I reckon my hairdryer can do more "real" damage to kharaa than this piece of "fictional" toys'r'us reject. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Hehehe, yeah, all his guns look like toys <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> Mainly because of their colors.
Its not theoretical, and AFAIK they have made cold plasma and have the capacity to manufacture it in large quantities.
CURRENTLY.... its not dense enough to really do any impact damage.... however currently is a world away from a futuristic sci-fi game.
As for the engine, as a propulsion tool it would need the "vacuum" of space (I say "vacuum" because on a quantum level its not really a vacuum, and on a more conventional level it still contains large bodies of hydrogen, etc) but as a weapon you wouldn't need the vacuum. And even thats becoming a moot point when they've already created vacuum free welders.
BTW, not commenting on every line, and instead choosing only to attempt to shoot down the bits you can answer, is just poor etiquette. I mean really, you shoot down this person's idea (I don't care how much people like or dislike him) with a bunch of technobabble that you won't even back up. Thats just plain rudeness.
Cold plasma is considered to be of growing importance, and certainly in the defense industry.
<!--QuoteBegin--Necrosis+Sep 24 2003, 01:21 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Necrosis @ Sep 24 2003, 01:21 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Its not theoretical, and AFAIK they have made cold plasma and have the capacity to manufacture it in large quantities.
CURRENTLY.... its not dense enough to really do any impact damage.... however currently is a world away from a futuristic sci-fi game.
As for the engine, as a propulsion tool it would need the "vacuum" of space (I say "vacuum" because on a quantum level its not really a vacuum, and on a more conventional level it still contains large bodies of hydrogen, etc) but as a weapon you wouldn't need the vacuum. And even thats becoming a moot point when they've already created vacuum free welders.
BTW, not commenting on every line, and instead choosing only to attempt to shoot down the bits you can answer, is just poor etiquette. I mean really, you shoot down this person's idea (I don't care how much people like or dislike him) with a bunch of technobabble that you won't even back up. Thats just plain rudeness.
Cold plasma is considered to be of growing importance, and certainly in the defense industry. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> you havent really read my posts.. i think thats rude <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
with theoretical i mean using cold plasma to transfer energy over a great distance under athmosperic conditions is very theoretical. i know that there are plasma cutters...(im not talking about this little portable 110 volt devices) do you know how much power, and shielding gas you need to center the plasma, only to get a very short plasma arc to cut metal? and the target needs the opposite charge of the torch electrode,to generate a electric discharge,that heats the high pressurized cutting gas and turns it into plasma..first the discharge just reaches the nozzle of the cutter,this discharge heats the gas,when it turns into plasma the electrical conductivity of the plasma causes the arc to transfer to the workpiece,where it heats the remaining cutting gas .. good as tool...but bad as weapon.. (i know you meant the cutter just as a example... but its the next existing thing next to a weapon)
when you would to build a weapon based on a plasma cutter u need a very high voltage to generate a electric discharge to the target (you have no plasma yet to transfer that discharge)..and thats where the theory starts..
IF you are able to generate a discharge that is strong enough to hit a electroconductive target that stands in front of you,that alone would give a weapon,you wont need to generate plasma anymore...
