<!--QuoteBegin--Crazy_Monkey+Sep 4 2003, 05:40 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Crazy_Monkey @ Sep 4 2003, 05:40 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--CommunistWithAGun+Sep 4 2003, 03:36 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CommunistWithAGun @ Sep 4 2003, 03:36 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Its funny how the most hardcore religous are the same ones who are one of the firsts to offend <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> In the same way that hardcore musicians, politicians, and gamers are the first to offend. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> So...that makes it OK? Being part of a mass of people will common beliefs, and saying its OK to condemn a certain type of person for whatever is NOT ok. I think being religious is a fulfilling thing for some people, and Im glad they find tranqulity within it. If i started....a cult lets say. We gain a mass following by several million people. We decide that anyone over the height of 5'5 is unholy and should be killed/condemned. Is that OK? Now I warn you I'm about to say something controversial but its to prove my point. I honestly feel homosexuality is a gene disorder...lets assume it really is without a doubt. If it is true, how can "god" codemn someone for being sick?
Nem, I'm not sure if there's a German translation, but I highly recommend reading a book named "Case for Christ" It was researched by a man that was intruinged by his wife's faith and delved into an objective analysis to the accuracy and legitimacy of the Bible and Christianity as a whole.
And Nem, it wasn't very popular to be a Christian in those times, one often got themselves killed for their beliefs, I don't understand what you mean by "political motives", since believing and doing what they believed had to be pretty substantial if they risked death everyday for it.
Let's say you did make a cult Commy, but let's ignore what they believe, let's leave that alone. Now all the sudden I come along, and I say "<i>Yes, Yes I am a fellow cultist, and I believe what you believe, but by the way, I've made some changes to all your ideals, so now everyone is going to get a very warped view of what you believe, and by associating myself with you, it disenfrachises a large amount of what you believe. But I hope that's not a PROBLEM ! Because if you do disagree, you MUST be a bigot !</i>"
<!--QuoteBegin--Crazy_Monkey+Sep 4 2003, 06:08 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Crazy_Monkey @ Sep 4 2003, 06:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> CWAG: I said absolutely nothing about condemming. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> But your a deeply religious person. Sodem and Gomorrah were DESTROYED...not killed....fragged, pwnt, destroyed. Dosen't that correlate to you at all? Or do you think its OK for people to have these relationships, but beg for mercy when they meet Pauly boy at the pearly gates
/edit Im surprised we've managed 3 pages of honest discussion in this sensitive topic tbh...
I've been going through this topic a little and let me see if I can clear this up.
The Bible says that you are saved by grace, and not by works. Whether they are ****, lesbian, a theif, a murderer, an adulturer, or your average Joe that lies to his friends or family. The bible specifies that there are no sins that are worse than any others *with* the exception of sexual sins, as they pervert both the mind and body. Now, keep on reading, this is going somewhere. What Monkey said is not neccesarily right about if a homosexual dies that he is going to Hell. The real difference is if you believe in Jesus as the Son of God, and that He's the only way to Heaven. If you believe in one portion of the Bible, you have to believe in all portions of the Bible. You can't pick and choose what you believe, it's not a schmorgas-board religion. Christians believe that the Bible is the word of God, written by men, and therefore, everything in it is Holy. If you claim to believe in Christ, how can you discount the books and prophecies that were His predecessor? How can you discount the prophesies that made Him what He is? The Bible explicitely states that homosexuality is wrong, and like Monkey said, he even destroyed Soddom and Gamorah over it.
Now, I believe that a homosexual can get saved, I believe that anyone can get saved. I think the major difference between most Christians and Christians in these pro-homosexual coalitions, is that most Christians acknowledge what the Bible says is true, and they try to change. Even if they don't try and change, they know the sins they commit are wrong. That's the major difference. These pro-homosexual Christian groups are pushing for acceptance within Christianity, even though the product and lifestyle they are pushing goes directly against God's Word and His intended will for mankind. You don't see other groups forming up a "pro-murder" group and pushing for it's acceptance within Christianity, because to us it would seem absurd.
The Bible clearly states to love the sinner, but to hate the sin. For a Christian to have a problem with a **** or lesbian just because they are homosexual is wrong. Instead, Christians should realise that the person may not be bad, but the sin they are commiting is. It's the same principle as a prison chaplain ministering to the inmate population, the difference being that homosexuality isn't illegal, and homosexuals don't end up in prisons over it.
