I don't mind combat mode. As many have pointed out, it will help seperate the CSrs from the better teamplayers. Though I hope that as soon as this version is released, attention focuses on MvM and AvA modes of play.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Oh, really, when in DoD, everyone acts like some idiot outta CS? Ya, this is SUURE gonna help<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is clearly a flawed comparison, given that:
the differences between weapons in DOD are very small in terms of effectiveness, wheras in NS you can be a small, weak, fast skulk with regen, sof, etc, or a hulking onos, you can have a jp/hmg or a ha/gl
gameplay in DOD is focused almost entirely around reaction time, with some consideration towards accuracy or recoil control dependent on weapon selection
DOD maps are typically linear with fixed objectives which encourages heavily defensive play
Besides, teamplay can be found in DOD, it's just that it's not necessary in the vast majority of games because individual skill easily overcomes strategic play.
You all seem quite upset about the fact it's gonna be 'simplified' combat. Why? I'm sure all of you have had a few games where you couldn't stand running around welding things or guarding an area and went for guts or glory, i know i have. It will come with an interesting balance. I have complete confidence in Flayra's ability to balance it. I would like to see gorges and welders remain in for tactical versatility. It may be conceptually difficult for chambers to be built without providing upgrades. But it would still be nice to have chambers for providing local upgrades. Maybe they could be 'mini'; new models representing decreased function.
And Think of the maps!!! It's nearly free liscence, lvl over lvl, dm-style; the complexity of layout that'll be introduced is gonna be flippin cool. Oooh, I'm so excited. corridor-room-res node-corridor and 'routes' will not be necessary. Squads will get to go up, down and round-n-round. ambushes galore!
It would be nice if NSCO could eventually incorporate 'objectives' as well, transporting a piece of hardwar across the map, holding a key area for a time limit awaiting reinforcements or the like. IMO the NS universe would have many missions where quick insertions were as important as full-scale cleanses.
gj flayra, you've got me on the edge of my seat again <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif'><!--endemo-->
--edit-- oh yeah, on the topic of potential segregation of the community: it's unlikely to do so, but the thought occurs to me that it may draw some of the players more akin to random violence rather than teamwork away from the rts maps and allow players who continue to play them a more like-minded (and co-operative) audience
I think it would add a great new flavor to ns. Which might be really exciting. It sucks always getting the best stuff 3 minutes before game ends. Imagine getting hmgs/ jetpacks every round utilizing it to destroy your enemy. And on the other hand you would be able to marine vs marine alien vs alien.... GOD THAT WOULD BE SO COOL. Onos devour fade HAHA..... oh man the endless posibilities
I like the idea of helping newer players out. Anything that brings in new faces and provides a way for them to learn NS in a less-competitive (and less-stressful) environment is an excellent idea in my book. I think something like a training map, like the Hazard Course in regular HL, would be the ideal mechanism for new players to get familiar with the ins and outs of the actual (classic) NS gameplay. They could listen to a TSA hologram that shows them what an armory is, how to build structures, how they get new weapons, what resource nozzles look like and what they do, etc. I know it's been out there for a while, so perhaps the technical difficulties are too steep for something like that.
To that end, if NS:Combat is going to be that sort of training ground for new players, I would suggest making as many training-like aspects as possible. Like have marine spawnpoints near Infantry Portals, which are static and unchanging on the level. Give marines an armory in the center of the infantry portals that they can use to extract additional ammo. Make it so their choice of weapon upgrade can only occur when they are within a certain range of the armory, and give them an icon (like you see in CS for bomb zones) on their screen so they understand what it means. When they choose an upgrade, make it so it's considered a "request" to the commander and there's a little delay. Have the female voice say "the commander has granted your request" and then they get the new weapon. This will teach them that in regular NS, they draw ammo from an armory, and they can get new weapons from a (human) commander only near the armory.
I would also suggest reconsidering placing resource nozzles on the map. You could have it so that when a player walks close to the resource nozzle, the resource tower is automatically placed at that location and built for them (like sv_cheats with 'bigdig'.) This will teach them what resource nozzles are, and how resource towers get built. Perhaps give them a reward of some sort to indicate the importance of resource towers. Since resources don't matter in NS:Combat, this is just for effect and nothing else. If marines capture all the free nodes and aliens have none, it doesn't change the gameplay at all. But the reward will be there, indicating their importance in actual NS gameplay.
