to be unpredictable. It's easier with a lower fire-rate shotgun, but anticipate where the next shot is going to go and change your movement vector <i>just</i> before it arrives. Now, what do I mean by movement vector? Either change your direction, change your speed, or both. But the trick is to do it at the last instant, just before the next shot arrives.
Shotgun dodging won't work against anyone who uses a shotty like a railgun (ie, they point and blast with pinpoint precision), but there are very few people who can consistently do that. That's the "correct" way to use a shotgun; using this technique shotguns were deadly even in 1.04. Fortunately, these people are very rare.
Wow, these many different and very complex strategys of everyones are really great. What I prefer to do however is get level 3 cloaking and sit invisible in the middle of the hall just around a corner and wait for a marine to walk into me, then I bite him twice.
I know this isnt as leetly complex as everyone elses "hop around untill he shoots all 10 shotgun rounds, miraculously missing you with all of them, then charge him and hope you get to him before he reloads 1 shell and blows you away" however I find that my tactics work fine.
Keep your distance and paracite/spit/spike from behind cover. Your aim is to distract and anoy the shotgunner as much as possible whilst staying alive. Rapid strafing from behind cover will usually get him to waste a few shots in flustration. Time it so you emerge from cover between his shots and you will last longer. While the shotgunner is aiming at you a team mate can easily attack him from the other direction, or you can wait till he needs to reload.
This a good technique if you have regen as you can keep going without having to retreat.
personally, I get another skulk to hide with me, and then I go in for a suicide. As soon as I die, or as soon as he runs out of shells, the other guy runs in to finish him off, then guards the shotty until it dissapears. Takes a little teamwork, but it almost always works.
<!--QuoteBegin--trob32+Aug 18 2003, 10:30 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (trob32 @ Aug 18 2003, 10:30 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> OR what is a good counter for them. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> running away, perhaps calling for lerk support. Warning your team of the shotguns that the marines should have. Some other good points were raised, like ambushing, or teamwork, but as a skulk, I do best to stay away from shotguns. As a lerk, I do best to stay away from shotugns. As a gorge... you get the picture.
Comments
It's best to use the shotgun a bit to discover it's strengths and weaknesses and how you can counteract it.
Basically with celerity you have the extra speed to keep out of their range and they have to track faster.
The shotty is most effective when used to suprise close range targets. Around a corner with motion is lethal to a skulk, so scent of fear can also help to avoid getting suprised.
not to mention against the rules - HAX!
Best advice is to set a nice ambush, but then if the marine looks at his mini-map.... <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo-->
Really their is not much u can do, even OC dies pretty quickly with shotties, so a WOL wont help either...
SOmehow, I put 4 bots on my server the other night, they kinda su_cks, getting owned left and right by every average marine, because bots only go aliens <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::onos::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tiny.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::lerk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/lerk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='lerk.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::fade::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/fade.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='fade.gif'><!--endemo--> .
Anyway, and it was very interesting to se bots owning HA with shotties as skulks....
So Iv looked how they attack the marine, and I think that that new way for me, to attack a marine, might be teh answer <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
Ambush
Ambush
Ambush
<!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
If you're going up against HA/shotties as a skulk, you should just be a meatshield or distraction for other lifeforms to finish them off.
yes thats th 2nd best advice
para!!!
Sit on a celing and wait, cloak your self if you can and wait.
1 v 1 SG pwnz a Skulk, so ambush is your best friend!
"You see shotguns have a preset kill limit. Knowing their weakness, I sent wave after wave of my alien brethren at them. Until they ran out of ammo and died"
As a skulk, approach them at their corners if you must charge, other wise, ambush.
The purpose of this exercise is so you memorise the timing of the blasts. After each shot is fired they have about half a second where they can't shoot. Use this time to take a quick 'breather' or attack if you are close enough. When the half second is almost over, it's time to do something random; ie. dodge the **** out of there because another blast is coming.
After you have (hopefully) dodged the 10 blasts (assuming he isn't dead already), move in for the kill.
I highly recommend choosing regen beforehand.
The best I have ever managed using this technique was in 1.04. The marine was crouching in the shadows on the curved ceiling above the holoroom double node on hera. I leapt from the walkway to processing. He fired and missed. I was in his face now. i took a bite or two out of him. And without thinking I stepped around to his right; milliseconds later a blast from his shotty scorched where I had just been. I took another bite out of him and killed him.
The marine in question was Humbaba.
Shotgun dodging is as much an art as machinegun dodging, and it's tricky. It's made much harder by the beefed up fire rate, but it's by no means impossible. The hardest thing to get your head around is that the basic premise is totally different. The basic idea of machinegun dodging is that you avoid the stream of bullets, and <i>never ever</i> cross the line of fire. The basic idea of shotgun dodging is to cross as many times as you can, to move totally unpredictably. Straight lines will work against machineguns (assuming they aren't straight at the marine <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->) but will get you killed very quickly against shotguns.
The trick is, as I said, to be unpredictable. It's easier with a lower fire-rate shotgun, but anticipate where the next shot is going to go and change your movement vector <i>just</i> before it arrives. Now, what do I mean by movement vector? Either change your direction, change your speed, or both. But the trick is to do it at the last instant, just before the next shot arrives.
Shotgun dodging won't work against anyone who uses a shotty like a railgun (ie, they point and blast with pinpoint precision), but there are very few people who can consistently do that. That's the "correct" way to use a shotgun; using this technique shotguns were deadly even in 1.04. Fortunately, these people are very rare.
I know this isnt as leetly complex as everyone elses "hop around untill he shoots all 10 shotgun rounds, miraculously missing you with all of them, then charge him and hope you get to him before he reloads 1 shell and blows you away" however I find that my tactics work fine.
This a good technique if you have regen as you can keep going without having to retreat.
And if you got 2 hives, leap like a madman, spiral leap in corridors,and leap straight at him when he least expects it.
Or you could just call for backup from a Fade or Onos
BUT if you know you are going to die toe on toe with the shotty,parasite him before he gets to you,preferably at the start of the brawl
running away, perhaps calling for lerk support. Warning your team of the shotguns that the marines should have.
Some other good points were raised, like ambushing, or teamwork, but as a skulk, I do best to stay away from shotguns. As a lerk, I do best to stay away from shotugns. As a gorge... you get the picture.
1. Ambush them.
2. Lerk and spore/spike them from a range.
3. Celerity.
4. <b>Teamwork.</b>