<!--QuoteBegin--CommunistWithAGun+Sep 4 2003, 04:11 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CommunistWithAGun @ Sep 4 2003, 04:11 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Crazy_Monkey+Sep 4 2003, 06:08 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Crazy_Monkey @ Sep 4 2003, 06:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> CWAG: I said absolutely nothing about condemming. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> But your a deeply religious person. Sodem and Gomorrah were DESTROYED...not killed....fragged, pwnt, destroyed. Dosen't that correlate to you at all? Or do you think its OK for people to have these relationships, but beg for mercy when they meet Pauly boy at the pearly gates
/edit Im surprised we've managed 3 pages of honest discussion in this sensitive topic tbh... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> The thought of being in a bed with another man makes me nauseous, but I have no thoughts or intentions of killing any homosexuals!
And no one is going to have the choice to beg for mercy. You're dead, the time for choices will have been over.
<!--QuoteBegin--Sirus+Sep 4 2003, 11:07 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sirus @ Sep 4 2003, 11:07 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Nem, I'm not sure if there's a German translation, but I highly recommend reading a book named "Case for Christ" It was researched by a man that was intruinged by his wife's faith and delved into an objective analysis to the accuracy and legitimacy of the Bible and Christianity as a whole. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I'll look out for it.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->And Nem, it wasn't very popular to be a Christian in those times, one often got themselves killed for their beliefs, I don't understand what you mean by "political motives", since believing and doing what they believed had to be pretty substantial if they risked death everyday for it.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This 'underdogism' can be considered a political motif in itself. Most biblical authors were firmly rooted in the judaistic beliefs of their time, namely the absolute rejection of everything originating from the occupant force of the Romans. This led them to try and emphasize the differences between their and the foreign culture as strongly as possible, thus creating a community that was capable of resisting the assimiliation into Roman society. Now consider that the ancient Roman religion accepted homosexuality, and you'll see what I'm getting at.
<!--QuoteBegin--OttoDestruct+Sep 4 2003, 05:09 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (OttoDestruct @ Sep 4 2003, 05:09 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> forgiveness and that **** people are going to go straight to the deepest depths of hell regardless of how they acted in their life, yet the scumbag who went to church will most likely go to heaven.
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Your personal relationship with Jesus gets you into heaven, not going to church. End of Story
And God gave the life of his only son so that whosoever believeth in him shall not die but have eternal life in Him.
<!--QuoteBegin--Crazy_Monkey+Sep 4 2003, 06:17 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Crazy_Monkey @ Sep 4 2003, 06:17 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--CommunistWithAGun+Sep 4 2003, 04:11 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CommunistWithAGun @ Sep 4 2003, 04:11 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Crazy_Monkey+Sep 4 2003, 06:08 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Crazy_Monkey @ Sep 4 2003, 06:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> CWAG: I said absolutely nothing about condemming. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> But your a deeply religious person. Sodem and Gomorrah were DESTROYED...not killed....fragged, pwnt, destroyed. Dosen't that correlate to you at all? Or do you think its OK for people to have these relationships, but beg for mercy when they meet Pauly boy at the pearly gates
/edit Im surprised we've managed 3 pages of honest discussion in this sensitive topic tbh... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> The thought of being in a bed with another man makes me nauseous, but I have no thoughts or intentions of killing any homosexuals!
And no one is going to have the choice to beg for mercy. You're dead, the time for choices will have been over.
(upon the edit: no joke) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I agree the thought makes my stomach turn....but <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->And no one is going to have the choice to beg for mercy. You're dead, the time for choices will have been over.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> So, any non-sexual sinner can be forgiven. Right... <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
I'm saying, once your dead, the time to make the decision is over. Do you think God is going to forgive you and allow you into heaven AFTER you've seen His face? Nuh uh.
<!--QuoteBegin--Crazy_Monkey+Sep 4 2003, 06:25 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Crazy_Monkey @ Sep 4 2003, 06:25 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I'm saying, once your dead, the time to make the decision is over. Do you think God is going to forgive you and allow you into heaven AFTER you've seen His face? Nuh uh. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Agreed.
<!--QuoteBegin--Nemesis Zero+Sep 4 2003, 05:49 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nemesis Zero @ Sep 4 2003, 05:49 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Wheeee+Sep 4 2003, 10:42 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Wheeee @ Sep 4 2003, 10:42 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> *edit* btw nem, I want to see some alternate interpretations of the Bible that say that homosexuality is fine <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> You got a short form in my previous post. As with the "The woman be silent in the church" in St.Pauls letters, it's impossible to understand the true meaning of the verses without of knowing the historical context.
[edit] You can of course use the Bible as basis of your argumentation, but you will have to accept that others (those others including myself) treat the book differently than you. If you can accept that I'm not a complete heretic for asking how the Bible developed, I'm looking forward to an interesting discussion.[/edit2] <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Nemesis, I encourage you to read 1st Corinthians 6:18-20 and 7:19. I look forward to your reply.