Another suggestion would be to have an area set off to the side of marine spawn where the players can't reach. This area would be the commander console area. Right beside the console would be an arms lab, a prototype lab, and an observatory. None of them would have any functional use, and the players couldn't interract with them nor get to them. This creates an association in the player's mind indicating that these structures have some kind of use in the game itself, however they won't be expecting to make use of them when they're actually playing the game. This was one of the confusing things to me when I first played NS... I kept trying to walk up and +USE things like the arms lab. That was because there's an icon of a weapon on it, and I figured if the armory gives you ammo then this arms lab must give you arms. Ooh, I see a jetpack on the proto lab, it must give me a jetpack. For days I wondered why my USE key wasn't working <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Perhaps as a way to teach the use of phase gates you could set up at least one pair that takes players from one side of the map to the other. This will teach them both how to use the phase gate and also its importance in being able to travel to far-off locations in the map. Build a turret factory there with one or two turrets. This will teach players what outposts are like. Make the turrets fairly weak so that marines don't hide there, but have them do at least do some kind of damage so aliens don't just camp out at the phase gate end point.
Place a single turret factory in the marine base, with a half-dozen turrets which are more powerful and can reach all areas where marines spawn. This will teach any aliens that attempt to spawn camp what not to do. Just like what happens in TFC if you attempt to enter one of the opposing team's rooms. They can't destroy the turrets, so they'd better get out of there.
For aliens, the same kinds of things could happen. Place static upgrade chambers around the hive area. Automatically have a handful of DCs, MCs, and SCs placed near the hive. Place a pack of OCs in there too, for the same reasons marines have the turrets. Perhaps place a single alien outpost area that has a couple OCs, a DC for healing, and a MC for travel back to the hive.
I don't think any of those things would detract from the overall goal of fast-n-furious gameplay. The resource towers would be built only once on the first go-around, and from there on out everything is just about killing the other team and getting upgrades. I think it's important to have the structures in there, however, otherwise people won't be learning much about NS itself and would be just as lost switching over to the real thing as any new player is today. I'm assuming the underlying goal of the concept is to teach players how to play the game but give them a fun/fast experience along the way. When they come to regular NS, they'll understand what all of these structures are, except they'll realize that the commander is the one who places them. That'll instantly get them interested in wanting to be that commander, something that I think is sorely lacking in new players because of the "fear factor" that exists with trying to command a bunch of players that might yell at you if you fail.
GrendelAll that is fear...Join Date: 2002-07-19Member: 970Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, NS2 Playtester
And just yesterday, Flayra told me not to tell anyone about it. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Grendel+Sep 16 2003, 05:23 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Grendel @ Sep 16 2003, 05:23 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> And just yesterday, Flayra told me not to tell anyone about it. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> LOL.
Well, i thought i'd just add this:
If you've played StarCraft and seen the cut-scene "Battle on the Amerigo" it'll happen in NS:C.
Someone will make a Amerigo map... its bound to happen... <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Just think of NS:C as "Use map settings" on the Installation tileset in StarCraft.
I'm afraid I'm not too keen on this idea. There's enough DM type games out there to wet my appitite, I don't need a NS version. I don't play NS for the combat, believe it or not. I'm usually the gorge in the back playing support, and if I'm marine I play for the tension of wondering if there's a cloaked Ohnos around the corner. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> But the actual combat is not the reason I play. I'm into the team and strategy aspects of the game.
I'd be in favor of maps with different objectives too. Maybe like a map where the marine objective is to "contain" the aliens by welding all the access points from their hive clusters closed. Or an "escape" map where an alien only needs to get past a heavily defended marine base. Modes that keep and promote the strategy and team aspects of NS I'd be very in favor of.
By the way, CS is objective based, not DeathMatch (or you're playing it wrong:P)
Speaking of which...
What is the incentive to move out? What will make it NOT the best strategy to just camp a dark corner/long hallway? In CS, if you don't plant/defuse the bomb, you lose, if you don't hold/rescue the hostages, you lose. If this mod is only about frags, why would I as a Marine not just sit and look down a long hallway, or hide in some obscure corner as skulk? Other then boredom of course <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Stoneburg+Sep 16 2003, 08:45 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Stoneburg @ Sep 16 2003, 08:45 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> By the way, CS is objective based, not DeathMatch (or you're playing it wrong:P)
Speaking of which...
