Why Don't I Ever See Gorges Or Lerks Redeem?

JohnnySmash · August 2003

<div class="IPBDescription">You'd think it'd be better than regen...</div> Read the title. Gorges aren't great fighters 1 on 1, although some people can pull it off- I'd think it'd be better to just let yourself redeem to live to build another day. And if you're getting shot at as a Lerk you're probably in a bad position anyways, so I'd think you'd rather Redeem than use Regen to live for a few more bullets.

EDIT: oh yeah, not to mention the 10-30 res you'd save.

Is there something I'm missing? <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'>

-JohnnySmash

Unknown · August 2003

Well, gorges to me have improved significantly than the previous patch. If your a smart gorge you will travel in packs. As for the redeeming part, you must have to get really low on health for it to really do anything.

JohnnySmash · August 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> ([TB]-Rage-[Lt.Gen] @ Aug 30 2003, 12:45 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Well, gorges to me have improved significantly than the previous patch. If your a smart gorge you will travel in packs. As for the redeeming part, you must have to get really low on health for it to really do anything.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
Well yeah, that's the idea I thought. It saves you from dying. If you're not dead who cares if you're at full health- redeem has your back. You can always have another gorge heal you too.

-JohnnySmash

Kwil · August 2003

Simply because you don't play on the servers I'm on.
Redeeming gorge = Base destroying gorge, so far as I'm concerned.

I'm free to spend all my res setting up a little outpost to take out a base from, and don't worry about not having the res to re-gorge if I don't manage to get away from the turrets/phase-gating marine in time.

I haven't found redeem as a Lerk works as well. The high speed means I can generally get out of danger before redeeming becomes an issue, but the low armor means that if I can't, I'm usually dead with or without redemption.

Mr_Ed · August 2003

Redemption on gorg is usually a good idea if you are not a good offensive gorg. Although i find that caraprice is a better for me. With the slow speed of a gorg and the need of getting to where you need to build quickly, nothing is worse then being sent all the way across the map to your hive. Along with that gorgs should always be moveing with an escort if they are anywhere near marine activity.

A Lerk would be the worst choice for redemption. They already have so little life you would never be able to actually do your job as a lerk, would be spending all your time flying back to the marine front lines. Best use of a lerk is to play in the vents in early game sporeing and spikeing the light marines. Once they have HA, and hopefully you have at least 2 hives by then you should be spending most of your time hideing behind the fades and onii giving them lots of umbra love. Both of these roles makes regeneration your best bet. If you do take damage you drop back a sec and heal up yourself.

I usually play aliens in quick hit and run tactics with close OT/DT support. For tht reason i rarely use redemption. It seams like a cheap way to play since usually when your teamates need you most *poof* you are gone and they are alone. Caraprice is my favorite since you can take extra damage. Whenever i am attacking i keep a close eye on my life. BEFORE it hits the red zone you should have had time to eat away or turret or clear out a marine or two. Run back for a quick heal and then hit again. This is by far the fastest way to clear the marine infestation. With a platoon of lvl3 marines they can very easily hold back 2-3 onos attacks that all have redemption. Even if you get through and take out a turret or two, by time you redeam, heal and gallop back to the outpost they should have had time to weld up and rebuild anything destroyed. At the same time a smart commander is positioning his marines to hold the line against the next onos rush since he should have a good idea where you are coming from.

Gliss · August 2003

I always choose Regeneration as a Lerk. Because my favorite map to Lerk in is ns_eclipse, I always hang out in the vents near Marine Start. Those vents are all the way on the other side, just outside of the turrets' fire. So you can drop down slowly, shower Umbra, Spores, and go back up. Lerk isn't a suicidal maniac class, it has low health, even with Carapace, and Redemption is pretty much useless, you'll Redeem with like 5 bullets.

The question really is... Why not?

Zek · August 2003

Regen as a Lerk allows you to stay in vents and such and never have to go back to a hive. Redemption as a gorge has fallen out of favor because a gorge's life isn't as important anymore, and redemption is still not very reliable. Cara allows a gorge to defend itself against single enemies and hopefully stay alive long enough to get back to some Ds or a hive, and IMHO is much better if you're setting up a chamber farm.

JeeR · August 2003

I think redemption is pretty much useless with a Lerk because:

-If you are providing assistance to your teamates, and you suddenly go "zoop!" back to your hive, you let them alone and probably weakened (and in the worst case, soon to be dead). Well the fact is, this is the reason why I hate redemp, whatever the class, and whoever has taken it <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'>

-There is a small percentage of chance for redemption to not work in time to redeem you. Redemption is best for Onos since they have a lot of health, providing better chance for redemption to kick in before they die. Onos can take several shotties rounds before their health meter turns red, and thus redeeming saves their sorry b*ttom. A Lerk has very low health, so chances are that if you get nailed, you wont have the time to redeem before getting killed.

-The Lerk has a very good agility and dodging ability, the very best along with the skulk. So if you are shot at, try to dodge. Thus, Redemption isnt very useful. Instead Carapace to sustain more shots, or *REGENERATION* are you friends <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

-The Regeneration ability exists, and it powns the Redemption thingy, at least for the Lerk Class, IMO.

^_^

falloutx2 · August 2003

I never take redeem for anything but it has the rather inconvient habit of redeeming you out of a fight at a critical moment, i.e. when you are the only healing gorge or umbraing lerk.

I like to have more control over where I go. I'd rather not leave it up to some random chance of game mechanics.

