Funny....we Went From All Alien To All Marine Wins

Harry_S_Truman · September 2003

<div class="IPBDescription">What happened?</div> I don't know about the rest of you guys, but the two servers I play on regularly have had a complete 180-degree shift. We went from about 90% Alien wins to about 90% Marine wins all with the change in 2.01. Now these groups of people are very regular players and we all have been playing against each other for quite awhile. The amount of teamwork on this pub is really high. So, why the big switch in wins?

My observation is this...the real wildcard factor in any game of NS is the skill of the commander. When so many decisions and so much power is in the hands of a single player, it seems to be completely impossible to balance the game. Balance it for mediocre commanders and any with any amount of skill will crush the Aliens. Balance it for skilled commanders and the aliens will crush the mediocre commander. I don't think this can ever be fixed......

Majin · September 2003

NS is a melting pot.
Its so large and full its impossible to be perfect, but a nice balance is surely needed.

I still love it though!

cybrangl · September 2003

You obviosuly never played on our server <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'> Aliens still win, but I think that is because most of the regulars got used to aliens and can really kick ***

Gliss · September 2003

Not sure about this, I believe aliens still have the upper hand.

Mintman · September 2003

Personally I'm finding it pretty even at the moment. *shrug*

eggmac · September 2003

aliens need to learn how to *earn* their wins. Just like marines did.

Brad_R · September 2003

Still in aliens favor slightly. But easy to win as either side really.

Hawkeye · September 2003

Aliens are great individual players. 1 skulk can kill a lot of marines before dying if he's experienced enough. Marines' strengths are organization and teamwork. Aliens' strengths are their individual abilities. Can you imagine what happens when aliens become organized? Aliens COULD win every game if they had a "leader" much like humans have a comm.

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>My observation is this...the real wildcard factor in any game of NS is the skill of the commander. When so many decisions and so much power is in the hands of a single player, it seems to be completely impossible to balance the game. Balance it for mediocre commanders and any with any amount of skill will crush the Aliens. Balance it for skilled commanders and the aliens will crush the mediocre commander. I don't think this can ever be fixed......</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

I believe allowing for multiple comms would in fact fix this. In the early game, it would still be just as much dependant upon the comm to perform, however I believe if marines take a hive and make comm chair in that hive, a 2nd commander could reduce the chances of either comm making a drastic mistake. There might be resource issues, but that is between the comms to determine. In addition, dropping a 2nd comm chair is entirely optional, and if you think this gives marines too much of an edge, remember it is one less marine fighter in the game.

Zunni · September 2003

I play more with the same guys over and over again now as opposed to random pubbing it. And I find that the games are pretty even,

Results of the last 3 days for games I played in

3 days ago:

Marines 2 wins
Aliens 4

2 days ago
Marines 3 wins
Aliens 2 wins

Yesterday
Marines 4 wins
Aliens 5 wins

So as you can see it's just about even...

I love the balance in this patch, it probably could be tweaked a little but it's really good now...

madfatman · September 2003

I agree that the balance is a lot better now, seems to be fairly even in the win ratio. Aliens only used to loose before if they made a massive mistake at begining such as not capping plenty of res nodes.
Now they just need to keep up team work to hold off marines and as y asaid earn their wins.

fo_sheezy_my_neezy · September 2003

in the servers I frequent, I'm still seeing alien wins, though it's harder to come by. I think the major difference is just the experience, teamwork, and skill that comes in some of the higher-skilled servers like HAMPTONS and OSS. But then again, I experienced a high number of marine wins even in plain 2.0 and all the 2.01 betas on those same servers. I think that without 2 entirely different games for pub and clan play, there won't be true balance.

Rokiyo · September 2003

As many have said to me already, pubber aliens are just far too used to not working as a team and getting away with it.