What is the incentive to move out? What will make it NOT the best strategy to just camp a dark corner/long hallway? In CS, if you don't plant/defuse the bomb, you lose, if you don't hold/rescue the hostages, you lose. If this mod is only about frags, why would I as a Marine not just sit and look down a long hallway, or hide in some obscure corner as skulk? Other then boredom of course <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Hopefully the map design will be so good that you can't camp without being a sitting duck.
Lots of vents, lots of backroutes... that sorta stuff.
Still you have a point...
Although I'd imagine a lerk would have fun with camping marines...
It won't be like CS, it will be a DM game like Quake (if I understand it correctly).
The only reason you'd compare it to CS is if you've not played any other games then NS and CS. It will be more like a HL DM server or The Specialist or whatever.
Actually it will be a DM version of NS. That's it. Now shush, please.
I for one am not going to ***** about getting new/extra game modes, sometimes I do feel like grabbing a shotty and wasting a billion people, instead of just waiting ten minutes and being one of the lucky ones to grab one from the pile the commander sets down. I mean, NO ONE'S GOING TO FORCE YOU TO PLAY the new game mode. If I hate it, I just won't play it, if I love it, rock on, another addiction found.
I'm not so sure I wholly agree with the idea that "this is great, it'll draw CS/DM players away from NS".
I have no doubt that some of the best, most strategic NS players probably started out as pure DM/CSers. Heck, I bet there's a bunch of them right here in the forums! The simple fact that a deathmatch-ish style wasn't available to them is the reason they stuck around, learned the strategy element, and became brilliant tacticians!
Sure, everyone hates the n00b that runs around dying all game, then uses his 100 resources on Onos to immediately run into a marine base and die. But a portion of those n00bs eventually become expert players. Without a steady supply of newbies, a game doesn't generate a steady supply of experts. Cutting off the CS/DM newbie population won't really make NS that much better.
<!--QuoteBegin--SHAMPOO+Sep 17 2003, 03:09 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SHAMPOO @ Sep 17 2003, 03:09 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Sounds like fun, ns needs more gameplay modes and if this starts that off I see no problem with it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> agreed, if you dont like the new mode just play it normally =D
Sounds awesome Flayra. It sounds like you're combining the best elements of CS with NS, which will make one killer of a game. And to the CS Haters: You may hate CS all you like, but you can't deny that it is the most played fps online. I think mixing CS with NS would be great. Good luck Flayra, it sounds great to me.
Long answer- I don't like the idea because it takes everything that is good and holy about Natural selection and throws it out the window. NS:C sounds strikingly similar to CS. As much fun as CS is, we don't need another "clone" of it. Keep NS pure, change it any way you want, but keep the basics intact. We came over to this game because we enjoyed the stratagy and the uniqe gameplay. Please don't remove those from this game
<!--QuoteBegin--ThE HeRo+Sep 16 2003, 08:26 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (ThE HeRo @ Sep 16 2003, 08:26 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Sounds awesome Flayra. It sounds like you're combining the best elements of CS with NS, which will make one killer of a game. And to the CS Haters: You may hate CS all you like, but you can't deny that it is the most played fps online. I think mixing CS with NS would be great. Good luck Flayra, it sounds great to me. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> It's not that I don't like CS, or that I don't admit that CS is the biggest game out there, it's just that the industry needs alternatives to fps, and if natural selection becomes more similar to games like CS, then we've lost some of the diversity in the community.
How ironic that a game that is about evolution may succumb to the industry trend against true evolution in video games (i hope i didnt make that statement too obscure)
when lyndak told me about it on msn... i though he was joking.
This is NOT what ns is about. NS is about evolution, having to get your hives up, build upgrades, etc. essentialy what you are suggesting is a money system, then buying upgrades/guns with money from kills. What is CS? a money system then buying upgrades/guns with money from kills.
Alot of people i know play ns solely because it is a more chalanging mentaly, and in game play. NS also is not repeditive, such as CS, DOD, and many other mods.
Now if we can just get some MvM and AvA going... <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> The MvM and AvA sounds like a kick ars idea. On the NS:C, might be fun. If it sucks people wont play it, if it ownz we will all play it. Either way, we are still haveing fun and playing ns. But I would love to see the day we get some MvM and AvA action...Maybe even get three or four teams going at each other all at once.....
Here's the current integration process of newbies :
-new NS players are generally lazy. -the dumbest of them (known as "NSPlayer"s) leave as they don't understand **** , others stay for a while and understand the basic objectives of the game. -the lazier ones ("noobs") eventually leave , the last newbies remaining slowly learn the game. -newbies turn into elitist veterans. -new NS enthusiast players won't grow bored of the mod before NS for HL2 is out.