<!--c1--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>CODE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='CODE'><!--ec1--> 1 corinthians 6:18-20 18Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a man commits are outside his body, but he who sins sexually sins against his own body. 19 Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; 20 you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your body.
1 corinthians 7:19 19 circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing. Keeping God's commands is what counts.
Matthew 5:17-19 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until and heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven." <!--c2--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--ec2-->
Though the details are definetely hazy, I have to disagree that it was due to homosexuality alone that caused Sodom's fall. Genesis 13: 13 states "they were sinning greatly against the Lord", those sins could of been anything. In addition, they weren't simply trying to request for sex with Lot's guests, they were ready to rape them.
And even if sins against the body our supposedly a "worse" sin, it is still a forgiveable one, and scripture states having a single sin of any kind is enough for death. Thus in that sense, all sins are equal. The only "eternal sin" is blasphemizing the Holy Spirit, but I've heard from my former youth leader that the sin is only "eternal" if you hold on to it and don't regret it, (which I am thankful for, as I have once openly stated to God "**** you".)
CrazyMonkey, you're a genius. I agree with you completely.
Christians are NOT supposed to be ****.
Living a **** life style is living an ALTERNATIVE lifestyle. God created MAN and WOMAN so they could have sex with each other, not the same sex. That's how humans reproduce. *** certainly aren't bad by any means, but if you're going to be ****, then you aren't being Christian. It's as simple as that. The church did the right thing. I win
To preface this post i will warn you that whatever i say will probably end up being controversial or offensive, for that i apologise, i don't mean to offend, it's just i, as you you all, have my own opinions, and i <i>will</i> express them.
Ok. Whoever it was that brought up the 'breed' of Christian that follows the Bible word-for-word should be the only type of Christian. I agree. I wholeheartedly agree. The Bible is the be-all and end-all for the Christian faith. You can't take one part without accepting another, it comes as a package, essentially. I will be the last to condone someone for their religious beliefs, but i will not stand for discrimination based on, what is effectively, a 2000 year old text.
Mankind has evolved, sorry, not evolved, changed, grown up, adapted. Whatever. We are not the same species as we were 2000 years ago. In 2000 years we've gone from savages to, what we consider to be, civilised. In this time two things have become apparent. Homosexuality has become more acceptable, and incest, in general, has become illegal. Does the Bible not condemn homosexuals, but make no effort to condemn incest? (I'm sorry, i would offer a quote, but for the life of me, i can't remember. I'm positive it's in Genesis somewhere)
I would find it impossible to believe that Christians, these days, would not look upon incestious relations as sinful as they regard homosexual relations, a good deal of that through the fact that in this day and age, it's considered both immoral and illegal, but the Bible teaches otherwise. Or at least does not deny it.
In my opinion, the Bible is flawed. I know this may seem like flamebait, but the book was written to be perfect for 2000 years ago, which it may well be, but in these days, a 2000 year old text does not hold nearly enough ground as it once would in the past.
I would find it impossible to believe that Christians, these days, would not look upon incestious relations as sinful as they regard homosexual relations, a good deal of that through the fact that in this day and age, it's considered both immoral and illegal, but the Bible teaches otherwise. Or at least does not deny it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--c1--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>CODE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='CODE'><!--ec1-->1 corinthians 5:1 It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that does not occur even among pagans: a man has his father's wife. And you are proud! Shouldn't you rather have been filled with grief and have put out of your fellowship the man who did this?<!--c2--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--ec2-->
I would find it impossible to believe that Christians, these days, would not look upon incestious relations as sinful as they regard homosexual relations, a good deal of that through the fact that in this day and age, it's considered both immoral and illegal, but the Bible teaches otherwise. Or at least does not deny it. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--c1--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>CODE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='CODE'><!--ec1-->1 corinthians 5:1 It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that does not occur even among pagans: a man has his father's wife. And you are proud! Shouldn't you rather have been filled with grief and have put out of your fellowship the man who did this?<!--c2--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--ec2--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> While i entirely respect that, i'm positive that there's text to the contrary in the bible, i would find it but there's not a bible in the house. I will search for this at a later date, but consider my beaten. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
You and your politcally correctness. YOU MAKE ME SICK <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Really, though, you do have your strong points.
I myself am not Christian or any religion because of all the contradictions. I HAVE, however, read and understood the bible, so dont' call me stupid. I'm not ****, either, just to clarify things.
Incest should not be illegal. I believe it's pretty sickening, but if someone likes their cousin, then, well, that's them.
*** should NOT be allowed to be Christian.
We should go EXACTLY as the bible says, that's why it's there. If we disobey it, we go to hell.