ok.. theory... lets say..the target is a tank... you fire a discharge at that tank,you still need shielding gas to multiplex the generated plasma stream on a specified point... theres the next leak in this theory...what do you have to do to hold that shielding gas.or..magnetic tube in place? anyway.. lets say you an accomplish this task... your weapon is not molten yet,you got the discharge to heat the gas to generate the plasma..whoooops.. do you know how much power such a discharge over this distance need to heat it that high? blah... plasma cutter is a bad example.. whats left? this would work with cold plasma too... you wont need the plasma itself to destroy a target,you use the plasma to transport a discharge through it ..hmm.. you still need a shielding to multiplex,and prevent the atmosphere around the plasma stream to make the gas "dirty" i believe you cannot make cold plasma with oxygen like a plasmacutter it does.. cold plasma in our athmosphere would mix up with other gases, it would loos energy, and its 4rth energy state... so what do you think you have to do to shield your cold plasma against the athmosphere? it would work over a small distance...some centimeters ,but not over a half meter... sure.. a uncontrolled plasmastream would possible..but ineffective and a waste of power.. "regular" produced oxygen,nitrogen,or argon plasma would heat the surrounding atmosphere and turn it into plasma too,this detracts power from the plasma and turn it into regular gas again... making plasma under earth conditions is like making fire under water... sure..there are underwater phosphor torches (that would be a plasma cutter <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> )
in your last post you answered lotsof stuff ive already mentioned before <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> and i wanst talking about "ABSULUTE" vacuum... i dont know if anyone has done something like that on earth yet.
maybe its just my bad spelling...my english isnt the best, but i hope you understand my point,i cant explain it with better words
Why, oh why would you sully the good name of BioHaz's guns (dubbed the CxPW series where x=level of weapon) with this godawful "drawing" of a colored glock?! Why?! If you were going to do this (and you shouldnt...ever ever ever) you could've picked a gun WORTH scribbling on. Maybe something by HK perhaps. But Glock? You sicken me.
"you havent really read my posts.. i think thats rude "
Correction, I have read your posts, and I find fobbing off a lack of reply on "thats silly" to be in poor taste.
"using cold plasma to transfer energy over a great distance under athmosperic conditions is very theoretical."
Transfer energy? Oh, no no no, you use cold plasma as a hypothetical shield and decontaminant. The real glitch is getting the plasma dense enough - but they're working on it. Its nothing to do with energy (other than, what, the kinetic energy of a small dense electrically charged projectile. But that doesnt seem to be the energy you're talking about).
"do you know how much power, and shielding gas you need to center the plasma, only to get a very short plasma arc to cut metal?"
Of course now we're changing subject to HOT plasma, which is certainly not cold plasma. Second, the power, shielding, etc, is irrelevant since you could utilise a pulse which cuts down on shielding AND power. Second, if you consider COLD plasma, which is what I've been talking about, shielding isnt as much of an issue, since cold plasma can be generated between two plates. Use that and mix it with a laser and you get a rather effective little weapon (if somewhat distant from our current grasp).
"target needs the opposite charge of the torch electrode,to generate a electric discharge..."
No, because you simply move the plasma from the front of the cutter to the middle, build up a sufficient electrostatic charge, and boost it right out in the same manner as the wireless tazer.
"a very high voltage to generate a electric discharge to the target (you have no plasma yet to transfer that discharge)..and thats where the theory starts.."
Nah you just ionise the air. It'd be fiddly but they've pulled it off with tazers so its theoretically just as easy with plasma (shielding issues aside).
"you wont need to generate plasma anymore..."
And a tazer would give you a nasty shock, true. However lets run with the NS backstory that the Aliens are bacteria - electricity may not affect them at all. Hence, the cold/hot plasma most certainly WILL make an impact.
"shielding gas to multiplex the generated plasma stream on a specified point..."
Nnnnnnnnnnnnnooooooopppppppppppppppppe, you put it through a laser stream. Which bypasses the need for some form of electromagnetic torus bullet. Funnelled through the laser, you're going to have little bleed.
"what do you have to do to hold that shielding gas"
Well for the formation of the plasma, as I recall they use the same gas thats used to form the plasma. And thats all packed in the middle of our little cold plasma gun, not at the ends.
".or..magnetic tube in place?"
A frame. Unless I'm missing something here. You could have a small magnetic field rigged up thats only triggered when the gas is injected into the "breech" from the "bullets" in the clip. Field kicks up, charges, laser beam, fire. And all this can be held in a fairly straightforward weapon chassis. With cold plasma there's not so much to worry about heat exchange, though with hot plasma you're going to have to be real careful about what gets into the "breech". But we're talking future weaponry, so the breech will be well and truly sealed from the outside world, and the "bullets" would contain only pure gas. The barrel could be protected by an EM field that prevents anything getting *in* and that would also speed up anything going *out*
"your weapon is not molten yet,you got the discharge to heat the gas to generate the plasma..whoooops.."