Here's how NS:C would change it :
-new NS players download the game and explore both playing modes. -the dumb or lazy newbies stick to Combat NS , and don't bother playing classic NS. -Average new NS players prefer Combat NS as it feels more familiar. -The NS community is split up and the classic NS fan base slowly dies. Sure , we will only have the better elements coming in , but they won't be enough to keep the game alive long enough. HL2 will halt the growth of the NS mod for HL1 , much like UT2003 made great mods like ThieveryUT underplayed. -NS:C players quickly grow bored of this mod and go back to CS / play an other game on Steam. Bye bye NS.
Adding a "fast paced team deathmatch" game mode to NS isn't an innocent choice. It can have dire consequences imho. Flayra , if you have enough faith in your own mod , you know the wandering CS players out there don't need a new game mode , they only need enlightenment... the lost gamers must be brought to love NS ! (this is coming from an atheist <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->)
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->...it takes everything that is good and holy about Natural selection and throws it out the window. Keep NS pure, change it any way you want, but keep the basics intact.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Gorge = sacred in NS. Comm = sacred in NS. Therefore NS:C = blasphemy !
Comments
Though I hope that as soon as this version is released, attention focuses on MvM and AvA modes of play.
This is clearly a flawed comparison, given that:
the differences between weapons in DOD are very small in terms of effectiveness, wheras in NS you can be a small, weak, fast skulk with regen, sof, etc, or a hulking onos, you can have a jp/hmg or a ha/gl
gameplay in DOD is focused almost entirely around reaction time, with some consideration towards accuracy or recoil control dependent on weapon selection
DOD maps are typically linear with fixed objectives which encourages heavily defensive play
Besides, teamplay can be found in DOD, it's just that it's not necessary in the vast majority of games because individual skill easily overcomes strategic play.
It will come with an interesting balance. I have complete confidence in Flayra's ability to balance it. I would like to see gorges and welders remain in for tactical versatility. It may be conceptually difficult for chambers to be built without providing upgrades. But it would still be nice to have chambers for providing local upgrades. Maybe they could be 'mini'; new models representing decreased function.
And Think of the maps!!!
It's nearly free liscence, lvl over lvl, dm-style; the complexity of layout that'll be introduced is gonna be flippin cool. Oooh, I'm so excited. corridor-room-res node-corridor and 'routes' will not be necessary. Squads will get to go up, down and round-n-round. ambushes galore!
It would be nice if NSCO could eventually incorporate 'objectives' as well, transporting a piece of hardwar across the map, holding a key area for a time limit awaiting reinforcements or the like. IMO the NS universe would have many missions where quick insertions were as important as full-scale cleanses.
gj flayra, you've got me on the edge of my seat again
<!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif'><!--endemo-->
--edit-- oh yeah, on the topic of potential segregation of the community: it's unlikely to do so, but the thought occurs to me that it may draw some of the players more akin to random violence rather than teamwork away from the rts maps and allow players who continue to play them a more like-minded (and co-operative) audience
To that end, if NS:Combat is going to be that sort of training ground for new players, I would suggest making as many training-like aspects as possible. Like have marine spawnpoints near Infantry Portals, which are static and unchanging on the level. Give marines an armory in the center of the infantry portals that they can use to extract additional ammo. Make it so their choice of weapon upgrade can only occur when they are within a certain range of the armory, and give them an icon (like you see in CS for bomb zones) on their screen so they understand what it means. When they choose an upgrade, make it so it's considered a "request" to the commander and there's a little delay. Have the female voice say "the commander has granted your request" and then they get the new weapon. This will teach them that in regular NS, they draw ammo from an armory, and they can get new weapons from a (human) commander only near the armory.
I would also suggest reconsidering placing resource nozzles on the map. You could have it so that when a player walks close to the resource nozzle, the resource tower is automatically placed at that location and built for them (like sv_cheats with 'bigdig'.) This will teach them what resource nozzles are, and how resource towers get built. Perhaps give them a reward of some sort to indicate the importance of resource towers. Since resources don't matter in NS:Combat, this is just for effect and nothing else. If marines capture all the free nodes and aliens have none, it doesn't change the gameplay at all. But the reward will be there, indicating their importance in actual NS gameplay.