I truly have no problem with ***. I must say, though, that they SHOULD NOT express themselves so openly. They live alternatively, so they should blend in with the rest of us (just like I believe muslims in the US should free themselves of the headgear). I don't want to have to explain to my 5 year old child I may have one day why "that guy" is wearing women's clothes or is dressed in rainbow suspenders. I believe homosexuality can harm younger children. Children should not be introduced to "where babies come from" at a young age. The stork does fine. Homosexuality will be kind of hard to explain to a child who's young.
<!--QuoteBegin--xdeathx2003+Sep 5 2003, 01:20 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (xdeathx2003 @ Sep 5 2003, 01:20 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Simply put, the damn church did the right thing <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> On the basis of religion i agree, they did, but then again they shouldn't have given them permission in the first place (as Nem0 said earlier, i think). Agreeing to it in the first place and then turning around and saying it's sinful delves into the depths of hypocrisy and being, well, a bad Christian.
I would find it impossible to believe that Christians, these days, would not look upon incestious relations as sinful as they regard homosexual relations, a good deal of that through the fact that in this day and age, it's considered both immoral and illegal, but the Bible teaches otherwise. Or at least does not deny it. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--c1--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>CODE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='CODE'><!--ec1-->1 corinthians 5:1 It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that does not occur even among pagans: a man has his father's wife. And you are proud! Shouldn't you rather have been filled with grief and have put out of your fellowship the man who did this?<!--c2--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--ec2--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> While i entirely respect that, i'm positive that there's text to the contrary in the bible, i would find it but there's not a bible in the house. I will search for this at a later date, but consider my beaten. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I think you might be thinking along the lines of Abraham, father of all God's first chosen people, had his son borne to him by his half-sister Sarah.
I don't know... maybe the population was too small at that time, and they couldn't be picky... <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
I would find it impossible to believe that Christians, these days, would not look upon incestious relations as sinful as they regard homosexual relations, a good deal of that through the fact that in this day and age, it's considered both immoral and illegal, but the Bible teaches otherwise. Or at least does not deny it. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--c1--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>CODE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='CODE'><!--ec1-->1 corinthians 5:1 It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that does not occur even among pagans: a man has his father's wife. And you are proud! Shouldn't you rather have been filled with grief and have put out of your fellowship the man who did this?<!--c2--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--ec2--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> While i entirely respect that, i'm positive that there's text to the contrary in the bible, i would find it but there's not a bible in the house. I will search for this at a later date, but consider my beaten. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I think you might be thinking along the lines of Abraham, father of all God's first chosen people, had his son borne to him by his half-sister Sarah.
I don't know... maybe the population was too small at that time, and they couldn't be picky... <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> That's it! I remember, roughly, that it was the choice that someone must sleep with thier father.
While the population of the human race to Christians this seems like a perfectly logical and a bit of a "no-brainer", to my beliefs, mainly of evolution, i can see that this does nothing but encourage incest.
<!--QuoteBegin--::esuna::+Sep 4 2003, 07:27 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (::esuna:: @ Sep 4 2003, 07:27 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> That's it! I remember, roughly, that it was the choice that someone must sleep with thier father.
While the population of the human race to Christians this seems like a perfectly logical and a bit of a "no-brainer", to my beliefs, mainly of evolution, i can see that this does nothing but encourage incest. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I just recalled something else that you might have been referring to - Lot's two daughters decided to get him drunk and get pregnant by him after they escaped Sodom' and Gomorrah's destruction. And as far as I remember, God didn't say anything like "stop doing that".
Oh yeah, Abraham's nephew, Lot, was made drunk enough by his own daughters so that they could have sex with him, thus, continue the family line, (would-be husbands scalded by sulphuric rain back in Sodom).
I must add however that the Bible only stated what happened, it did not condone it.
<!--QuoteBegin--xdeathx2003+Sep 5 2003, 01:29 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (xdeathx2003 @ Sep 5 2003, 01:29 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> ::Esuna::, I agree with you on that.
I believe, however, that when they first built these churches, they didn't anticipate *** trying to be christian.
Or, at least, they didn't anticipate a stampede of *** fighting for equal rights. Pfft. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> That's my point, kinda, there's no anticipation of how the morals and teachings of the Bible will stand 2000 years down the line (where we stand now). The whole anti-g*y issues with the Bible may have been perfectly acceptable in those times, just in today's world of political correctness and abstract morality, are those teachings entirely relevant?
Just as a thought, i, in no way, want to turn this discussion into Christianities influence on current day morals and laws, i'm well aware that the laws against murder, for example, are based on not only Christianity's teachings about "Thou Shalt Not Kill", but a multitude of other religion's similar teachings.
