<!--QuoteBegin--Ollj+Aug 29 2003, 12:57 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ollj @ Aug 29 2003, 12:57 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> One Marine Can Make No Difference??? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> do that in 2.0, and aliens die. marines should be same way <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--::esuna::+Aug 29 2003, 07:16 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (::esuna:: @ Aug 29 2003, 07:16 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--mousiehamster+Aug 29 2003, 12:36 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (mousiehamster @ Aug 29 2003, 12:36 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> [... long post about how good you are ...] <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Well, to be honest, you have the wrong attitude. Sorry, but you feel that just because you killed 12 skulks without dying you achieved something and feel you should have won the game.
That's a pile of crap.
The fact is your 12 consecutive kills WERE useless. They had no bearing in the game, you killed them and they respawned. The commander <b>needs</b> good players with a good aim on his side and taking down hives. You achieved nothing, and your team lost because of their "best shot" not cooperating with the team.
You seem to think that the teamwork "excuse" is just a cop-out because you feel that you're better than the rest of your team, well you're wrong. A team of half-arsed marines with a good commander and good teamwork can take down an alien team, a team of excellent players with no teamwork will lose the game.
Are you beginning to understand me? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Ow, ensuna nailed that one. I was gonna say the same exact thing...I was, really. But now I'll say something else.
Go play the aliens if you want to rambo. The orginal idea of the game was for the aliens to be almost completly rambos (Little bit of teamwork here and there, like a gorge healing an attacking onos, or a lerk umbraing a bile bombing gorge) and the marines to have utter cooperation. Its fun that way.
EDIT:: Oh my god, I just thought of a really cool slogan for the TSA Marines thats a rip from the Army...of America.. Hows this...
If you want to rambo, don't play aliens either. We've enough problems with res hoarders.
Second, you don't get medpacks if you rambo off. You also don't get medpacks when you're a L0 LA LMG vanilla marine. Because if you're a rambo vanilla marine, you are of NO REDEEMING VALUE. Once you're working together, you're valuable. Once you've got better guns, you're valuable.
You lost because you ramboed about doing what YOU thought best, without the remotest understanding of the game mechanics (it would appear).
Get in the chair more, and if you find you can't comm at all, then shaddapa your face and do what The Man tells you.
matsoMaster of PatchesJoin Date: 2002-11-05Member: 7000Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Squad Five Gold, Reinforced - Shadow, NS2 Community Developer
Medpacks are expensive and only used in time/location sensitive areas. A good, non-HA/JP marine in the marine base doesn't ask for medpacks - he just recalls to the mothership and gets fixed up as new (aka /kill), for a cost of 20 seconds worth of lost time.
Necrosis, I agree. I see much too much rez wasted on vanilla marine medpack spam from newer/n00b/stupid/lamer commanders. Just my last game, we had an excellent commander and had managed to lock down 2 hives after playing the mystical magical game of musical hives (very good alien team, never saw so many bilebombs in my life <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->) with HAs on the way with level 3 weaps and level 2 armor. Looked like it was just clean up time...
But alas! Our comm must have had not payed his electric bill, because he promptly left in the middle of giving us an order and did not return. So, before I can run back to the CC and try to secure our victory, someone hops in and assumes the title of Comm. He's nowhere near the caliber of the former, and immedeately spends the 90 rez we have on HMGs... and nothing else, except the spamming of medpacks at our ragtag pathetic HMG "rush" on a hive. Obviously, some 1.04 putz. I try to be as helpful as I can (ask for a shottie or GL instead, tell him to upgrade armor one more time, tell him to drop some HAs on a few of us and make sure we don't lose any of our locked down hives until we can get the rest of the team heavy) but he doesn't communicate at all, neither through typing nor voice and assumed it couldn't get any worse.
But I misjudged him. After coming to the realization that his HMG "rush" failed and now he had nothing to show for it except 2 less nodes due to negligence he made a silent and swift departure.
<i>Oh, foolish surrogate Comm! Why do you always screw your teamates over and promptly flee the battlefield, reeking of stupidity and cowardice so strongly that eyes must be averted to keep oneself from feeling dirty? Perhaps you run to greener fields where all that you can touch will become charred and lifeless, a carbon copy of what remains of ours.
Oh, foolish surrogate Comm, **** YOU!</i>
But I thought I'd mention there IS a time and a place for dropping med packs for the vanilla ices out there, and that's when it's at a critical choke point at a critical time. Two of your five vanilla marines remain after repelling an onos and gorge, the TF and Phasegate down. Both of them are about to keel over from a parasite... GIVE THEM THE MEDPACKS AND HAVE THEM BUILD THAT PG! By "saving" those 8 rez, you end up losing a lot more (TF, 5 Turrets, RT, etc) if they die. Like I said, a time and place for it. This by no means justifies spamming medpacks to 5 marines at a node not too far away from base if they hear a skulk. If they're jacking around at base, NOT following my orders, I tell them (agitatedly) to kill themselves as it saves res and wipes out your parasite if they're afflicted so. If they ask nicely for it at base because they have big egos or if because they're kinda new I tell them (nicely) to kill themselves as it saves res and wipes out parasite if they're afflicted so. Heck, sometimes I kill myself when I'm parasited and mostly full life just because it bothers me so much to have a target hanging from my neck while we "covertly" try to build a TF and siege Computer Core...