Stoneburg · August 2003

Redemption is an "idiot insurance" really. You can take it and hope that it helps you out of stupid situations you get yourself into, or you can take one of the other upgrades and ímprove your performance up to 100%

Gorges beat vanilla Marines in 1 on 1 and only cost 10 res, so I don't see a need for redemption anyway. I go regen (normally) or carapace (if there's D chambers around).

Oh, and it's 'carapace' (and turret without 'n', lerk with 'e' not 'u' etc)

AjaxFisk · August 2003

I usally go with carapace for a gorge.
125 armor is nice.

I also go with regen as a lerk, for hideing in vents.

I very rarely use redeem, as a lerk is usally dead by the time redeem kicks in, and a gorge needs to be at the battle, for bilebombing, just build a few dc's, and run to them if you're low on heath.

Ollj · August 2003

gorge redemption is great, especially with celerity.
you can run INTO any turret farm run arounbd like crazy HAVING EVERY BILEBOMB A HIT:

lerk is a fast defensive unit so redemption makes sense here, too.

biggie · August 2003

on the rare occasion that i actually die as a lerk, redemption wont save me. lerk dies so fast that you wont have time to redeem
people take regen for the simple reason that its like a built-in DC and you can rack up a lot of kills, easily <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/lerk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='lerk.gif'>

Geronimo · August 2003

I always use redemtion as gorge...when I go gorge with redemtion I ony get killed if ambushed by a SGer...I can easily HS tons of ppl down to 60 Health and the redeem safely, come back to my WoL where they all died from 3 shots...and tose that ran I chase down, even if I redeem again(bonus is that you get more res during the time you walk from the hive)

niaccurshi · August 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (JohnnySmash @ Aug 30 2003, 06:40 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Read the title. Gorges aren't great fighters 1 on 1, although some people can pull it off- I'd think it'd be better to just let yourself redeem to live to build another day. And if you're getting shot at as a Lerk you're probably in a bad position anyways, so I'd think you'd rather Redeem than use Regen to live for a few more bullets.

EDIT: oh yeah, not to mention the 10-30 res you'd save.

Is there something I'm missing? <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'>

-JohnnySmash  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
For me personally as a gorge, if I have the option to redem, I have DC's lying around, which means that I will choose carapace. I stick around my DC's, and always try to build one in an area where I might be assailed. This is much more useful than redemption, and it means I can kill the odd marine that tries to stop me too. Without it redemption would mean those marines just destroy my hard work.

For lerks...why redemption? <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'> The only choice is regeneration, seeming lerks defence is to fly away super fast to somewhere that they can use that regeneration <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'> Thats what I do...back off into the vent a little more and let regen do its work away from the bullets.

As long as you have a bit of awareness, you shouldn't need redemption <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

-Lee

JeeR · August 2003

I would add to Lee's post that as a Gorge, it's a really bad thing to redeem if you were on the front:

If your teamates decide to make an assault, taking in account that they saw you hanging around a corridor, if you redeem when they come back to you for Health, you get back to the Hive, where you are pretty useless, and your teamates are in a very tricky position.

The time you get back to your location, they may get slain, because they thought their fattie buddy would help healing them, but unfortunately, he redeemed...

MrMojo · August 2003

Gorges and lerks have a very small chance to redeem succesfuly, while things like regen and carapace prolong their life by a lot.

Corrado · August 2003

I once saw an egg redeem...weirdest thing ever <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'>

SinSpawn · August 2003

As lerk I have always gone with redemption. As I think I'm an ok lerk for the early part of the game, I manage to handle myself with 1 on 1's , if I start to run out on HP I will know redemption will save me, so it does not distract me for a second while im spiking them to death.

Also as lerk I sometimes retreat but only to hit the ceiling and slowly need to get down to get out of the wall, redemption saves me at this point.

Disadvantage: Many times I have been lerk till the end of the game, but when I run low on HP I redeem leaving my teammates without umbra..

taboofires · August 2003

Lerks can run away too fast for spending an upgrade on a slight improvement. Instead, pick something that makes it take longer before you need to run.

A redem gorge is somewhat useful in the early game, when you are more often exposed to unfriendly circumstances. Although regen could very likely allow you to take on one marine and win, redem will save you from the pack of marines. I wouldn't use it for bilebombing tho: all the time you lose waddling back to the location could have been much better spent with regen and some backup (umbra is nice, at least a skulk or two to cover you) biling away without serious interruption. If you redeem, there is a good chance nothing will actually fall, and that will mean your effort was wasted. It should be fully welded by the time you get back. It's kinda like having a redem onos get removed before he kills anything.

As usual, regen is better if you can survive the fight, and carapace is needed if you won't survive till the end otherwise (even if you have to go heal).

NuclearCoreMeltdown · August 2003

I usualy choose regen as a gorge, for the reason that i try not to be alone and i wont be getting hit, also i like to battle heal onos and skulks because it keeps em at the front lines and can make that push on a turret farm or outpost. As for lerk, i dont lerk, its not my style so i stick with skulk, fade or gorge.

Jabba_The_Hunt · August 2003

I choose regen no matter what creature I am (except skulk, which I dont upgrade at all), because regen allows me to function outside of alien territory, and a regen onos gets about 50 health per tick, its enough to survive about 5 turrets long enough to take out the tf, and still have atleast 300 health at the end of it.

bugulu · August 2003

lerks chance to redempt would probably be 40% due to their low hp and armor and lerks are usually running away (flying) after they have shooot out the spores. and lerks usually stays in vent also shoot out spore maybe get hit a coulpe of times then the regeneration will help

Why Don't I Ever See Gorges Or Lerks Redeem?

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