<!--QuoteBegin--Confuzor+Sep 5 2003, 01:31 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Confuzor @ Sep 5 2003, 01:31 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Oh yeah, Abraham's nephew, Lot, was made drunk enough by his own daughters so that they could have sex with him, thus, continue the family line, (would-be husbands scalded by sulphuric rain back in Sodom).
I must add however that the Bible only stated what happened, it did not condone it.
[edit]*dang, beaten*[/edit] <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Urgh, excuse my above comment on you being right, what you say now, about Lot, rings a bell definately and is what i'm thinking of.
Sorry for my incorrectness, it was a pretty vague, but definate, memory, to say the least. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->but i will not stand for discrimination based on, what is effectively, a 2000 year old text.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Actually, while the technology may not be the same today, the sin is the same as it was 6000 years ago when God flooded the earth and saved only Noah and his family. The fact that the New Testament is 2000 years old and it's teachings still apply today is one of the great wonders and beauties of the Bible. How can a timeless God, a God who created time, be bound by time? How can a Bible that was written 2000 years ago but is the inspired work of God be less relevant today than it was then? Are you saying that God created a flawed work?
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->*** should NOT be allowed to be Christian.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> WRONG! Simply and utterly not true. Anyone has the potential and the possibility to be a Christian. If I'm a crack addict and I become a Christian, it will probably take me a while to get off of crack, because it *is* an addiction. Just the same way, people may become Christians and still live the lifestyle. The problem is when they don't see anything wrong, and they try to make everyone else think that it's not wrong Biblically. They are trying to get an action condoned that specifically goes against procreation and the Bible.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I don't know... maybe the population was too small at that time, and they couldn't be picky... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I don't know either, there are many views on what might have happened. I mean, the whole world was populated from Adam and Eve, and then again from Noah's sons. Don't know how that was engineered, it's a point I've often wondered about.
There are many things the bible deems wrong which to modern eyes clearly are acceptable. Sowing two different crops next to each other, and working on the Sabbath are two great examples - it seems ludicrous for these to be wrong. The Bible isn't the word of God - it's the word of God close to 2000 years ago. As a moral guidebook it is antiquated and sorely in need of either an update or at least leniant interpretation.
<!--QuoteBegin--xdeathx2003+Sep 5 2003, 01:36 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (xdeathx2003 @ Sep 5 2003, 01:36 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Esuna, how would they have known that people would suddenly start liking people of the same sex?
I WIN!1 <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Because it was just as rife then, as it was now. Just socially it's more 'acceptable' now.
Comments
In the same way that hardcore musicians, politicians, and gamers are the first to offend. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
So...that makes it OK? Being part of a mass of people will common beliefs, and saying its OK to condemn a certain type of person for whatever is NOT ok. I think being religious is a fulfilling thing for some people, and Im glad they find tranqulity within it. If i started....a cult lets say. We gain a mass following by several million people. We decide that anyone over the height of 5'5 is unholy and should be killed/condemned. Is that OK? Now I warn you I'm about to say something controversial but its to prove my point. I honestly feel homosexuality is a gene disorder...lets assume it really is without a doubt. If it is true, how can "god" codemn someone for being sick?
And Nem, it wasn't very popular to be a Christian in those times, one often got themselves killed for their beliefs, I don't understand what you mean by "political motives", since believing and doing what they believed had to be pretty substantial if they risked death everyday for it.
Let's say you did make a cult Commy, but let's ignore what they believe, let's leave that alone. Now all the sudden I come along, and I say "<i>Yes, Yes I am a fellow cultist, and I believe what you believe, but by the way, I've made some changes to all your ideals, so now everyone is going to get a very warped view of what you believe, and by associating myself with you, it disenfrachises a large amount of what you believe. But I hope that's not a PROBLEM ! Because if you do disagree, you MUST be a bigot !</i>"
But your a deeply religious person. Sodem and Gomorrah were DESTROYED...not killed....fragged, pwnt, destroyed. Dosen't that correlate to you at all? Or do you think its OK for people to have these relationships, but beg for mercy when they meet Pauly boy at the pearly gates
/edit Im surprised we've managed 3 pages of honest discussion in this sensitive topic tbh...
The Bible says that you are saved by grace, and not by works. Whether they are ****, lesbian, a theif, a murderer, an adulturer, or your average Joe that lies to his friends or family. The bible specifies that there are no sins that are worse than any others *with* the exception of sexual sins, as they pervert both the mind and body. Now, keep on reading, this is going somewhere. What Monkey said is not neccesarily right about if a homosexual dies that he is going to Hell. The real difference is if you believe in Jesus as the Son of God, and that He's the only way to Heaven. If you believe in one portion of the Bible, you have to believe in all portions of the Bible. You can't pick and choose what you believe, it's not a schmorgas-board religion. Christians believe that the Bible is the word of God, written by men, and therefore, everything in it is Holy. If you claim to believe in Christ, how can you discount the books and prophecies that were His predecessor? How can you discount the prophesies that made Him what He is? The Bible explicitely states that homosexuality is wrong, and like Monkey said, he even destroyed Soddom and Gamorah over it.