<!--QuoteBegin--mousiehamster+Aug 29 2003, 11:36 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (mousiehamster @ Aug 29 2003, 11:36 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Hi, I think Natural Selection is a great game that promotes teamwork but now I think NS is doing <i>too much</i> of that. The problem lies in marine gameplay imo. You see, I've been playin' Fps's for quite a while now, and my aim is pretty exemplary. My decision making, tactics, teamwork is all pretty good. In other words, I'm a pretty good player. Usually the best player in the HK servers I play in. I used to go fer aliens but then they seemed to beat the marines... alot. WHen I was alien, I am usually top scorer btw. So I thought hmm wonder if it would make a difference if I joined the Marine team (plus, comm can give directions - yer won't lose ur way on a map). The answer is actually no. No difference. THe rine team still lost like before, mabye in a longer time - but still defeat. I've played quite a few games as rines now, and NONE of 'em yield a single victory. I'm absolutely fine with that - providing that the other team OUTSKILLS ours. But this is not the case. So here I was, runnin' around with a few of my mates to the waypoint (initial skulk rush fended off). There are like 4-5 of us there and we're off to capture a res node. Along the way, we meet a coupla skulks. We slaughter 'em, whilst losing a member or two. After about 5 minutes, our team is down to what, 2 guys? Me n' some other semi-experience dude. 2 skulks come along for an ambush, I kill one he kills the other. A few seconds later, another 2 skulks come up and chew him up - I'm right behind him so I"m like WHOA - and I take down one skulk with lmg, switch to pistol and take down the other. Both are within 2 metre range... The later segments of the game aren't really worth mentioning - I continue to live and fight, kill more skulks, fades, gorges but no lerks and no onos - estimated time of my survival is 20 mins. In the process, I kill around 12 skulks consecutively? I would assume that that's a prettty decent achievement (Noone in my team has survived that long). But the the thing is, our team <i>still</i> got overrun by onos and other higher level alien lifeforms. What the heck? I risk my neck out there, do well and no reward no nothin' and STILL somehow the ALIEN team wins? How is that possible? I play another game and history repeats itself. I don't do quite as well as last game but wth at least I caught 4 skulks before dying n' still we lose! Erm... can anyone explain to me why? I've been slaughterin' those pesky speed-freaks and still they manage to get SUPER ALIENS OUT fast? It's as if the kills were never registered! As if killing those dozens of skulks had NO effect at all! Then what's the point of killing? Man, one marine can't make a difference, I can't believe that. Teamwork, blah blah blah, yes I know this game rewards the player who works in teams and such but still! Absolutely no effect with my presence? I would assume that there would be absolutely no effect even if some super CAL dude joined the server. But for aliens... it's a bit different. One good skulk could destroy squads of marines. And a crappy skulk is a dangerous skulk. A good skulk is... critical.
So that's my opinion... um... who agrees with me? Oh yeah, forgot about the solution - I'll think of that later <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Own fame stincks...
If you are mad that you can't go an entire game without dying, then you are missing the point of the game. You will die. You ARE cannon fodder. Get over it, get out there, stick together, and fight.
Hamster, you are not a tenth as good as you think you are at playing NS. Sure you look good playing the lackys, but you have a mcuh weaker understanding of NS then you think you have. Any one can shoot up skulks one at a time, and a player like that will never make a difference. Sure most of the game rests on the shoulders of the comm, but all it takes is one marine that attempts the impossible and succeeds to shift the advantage over. The first day I played NS I saw one marine do such a thing, and I have apsired to sense then to always help the underdogs beat the odds.
Look, I was stickin' with my teammates. Everyone was screamin' for packs and the comm didn't give any. Wth if he gave us a few we could probably have probably seized the whole map. I mean c'mon 6 of us all riskin' our necks out there!! Yes, I have absolutely no knowledge about Hive Locations & blah blah blah but comm doens't give wps. We were winning or it seemed like it anyway - we were plowing through hordes of 'em pesky buggers and then wth suddenly big Fades and mean Onos come along and we have no chance because we're all frickin' separated and pushed back to base! Look, there was some other dude in the server on the aliens side and he was pretty good. He set little ambushes from ceilings and all this other whacky stuff & damn right he made a difference. He killed alot of marines and guess what? We couldn't secure no res nodes, no hives no nothin' coz we had so little people. And plus, that skulk soon evolved into onos and we were doubly screwed. That guy certainly DID make a difference by slaughterin' us hapless marines.