Another suggestion would be to have an area set off to the side of marine spawn where the players can't reach. This area would be the commander console area. Right beside the console would be an arms lab, a prototype lab, and an observatory. None of them would have any functional use, and the players couldn't interract with them nor get to them. This creates an association in the player's mind indicating that these structures have some kind of use in the game itself, however they won't be expecting to make use of them when they're actually playing the game. This was one of the confusing things to me when I first played NS... I kept trying to walk up and +USE things like the arms lab. That was because there's an icon of a weapon on it, and I figured if the armory gives you ammo then this arms lab must give you arms. Ooh, I see a jetpack on the proto lab, it must give me a jetpack. For days I wondered why my USE key wasn't working <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Perhaps as a way to teach the use of phase gates you could set up at least one pair that takes players from one side of the map to the other. This will teach them both how to use the phase gate and also its importance in being able to travel to far-off locations in the map. Build a turret factory there with one or two turrets. This will teach players what outposts are like. Make the turrets fairly weak so that marines don't hide there, but have them do at least do some kind of damage so aliens don't just camp out at the phase gate end point.
Place a single turret factory in the marine base, with a half-dozen turrets which are more powerful and can reach all areas where marines spawn. This will teach any aliens that attempt to spawn camp what not to do. Just like what happens in TFC if you attempt to enter one of the opposing team's rooms. They can't destroy the turrets, so they'd better get out of there.
For aliens, the same kinds of things could happen. Place static upgrade chambers around the hive area. Automatically have a handful of DCs, MCs, and SCs placed near the hive. Place a pack of OCs in there too, for the same reasons marines have the turrets. Perhaps place a single alien outpost area that has a couple OCs, a DC for healing, and a MC for travel back to the hive.
I don't think any of those things would detract from the overall goal of fast-n-furious gameplay. The resource towers would be built only once on the first go-around, and from there on out everything is just about killing the other team and getting upgrades. I think it's important to have the structures in there, however, otherwise people won't be learning much about NS itself and would be just as lost switching over to the real thing as any new player is today. I'm assuming the underlying goal of the concept is to teach players how to play the game but give them a fun/fast experience along the way. When they come to regular NS, they'll understand what all of these structures are, except they'll realize that the commander is the one who places them. That'll instantly get them interested in wanting to be that commander, something that I think is sorely lacking in new players because of the "fear factor" that exists with trying to command a bunch of players that might yell at you if you fail.
LOL.
Well, i thought i'd just add this:
If you've played StarCraft and seen the cut-scene "Battle on the Amerigo" it'll happen in NS:C.
Someone will make a Amerigo map... its bound to happen... <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Just think of NS:C as "Use map settings" on the Installation tileset in StarCraft.
I'd be in favor of maps with different objectives too. Maybe like a map where the marine objective is to "contain" the aliens by welding all the access points from their hive clusters closed. Or an "escape" map where an alien only needs to get past a heavily defended marine base. Modes that keep and promote the strategy and team aspects of NS I'd be very in favor of.
I agree with RabidWeasel. Nice one Eviscerator.
Speaking of which...
What is the incentive to move out? What will make it NOT the best strategy to just camp a dark corner/long hallway? In CS, if you don't plant/defuse the bomb, you lose, if you don't hold/rescue the hostages, you lose. If this mod is only about frags, why would I as a Marine not just sit and look down a long hallway, or hide in some obscure corner as skulk? Other then boredom of course <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
Speaking of which...
What is the incentive to move out? What will make it NOT the best strategy to just camp a dark corner/long hallway? In CS, if you don't plant/defuse the bomb, you lose, if you don't hold/rescue the hostages, you lose. If this mod is only about frags, why would I as a Marine not just sit and look down a long hallway, or hide in some obscure corner as skulk? Other then boredom of course <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hopefully the map design will be so good that you can't camp without being a sitting duck.
Lots of vents, lots of backroutes... that sorta stuff.
Still you have a point...
Although I'd imagine a lerk would have fun with camping marines...
i will not be playing NS:C as it sounds exactly like the cs i left 2 years ago.
Well. I think it'd be far too much like CS, the way NS is at the moment seperates it from all other games, it's unique.
If you develop this side of play, it'll no longer be unique, it'll just be another mod in the pile that'll get extremely repeatative.
Just my couple of pennies, but I really think this is a bad idea, Flay.
Will these toys be NEW toys? Or toys from the original NS?