Now, I believe that a homosexual can get saved, I believe that anyone can get saved. I think the major difference between most Christians and Christians in these pro-homosexual coalitions, is that most Christians acknowledge what the Bible says is true, and they try to change. Even if they don't try and change, they know the sins they commit are wrong. That's the major difference. These pro-homosexual Christian groups are pushing for acceptance within Christianity, even though the product and lifestyle they are pushing goes directly against God's Word and His intended will for mankind. You don't see other groups forming up a "pro-murder" group and pushing for it's acceptance within Christianity, because to us it would seem absurd.
The Bible clearly states to love the sinner, but to hate the sin. For a Christian to have a problem with a **** or lesbian just because they are homosexual is wrong. Instead, Christians should realise that the person may not be bad, but the sin they are commiting is. It's the same principle as a prison chaplain ministering to the inmate population, the difference being that homosexuality isn't illegal, and homosexuals don't end up in prisons over it.
But your a deeply religious person. Sodem and Gomorrah were DESTROYED...not killed....fragged, pwnt, destroyed. Dosen't that correlate to you at all? Or do you think its OK for people to have these relationships, but beg for mercy when they meet Pauly boy at the pearly gates
/edit Im surprised we've managed 3 pages of honest discussion in this sensitive topic tbh... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
The thought of being in a bed with another man makes me nauseous, but I have no thoughts or intentions of killing any homosexuals!
And no one is going to have the choice to beg for mercy. You're dead, the time for choices will have been over.
(upon the edit: no joke)
I'll look out for it.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->And Nem, it wasn't very popular to be a Christian in those times, one often got themselves killed for their beliefs, I don't understand what you mean by "political motives", since believing and doing what they believed had to be pretty substantial if they risked death everyday for it.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This 'underdogism' can be considered a political motif in itself. Most biblical authors were firmly rooted in the judaistic beliefs of their time, namely the absolute rejection of everything originating from the occupant force of the Romans. This led them to try and emphasize the differences between their and the foreign culture as strongly as possible, thus creating a community that was capable of resisting the assimiliation into Roman society. Now consider that the ancient Roman religion accepted homosexuality, and you'll see what I'm getting at.
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Your personal relationship with Jesus gets you into heaven, not going to church. End of Story
And God gave the life of his only son so that whosoever believeth in him shall not die but have eternal life in Him.
But your a deeply religious person. Sodem and Gomorrah were DESTROYED...not killed....fragged, pwnt, destroyed. Dosen't that correlate to you at all? Or do you think its OK for people to have these relationships, but beg for mercy when they meet Pauly boy at the pearly gates
/edit Im surprised we've managed 3 pages of honest discussion in this sensitive topic tbh... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The thought of being in a bed with another man makes me nauseous, but I have no thoughts or intentions of killing any homosexuals!
And no one is going to have the choice to beg for mercy. You're dead, the time for choices will have been over.
(upon the edit: no joke) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree the thought makes my stomach turn....but <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->And no one is going to have the choice to beg for mercy. You're dead, the time for choices will have been over.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> So, any non-sexual sinner can be forgiven. Right... <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
Agreed.
You got a short form in my previous post. As with the "The woman be silent in the church" in St.Pauls letters, it's impossible to understand the true meaning of the verses without of knowing the historical context.
[edit]
You can of course use the Bible as basis of your argumentation, but you will have to accept that others (those others including myself) treat the book differently than you. If you can accept that I'm not a complete heretic for asking how the Bible developed, I'm looking forward to an interesting discussion.[/edit2] <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nemesis, I encourage you to read 1st Corinthians 6:18-20 and 7:19. I look forward to your reply.
<!--c1--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>CODE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='CODE'><!--ec1-->
1 corinthians 6:18-20
18Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a man commits are outside his body, but he who sins sexually sins against his own body. 19 Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; 20 you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your body.
1 corinthians 7:19
19 circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing. Keeping God's commands is what counts.
Matthew 5:17-19
"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until and heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven."
<!--c2--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--ec2-->
And even if sins against the body our supposedly a "worse" sin, it is still a forgiveable one, and scripture states having a single sin of any kind is enough for death. Thus in that sense, all sins are equal. The only "eternal sin" is blasphemizing the Holy Spirit, but I've heard from my former youth leader that the sin is only "eternal" if you hold on to it and don't regret it, (which I am thankful for, as I have once openly stated to God "**** you".)
