Marines/aliens Evening Out
SDJason
Join Date: 2003-05-29 Member: 16841Members
Join Date: 2003-05-29 Member: 16841Members
<div class="IPBDescription">im seeing it</div> To tell the truth.. on pubs and clan servers.. im starting to see the win/loss ratio's evening out... as each race is starting to adapt to tactics
Some things im seeing now that i diddnt before
Marines DONT spend all starting res immediately, and cap a node right off with start res so as to be able to grow faster later.
Marines ARENT turret farming EVERYTHING, only to have a gorge take it all out
Marines ARE learning that one person with regular thru traffic can effectively guard a 20 res node investment from everything but a mass attack
Marines ARE learning the value of motion tracking
Marines ARE learning the value of res nodes
Marines ARE learning how to set onos traps, and bait onii into mines
Marines ARE working as a team
Marines ARE sending out strike parties to take down alien res
Marines ARE building obs everywhere to counter sensories
Marines ARE effectively welding stuff
Marines ARE learning not to die with 40 res worth of gear on to chase down a 0 res skulk... who is baitin u into the cloaked onos to begin with
Marines ARE learing to listen to the commander occasionally
Marines ARE learning the vents, so as to ambush skulks as they come out
Marines ARE learning how to spot for the siege and let IT kill the O chamber, rather than die to it because you dont know how to duck behind a corner
Just what ive been seeing both on pubs and clan servers
~Jason
Some things im seeing now that i diddnt before
Marines DONT spend all starting res immediately, and cap a node right off with start res so as to be able to grow faster later.
Marines ARENT turret farming EVERYTHING, only to have a gorge take it all out
Marines ARE learning that one person with regular thru traffic can effectively guard a 20 res node investment from everything but a mass attack
Marines ARE learning the value of motion tracking
Marines ARE learning the value of res nodes
Marines ARE learning how to set onos traps, and bait onii into mines
Marines ARE working as a team
Marines ARE sending out strike parties to take down alien res
Marines ARE building obs everywhere to counter sensories
Marines ARE effectively welding stuff
Marines ARE learning not to die with 40 res worth of gear on to chase down a 0 res skulk... who is baitin u into the cloaked onos to begin with
Marines ARE learing to listen to the commander occasionally
Marines ARE learning the vents, so as to ambush skulks as they come out
Marines ARE learning how to spot for the siege and let IT kill the O chamber, rather than die to it because you dont know how to duck behind a corner
Just what ive been seeing both on pubs and clan servers
~Jason
Comments
You still win at least half of the time as Alien, even when not taking it seriously, against Marines that are working their butts off.
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Marines ARE learning that one person with regular thru traffic can effectively guard a 20 res node investment from everything but a mass attack
Marines ARE learning the value of motion tracking
Marines ARE learning the value of res nodes
Marines ARE learning how to set onos traps, and bait onii into mines
Marines ARE working as a team
Marines ARE sending out strike parties to take down alien res
Marines ARE building obs everywhere to counter sensories
Marines ARE effectively welding stuff
Marines ARE learning not to die with 40 res worth of gear on to chase down a 0 res skulk... who is baitin u into the cloaked onos to begin with
Marines ARE learing to listen to the commander occasionally
Marines ARE learning the vents, so as to ambush skulks as they come out
Marines ARE learning how to spot for the siege and let IT kill the O chamber, rather than die to it because you dont know how to duck behind a corner <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ummm we have alrdy adapted to all of that. And always have been.
As for 2.0, aliens still have a pretty big advantage due their insane teching speed.
Pub stats are not a good way to balance NS. Because of their design, the alien team will always be more permissive to "deathmatchy" play than the more organized and more demanding marine team. If you're expecting 50/50 on pubs, keep dreaming. These fixes aren't going in to compensate for crappy newb commanding and poor teamwork. If you ARE getting 50/50 on pubs, that doesn't mean it's balanced. That means that the aliens are getting screwed if you pit two good teams of equal skill against each other.
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Marine's didn't seem to have much of a problem in 1.04 with winning rounds... and I'm not talking about JP rushing solely. This game is played on pubs, its not like its some elitist software that we are "allowed" to use on pub servers. We are what its here for. So I'd say it being balanced on pubs isn't too bad of a way to do it. Or you could have all 20 clanners who are left when everyone gets bored of NS cause its only balanced for clan play duke it out. That would definitely make rankign the clans easier!
I was playing on the ARS clan server today for about 5 or 6 hours this morning, each time going marines. I had to have played 10 or 12 games total, the majority of the time with a great set of marines. I comed maybe 2 of those games. Guess how many times we won? None. I dont see the Marines/aliens evening out at all on public servers.
Just my observations and opinion.
Marines ARENT turret farming EVERYTHING, only to have a gorge take it all out
Marines ARE learning that one person with regular thru traffic can effectively guard a 20 res node investment from everything but a mass attack
Marines ARE learning the value of motion tracking
Marines ARE learning the value of res nodes
Marines ARE learning how to set onos traps, and bait onii into mines
Marines ARE working as a team
Marines ARE sending out strike parties to take down alien res
Marines ARE building obs everywhere to counter sensories
Marines ARE effectively welding stuff
Marines ARE learning not to die with 40 res worth of gear on to chase down a 0 res skulk... who is baitin u into the cloaked onos to begin with
Marines ARE learing to listen to the commander occasionally
Marines ARE learning the vents, so as to ambush skulks as they come out
Marines ARE learning how to spot for the siege and let IT kill the O chamber, rather than die to it because you dont know how to duck behind a corner <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
So you're saying you never saw all of these in 1.04 with comms who refused to JP/HMG lame their way to victory?
...Because frankly, nothing's really changed.