Marines on the other hand have had to work EXTREMELY well together to EVER win, so what you now have is a marine team conditioned to play well, and an alien team conditioned to play sloppily. This issue will sort itself out in a few weeks, just try not to go insane in the meantime lol...

kingmob · September 2003

i have seen an increase in marine wins

in fact i was on one server that the aliens never won

but i think it was more because marine commanders
have learned basic strats to combat the changed environment

a) if a comm hears his 'men' complaining about uncloaking....build more obs towers
b) lone turret = electrify...it will at least survive the wandering skulk attack...which is the most likely
c) mixed weaponry is the most devastating some shotties, some HMGs and a gren launcher
d) early onos a big problem ...use sentries as blockade

but commanding is still hard...and frightening
i still see games where 8+ people on the marine team
...and we are all bitching...you command ...no you do it ...i suck :-)

maybe multiple comm chairs is the answer

i know i loved playing starcraft this way, becaause i was bad (horrible) at expanding
but if i played a shared resource game...i could stay at home and build up base...while the other commander
went exploring

boy i really wandered in my response :-)

MadcapMagician · September 2003

I think you are all neglecting a very important point, the size of the server. 10+ marines will be MUCH more likely to win than 6 marines. The extra people makes a huge difference. With 12 people I don't even think marines could lose unless they wanted to. And 4 marines really don't stand any chance against skilled aliens.

Geminosity · September 2003

yeah... there's strength in numbers when it comes to marines; especially as a lot of aliens lone wolf it as fades particularly.
of course there's strength in numbers for the aliens too but I find the marines seem to benefit from more players as they tend to get out of the base quicker and into knifing your res nodes/ locking hives down =s

Maybe it's just a psychological thing or is it because marines tend to stick together more? Is it because it gives the commander more flexibility in their tactics or is there something else I missed?

HAMBone · September 2003

If you went from 2.0 to 2.01 then I could see that happening. The aliens need to learn how to play at the level the marines have learned to play at and everything will even out.

Cxwf · September 2003

Of course, the more people there are, the more complex it gets to be a com, even if you do have a little more power overall. For example, when I com in 1v1 or 2v2 games, I have about a 90% win ratio. I can do a pretty decent com job in 4v4, but any higher than that and it just starts to overload me.

Geminosity · September 2003

There's also the slower income rate for the aliens as you get more players... almost forgot about that ^^

BeRzErKeR · September 2003

I find NS pretty well balanced right now. As balanced as it ever has been. The aliens just have to learn to actually do some work for their wins.

Infected_Marine · September 2003

Now this is my personal opinion, but I think many would agree. I saw this shifting of power back in Beta 2.01b, and then it became pretty much true of any form of 2.0. When a good comm will comm on the servers I frequent marines win. I blame the alien players, they still use the same tactics, make the same mistakes and act like complete cowards constantly. And what I mean is any one that is a dedicated alien player tries to skate by, being a greedy coward, and now that dedicated marines have got their stuff together and constantly put the team ahead of themselves, they sacrifice themselves, and their level of skill now exceed that of the average alien. People play aliens because they want an easy win, people play marines becuase they want a challenge. There is no question on why marines are better, it is the players.

Geminosity · September 2003

while I agree that the game is balancing out I wouldn't run around slandering dedicated alien players either; I'm one of them and the one who usually puts up the hives and chambers and runs head first in suicidally if I think it will save a hive under attack.
Just because some alien-only players are res hoarders it's not a good idea to generalise us all under the same label <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'>

I'm just tired of using stupid guns in games and I like wall crawling <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

Necrosis · September 2003

So far it all seems balanced.

I play aliens almost exclusively, and we lose if there's no team play or the marines catch us flat footed.

Marines...... are as they've always been. Good comm and a good team = win.

So tbh I find it a better game than vanilla 2.0

Yes, its annoying to have your team sideswiped because a few players aren't cooperating, but at the same time I would EXPECT to lose if we weren't teamplaying.

Nemesis_Zero · September 2003

There are so many balance topics that I stopped counting long ago. Use one of the more venerable ones, please.

<span style='color:red'>***Locked.***</span>

Funny....we Went From All Alien To All Marine Wins

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