Christians are NOT supposed to be ****.
Living a **** life style is living an ALTERNATIVE lifestyle. God created MAN and WOMAN so they could have sex with each other, not the same sex. That's how humans reproduce. *** certainly aren't bad by any means, but if you're going to be ****, then you aren't being Christian. It's as simple as that. The church did the right thing. I win
To preface this post i will warn you that whatever i say will probably end up being controversial or offensive, for that i apologise, i don't mean to offend, it's just i, as you you all, have my own opinions, and i <i>will</i> express them.
Ok. Whoever it was that brought up the 'breed' of Christian that follows the Bible word-for-word should be the only type of Christian. I agree. I wholeheartedly agree. The Bible is the be-all and end-all for the Christian faith. You can't take one part without accepting another, it comes as a package, essentially. I will be the last to condone someone for their religious beliefs, but i will not stand for discrimination based on, what is effectively, a 2000 year old text.
Mankind has evolved, sorry, not evolved, changed, grown up, adapted. Whatever. We are not the same species as we were 2000 years ago. In 2000 years we've gone from savages to, what we consider to be, civilised. In this time two things have become apparent. Homosexuality has become more acceptable, and incest, in general, has become illegal. Does the Bible not condemn homosexuals, but make no effort to condemn incest? (I'm sorry, i would offer a quote, but for the life of me, i can't remember. I'm positive it's in Genesis somewhere)
I would find it impossible to believe that Christians, these days, would not look upon incestious relations as sinful as they regard homosexual relations, a good deal of that through the fact that in this day and age, it's considered both immoral and illegal, but the Bible teaches otherwise. Or at least does not deny it.
In my opinion, the Bible is flawed. I know this may seem like flamebait, but the book was written to be perfect for 2000 years ago, which it may well be, but in these days, a 2000 year old text does not hold nearly enough ground as it once would in the past.
I would find it impossible to believe that Christians, these days, would not look upon incestious relations as sinful as they regard homosexual relations, a good deal of that through the fact that in this day and age, it's considered both immoral and illegal, but the Bible teaches otherwise. Or at least does not deny it.
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--c1--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>CODE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='CODE'><!--ec1-->1 corinthians 5:1
It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that does not occur even among pagans: a man has his father's wife. And you are proud! Shouldn't you rather have been filled with grief and have put out of your fellowship the man who did this?<!--c2--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--ec2-->
I would find it impossible to believe that Christians, these days, would not look upon incestious relations as sinful as they regard homosexual relations, a good deal of that through the fact that in this day and age, it's considered both immoral and illegal, but the Bible teaches otherwise. Or at least does not deny it.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--c1--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>CODE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='CODE'><!--ec1-->1 corinthians 5:1
It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that does not occur even among pagans: a man has his father's wife. And you are proud! Shouldn't you rather have been filled with grief and have put out of your fellowship the man who did this?<!--c2--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--ec2--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
While i entirely respect that, i'm positive that there's text to the contrary in the bible, i would find it but there's not a bible in the house. I will search for this at a later date, but consider my beaten. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Really, though, you do have your strong points.
I myself am not Christian or any religion because of all the contradictions. I HAVE, however, read and understood the bible, so dont' call me stupid. I'm not ****, either, just to clarify things.
Incest should not be illegal. I believe it's pretty sickening, but if someone likes their cousin, then, well, that's them.
*** should NOT be allowed to be Christian.
We should go EXACTLY as the bible says, that's why it's there. If we disobey it, we go to hell.
I truly have no problem with ***. I must say, though, that they SHOULD NOT express themselves so openly. They live alternatively, so they should blend in with the rest of us (just like I believe muslims in the US should free themselves of the headgear). I don't want to have to explain to my 5 year old child I may have one day why "that guy" is wearing women's clothes or is dressed in rainbow suspenders. I believe homosexuality can harm younger children. Children should not be introduced to "where babies come from" at a young age. The stork does fine. Homosexuality will be kind of hard to explain to a child who's young.
Simply put, the damn church did the right thing
On the basis of religion i agree, they did, but then again they shouldn't have given them permission in the first place (as Nem0 said earlier, i think). Agreeing to it in the first place and then turning around and saying it's sinful delves into the depths of hypocrisy and being, well, a bad Christian.