Comments
do that in 2.0, and aliens die. marines should be same way <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
Well, to be honest, you have the wrong attitude. Sorry, but you feel that just because you killed 12 skulks without dying you achieved something and feel you should have won the game.
That's a pile of crap.
The fact is your 12 consecutive kills WERE useless. They had no bearing in the game, you killed them and they respawned. The commander <b>needs</b> good players with a good aim on his side and taking down hives. You achieved nothing, and your team lost because of their "best shot" not cooperating with the team.
You seem to think that the teamwork "excuse" is just a cop-out because you feel that you're better than the rest of your team, well you're wrong. A team of half-arsed marines with a good commander and good teamwork can take down an alien team, a team of excellent players with no teamwork will lose the game.
Are you beginning to understand me? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ow, ensuna nailed that one. I was gonna say the same exact thing...I was, really. But now I'll say something else.
Go play the aliens if you want to rambo. The orginal idea of the game was for the aliens to be almost completly rambos (Little bit of teamwork here and there, like a gorge healing an attacking onos, or a lerk umbraing a bile bombing gorge) and the marines to have utter cooperation. Its fun that way.
EDIT:: Oh my god, I just thought of a really cool slogan for the TSA Marines thats a rip from the Army...of America.. Hows this...
<span style='color:yellow'>An Army of Five</span>
<span style='color:white'>|</span><span style='color:green'>TSA</span><span style='color:white'>|</span>
<span style='color:blue'><b>Marines</b></span>
Second, you don't get medpacks if you rambo off. You also don't get medpacks when you're a L0 LA LMG vanilla marine. Because if you're a rambo vanilla marine, you are of NO REDEEMING VALUE. Once you're working together, you're valuable. Once you've got better guns, you're valuable.
You lost because you ramboed about doing what YOU thought best, without the remotest understanding of the game mechanics (it would appear).
Get in the chair more, and if you find you can't comm at all, then shaddapa your face and do what The Man tells you.
But alas! Our comm must have had not payed his electric bill, because he promptly left in the middle of giving us an order and did not return. So, before I can run back to the CC and try to secure our victory, someone hops in and assumes the title of Comm. He's nowhere near the caliber of the former, and immedeately spends the 90 rez we have on HMGs... and nothing else, except the spamming of medpacks at our ragtag pathetic HMG "rush" on a hive. Obviously, some 1.04 putz. I try to be as helpful as I can (ask for a shottie or GL instead, tell him to upgrade armor one more time, tell him to drop some HAs on a few of us and make sure we don't lose any of our locked down hives until we can get the rest of the team heavy) but he doesn't communicate at all, neither through typing nor voice and assumed it couldn't get any worse.
But I misjudged him. After coming to the realization that his HMG "rush" failed and now he had nothing to show for it except 2 less nodes due to negligence he made a silent and swift departure.
<i>Oh, foolish surrogate Comm! Why do you always screw your teamates over and promptly flee the battlefield, reeking of stupidity and cowardice so strongly that eyes must be averted to keep oneself from feeling dirty? Perhaps you run to greener fields where all that you can touch will become charred and lifeless, a carbon copy of what remains of ours.
Oh, foolish surrogate Comm, **** YOU!</i>
But I thought I'd mention there IS a time and a place for dropping med packs for the vanilla ices out there, and that's when it's at a critical choke point at a critical time. Two of your five vanilla marines remain after repelling an onos and gorge, the TF and Phasegate down. Both of them are about to keel over from a parasite... GIVE THEM THE MEDPACKS AND HAVE THEM BUILD THAT PG! By "saving" those 8 rez, you end up losing a lot more (TF, 5 Turrets, RT, etc) if they die. Like I said, a time and place for it. This by no means justifies spamming medpacks to 5 marines at a node not too far away from base if they hear a skulk. If they're jacking around at base, NOT following my orders, I tell them (agitatedly) to kill themselves as it saves res and wipes out your parasite if they're afflicted so. If they ask nicely for it at base because they have big egos or if because they're kinda new I tell them (nicely) to kill themselves as it saves res and wipes out parasite if they're afflicted so. Heck, sometimes I kill myself when I'm parasited and mostly full life just because it bothers me so much to have a target hanging from my neck while we "covertly" try to build a TF and siege Computer Core...
<!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif'><!--endemo-->
So that's my opinion... um... who agrees with me? Oh yeah, forgot about the solution - I'll think of that later <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Own fame stincks...
there are many times where if I as a marine had decided to do things slightly differently we woulda won/lost the game
I am moving tomorrow; it is late, I will try to state specific examples later
but since it is true, think for yourself in the meantime