Even on the second day of 2.0's release, people noticed how easy it was for aliens to win and worked their butts off. But the point is that any decent comm who didn't abuse 1.04 HMG/JP tech rushing required these exact same things, and you'd bet people would listen (well obviously except for things like building obs at every TF spot).
Oddly enough, the 9/10 alien win people are talking about in pubs is eerily reminiscent of the 9/10 alien win that happened in the tournies.
In short, get back to bed and start dreaming, cause they got something on you.
I actually do beleive that 2.0 is balanced for Pub play or more or less larger group play, but as for smaller group play its really heavily in the aliens favor. I think the difference is the firepower that an armslab upgrade provides is quite a bit different with many marines than a few. Also, more marines mean more territory they can cover. I know it sounds odd, but try it and see for yourself.
I can proved that marines are equal to aliens in larger games, I just need to get the data out of a couple of server stats pages.
On the other extreme, I can also argue that in massive games, the aliens get INSANE res to begin(since its 25 res/player) and can quickly take the map. But this is actually countered by the swarming armslabe bonus. So its really the small games only that aliens own.
Its a shame that most leagues only do 6vs6, which IMO is way to darn small for a FPS/RTS hybrid.
They need miracles and crappy teams? I don't get where you're going with this.
I stopped playing NS 2.0 for a while, and chose to focus on the other "HL" mods out there, mostly the SP ones. I'll swing back when there's an official 2.01 patch, since 1.01 and up just kept getting better. 1.04 took over 2 months to spit out.. it's only been one month at 2.0, and they devs are trying.
Some things im seeing now that i diddnt before
Marines DONT spend all starting res immediately, and cap a node right off with start res so as to be able to grow faster later.
Marines ARENT turret farming EVERYTHING, only to have a gorge take it all out
Marines ARE learning that one person with regular thru traffic can effectively guard a 20 res node investment from everything but a mass attack
Marines ARE learning the value of motion tracking
Marines ARE learning the value of res nodes
Marines ARE learning how to set onos traps, and bait onii into mines
Marines ARE working as a team
Marines ARE sending out strike parties to take down alien res
Marines ARE building obs everywhere to counter sensories
Marines ARE effectively welding stuff
Marines ARE learning not to die with 40 res worth of gear on to chase down a 0 res skulk... who is baitin u into the cloaked onos to begin with
Marines ARE learing to listen to the commander occasionally
Marines ARE learning the vents, so as to ambush skulks as they come out
Marines ARE learning how to spot for the siege and let IT kill the O chamber, rather than die to it because you dont know how to duck behind a corner. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Marines ARE still looseing alot more than they are winning.
You call winning 1 out of 4 games "evening out".
Just because marines have learned how to scrape a win out of massive alien inadequacy does not mean the game has suddenly become balanced.
What servers were you playing on?
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Sure, research JP's after HA and give them to a few rambos to go vent-clearing, but don't outfit the whole team with them. A group of 4 or 5 HA, plus HMG/Gren, welders and weap/armor upgrades = alien nightmare.
But aside from that, yeah, I'm seeing a few more marine wins.
Marine's didn't seem to have much of a problem in 1.04 with winning rounds... and I'm not talking about JP rushing solely. This game is played on pubs, its not like its some elitist software that we are "allowed" to use on pub servers. We are what its here for. So I'd say it being balanced on pubs isn't too bad of a way to do it. Or you could have all 20 clanners who are left when everyone gets bored of NS cause its only balanced for clan play duke it out. That would definitely make rankign the clans easier! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
That is because in 1.04 marines were grossly overpowered. Mowing through skulks left and right was almost a joke. Besides, what some people are really asking for is not balancing for pub play. They want it balanced for "crappy marine play". Because some pubs had very good organization and tactics, while others did not. People who want "balanced for pub play", are asking for the game to be balanced when marines play disorganized and sloppily. Except when it is balanced in this fashion, it means that any marine team that IS organized will completely dominate the aliens. This is EXACTLY what happened in 1.04, and is EXACTLY what **** most people off about NS.
NS balancing does not exist to protect people from their own crappy playing. If your comm is clueless and/or you don't listen to him, you will lose. Exactly how it should be.
I would like to see it go up to 7v7. Just a thought.
Actually they polled the people involved in playing and they voted 6-6. I'd say at LEAST 7-7, if not 8-8. However, you'd have to revamp the current res system, of course.
There is enough diversity in the teams that they even themselves out. Plus the commander has enough people to make 2-3 squads all with different tasks.. and still defend base WITHOUT a turret farm
2 days ago i played on Ralphys Server.. and we won 3 games in a row on 2 different maps.
Yesterday i played for 4 hours.... and lost 2 out of about 4 games...
Ive been winning more and more....
People are learning the maps... and realizing that if you turret farm THIS and THIS.... the aliens cant get past to THIS... eliminating that third turret farm
Also rapid teching gives marines a chance against early onos and fade.....
But basically... larger games.. especially ralphy's 15v15 vastly even out the odds... since aliens get res slowly no matter how many nodes they get..
~Jason
hives can go up in 3-5 minutes from the begining of the game, and fades even before them.. 2 skilled fades can take out as many turrets as they wish with one hive..
game in 2.0 is 80\20 for aliens in best..
to solve it, from what i understood in 2.0a\b\c aliens are being nerfed so much the turns swiched...
in d' i heard its better but unbalanced yet..
we didn't find the magic forumla yet..
1.04 was "about" balanced.. it was all about 3 things: 1) did any team managed to rush seccessfuly 2)did any team managed to tech rush very fast early game 4) first team to get mass onoses\ha..
it was almost that simple, it wasn't bad but it grown boring after some time..
im happy from all the changes but they aren't polished yet..