I would find it impossible to believe that Christians, these days, would not look upon incestious relations as sinful as they regard homosexual relations, a good deal of that through the fact that in this day and age, it's considered both immoral and illegal, but the Bible teaches otherwise. Or at least does not deny it.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--c1--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>CODE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='CODE'><!--ec1-->1 corinthians 5:1
It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that does not occur even among pagans: a man has his father's wife. And you are proud! Shouldn't you rather have been filled with grief and have put out of your fellowship the man who did this?<!--c2--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--ec2--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
While i entirely respect that, i'm positive that there's text to the contrary in the bible, i would find it but there's not a bible in the house. I will search for this at a later date, but consider my beaten. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think you might be thinking along the lines of Abraham, father of all God's first chosen people, had his son borne to him by his half-sister Sarah.
I don't know... maybe the population was too small at that time, and they couldn't be picky... <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
I would find it impossible to believe that Christians, these days, would not look upon incestious relations as sinful as they regard homosexual relations, a good deal of that through the fact that in this day and age, it's considered both immoral and illegal, but the Bible teaches otherwise. Or at least does not deny it.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--c1--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>CODE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='CODE'><!--ec1-->1 corinthians 5:1
It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that does not occur even among pagans: a man has his father's wife. And you are proud! Shouldn't you rather have been filled with grief and have put out of your fellowship the man who did this?<!--c2--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--ec2--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
While i entirely respect that, i'm positive that there's text to the contrary in the bible, i would find it but there's not a bible in the house. I will search for this at a later date, but consider my beaten. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think you might be thinking along the lines of Abraham, father of all God's first chosen people, had his son borne to him by his half-sister Sarah.
I don't know... maybe the population was too small at that time, and they couldn't be picky... <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's it! I remember, roughly, that it was the choice that someone must sleep with thier father.
While the population of the human race to Christians this seems like a perfectly logical and a bit of a "no-brainer", to my beliefs, mainly of evolution, i can see that this does nothing but encourage incest.
I believe, however, that when they first built these churches, they didn't anticipate *** trying to be christian.
Or, at least, they didn't anticipate a stampede of *** fighting for equal rights. Pfft.
While the population of the human race to Christians this seems like a perfectly logical and a bit of a "no-brainer", to my beliefs, mainly of evolution, i can see that this does nothing but encourage incest. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I just recalled something else that you might have been referring to - Lot's two daughters decided to get him drunk and get pregnant by him after they escaped Sodom' and Gomorrah's destruction. And as far as I remember, God didn't say anything like "stop doing that".
I must add however that the Bible only stated what happened, it did not condone it.
[edit]*dang, beaten*[/edit]
I believe, however, that when they first built these churches, they didn't anticipate *** trying to be christian.
Or, at least, they didn't anticipate a stampede of *** fighting for equal rights. Pfft. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's my point, kinda, there's no anticipation of how the morals and teachings of the Bible will stand 2000 years down the line (where we stand now). The whole anti-g*y issues with the Bible may have been perfectly acceptable in those times, just in today's world of political correctness and abstract morality, are those teachings entirely relevant?
Just as a thought, i, in no way, want to turn this discussion into Christianities influence on current day morals and laws, i'm well aware that the laws against murder, for example, are based on not only Christianity's teachings about "Thou Shalt Not Kill", but a multitude of other religion's similar teachings.
I must add however that the Bible only stated what happened, it did not condone it.
[edit]*dang, beaten*[/edit] <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Urgh, excuse my above comment on you being right, what you say now, about Lot, rings a bell definately and is what i'm thinking of.
Sorry for my incorrectness, it was a pretty vague, but definate, memory, to say the least. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Actually, while the technology may not be the same today, the sin is the same as it was 6000 years ago when God flooded the earth and saved only Noah and his family. The fact that the New Testament is 2000 years old and it's teachings still apply today is one of the great wonders and beauties of the Bible. How can a timeless God, a God who created time, be bound by time? How can a Bible that was written 2000 years ago but is the inspired work of God be less relevant today than it was then? Are you saying that God created a flawed work?
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->*** should NOT be allowed to be Christian.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
WRONG! Simply and utterly not true. Anyone has the potential and the possibility to be a Christian. If I'm a crack addict and I become a Christian, it will probably take me a while to get off of crack, because it *is* an addiction. Just the same way, people may become Christians and still live the lifestyle. The problem is when they don't see anything wrong, and they try to make everyone else think that it's not wrong Biblically. They are trying to get an action condoned that specifically goes against procreation and the Bible.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I don't know... maybe the population was too small at that time, and they couldn't be picky... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't know either, there are many views on what might have happened. I mean, the whole world was populated from Adam and Eve, and then again from Noah's sons. Don't know how that was engineered, it's a point I've often wondered about.
edit: missed a few words. dang yall are fast
I WIN!1
I WIN!1 <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Because it was just as rife then, as it was now. Just socially it's more 'acceptable' now.