The only reason you'd compare it to CS is if you've not played any other games then NS and CS. It will be more like a HL DM server or The Specialist or whatever.
Actually it will be a DM version of NS. That's it. Now shush, please.
This will be like....AHL..sorta..I guess...uhm.
I have no doubt that some of the best, most strategic NS players probably started out as pure DM/CSers. Heck, I bet there's a bunch of them right here in the forums! The simple fact that a deathmatch-ish style wasn't available to them is the reason they stuck around, learned the strategy element, and became brilliant tacticians!
Sure, everyone hates the n00b that runs around dying all game, then uses his 100 resources on Onos to immediately run into a marine base and die. But a portion of those n00bs eventually become expert players. Without a steady supply of newbies, a game doesn't generate a steady supply of experts. Cutting off the CS/DM newbie population won't really make NS that much better.
Mods I've played:
NS
CS
DoD
BG
TS
DMC
HLDM
TFC
SvenCo-Op
Public Enemy
Wizard Wars
Op4
Digital Paintball
AHL
Ricochet
Firearms
Global Warfare
and Front line force.
Mods I play on a regular basis:
NS
DoD
TFC
FA
Ricochet (When I can find a server)
DPB
and very occasionally TS/AHL.
These are just the half-life based mods, I also play alot of Q3 based games and BF1942 mods.
Your arguement has no basis.
agreed, if you dont like the new mode just play it normally =D
Long answer- I don't like the idea because it takes everything that is good and holy about Natural selection and throws it out the window. NS:C sounds strikingly similar to CS. As much fun as CS is, we don't need another "clone" of it. Keep NS pure, change it any way you want, but keep the basics intact. We came over to this game because we enjoyed the stratagy and the uniqe gameplay. Please don't remove those from this game
It's not that I don't like CS, or that I don't admit that CS is the biggest game out there, it's just that the industry needs alternatives to fps, and if natural selection becomes more similar to games like CS, then we've lost some of the diversity in the community.
How ironic that a game that is about evolution may succumb to the industry trend against true evolution in video games (i hope i didnt make that statement too obscure)
Change NS drastically to another cheap cut and paste from CS and name it NS 2.1? Hell no!
This is NOT what ns is about. NS is about evolution, having to get your hives up, build upgrades, etc. essentialy what you are suggesting is a money system, then buying upgrades/guns with money from kills. What is CS? a money system then buying upgrades/guns with money from kills.
Alot of people i know play ns solely because it is a more chalanging mentaly, and in game play. NS also is not repeditive, such as CS, DOD, and many other mods.
Don'k kill ns with this.
Now if we can just get some MvM and AvA going... <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
The MvM and AvA sounds like a kick ars idea. On the NS:C, might be fun. If it sucks people wont play it, if it ownz we will all play it. Either way, we are still haveing fun and playing ns. But I would love to see the day we get some MvM and AvA action...Maybe even get three or four teams going at each other all at once.....
-new NS players are generally lazy.
-the dumbest of them (known as "NSPlayer"s) leave as they don't understand **** , others stay for a while and understand the basic objectives of the game.
-the lazier ones ("noobs") eventually leave , the last newbies remaining slowly learn the game.
-newbies turn into elitist veterans.
-new NS enthusiast players won't grow bored of the mod before NS for HL2 is out.
Here's how NS:C would change it :
-new NS players download the game and explore both playing modes.
-the dumb or lazy newbies stick to Combat NS , and don't bother playing classic NS.
-Average new NS players prefer Combat NS as it feels more familiar.
-The NS community is split up and the classic NS fan base slowly dies. Sure , we will only have the better elements coming in , but they won't be enough to keep the game alive long enough. HL2 will halt the growth of the NS mod for HL1 , much like UT2003 made great mods like ThieveryUT underplayed.
-NS:C players quickly grow bored of this mod and go back to CS / play an other game on Steam. Bye bye NS.
Adding a "fast paced team deathmatch" game mode to NS isn't an innocent choice. It can have dire consequences imho. Flayra , if you have enough faith in your own mod , you know the wandering CS players out there don't need a new game mode , they only need enlightenment... the lost gamers must be brought to love NS ! (this is coming from an atheist <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->)
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->...it takes everything that is good and holy about Natural selection and throws it out the window. Keep NS pure, change it any way you want, but keep the basics intact.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Gorge = sacred in NS. Comm = sacred in NS. Therefore NS:C = blasphemy !