Not a question of "heat" since (if you're using hot plasma) its all in a small highly shielded chamber that shoots through a one way barrel that'd be surrounded by cooling vents (on the off chance there's one or two atoms floating about that shouldnt be) and thus sends the projectile (weapon would refer to the entire device) flying towards the target down its little laser path.
"so what do you think you have to do to shield your cold plasma against the athmosphere?"
I'd be relying on the ionisation effect
"it would work over a small distance...some centimeters ,but not over a half meter... sure.. a uncontrolled plasmastream would possible..but ineffective and a waste of power.."
By whose standard? Have you made one? Secondly, plasma welders are purposefully designed to be small and easily controlled. We're talking about shooting a blob? of plasma over a moderate distance - possible using a strong laser (if they can make wireless tazers whack people at a decent distance, there's nothing stopping a logical progression using plasma).
Second, even if thats TOO theoretical, the current WORKING wireless tazer shoots an aerosol spray at the target first, before doing the tazing. If the uv laser can't ionise a clear path, then its not entirely inconceivable that the hypothetical plasma gun could stream out a focused gas (clinging to the aforementioned laser beam) and then within that aerosol spray, release a more tightly focused plasma bolt.
""regular" produced oxygen,nitrogen,or argon plasma would heat the surrounding atmosphere and turn it into plasma too,this detracts power from the plasma and turn it into regular gas again"
But if you've accelerated it to a sufficiently high speed, this shouldn't be a problem. Ok so it probably wont cross continents but it'll get across a corridor easy enough. Again, I'm working to the use of cold plasma through a laser beam - I'm not entirely sure about HOT plasma on a laser beam.
"maybe its just my bad spelling...my english isnt the best, but i hope you understand my point,i cant explain it with better words"
Physics is ALWAYS hard to explain, heh, no matter what the language <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Comments
Mainly because of their colors.
CURRENTLY.... its not dense enough to really do any impact damage.... however currently is a world away from a futuristic sci-fi game.
As for the engine, as a propulsion tool it would need the "vacuum" of space (I say "vacuum" because on a quantum level its not really a vacuum, and on a more conventional level it still contains large bodies of hydrogen, etc) but as a weapon you wouldn't need the vacuum. And even thats becoming a moot point when they've already created vacuum free welders.
BTW, not commenting on every line, and instead choosing only to attempt to shoot down the bits you can answer, is just poor etiquette. I mean really, you shoot down this person's idea (I don't care how much people like or dislike him) with a bunch of technobabble that you won't even back up. Thats just plain rudeness.
Cold plasma is considered to be of growing importance, and certainly in the defense industry.
CURRENTLY.... its not dense enough to really do any impact damage.... however currently is a world away from a futuristic sci-fi game.
As for the engine, as a propulsion tool it would need the "vacuum" of space (I say "vacuum" because on a quantum level its not really a vacuum, and on a more conventional level it still contains large bodies of hydrogen, etc) but as a weapon you wouldn't need the vacuum. And even thats becoming a moot point when they've already created vacuum free welders.
BTW, not commenting on every line, and instead choosing only to attempt to shoot down the bits you can answer, is just poor etiquette. I mean really, you shoot down this person's idea (I don't care how much people like or dislike him) with a bunch of technobabble that you won't even back up. Thats just plain rudeness.
Cold plasma is considered to be of growing importance, and certainly in the defense industry. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
you havent really read my posts.. i think thats rude <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
with theoretical i mean using cold plasma to transfer energy over a great distance under athmosperic conditions is very theoretical.
i know that there are plasma cutters...(im not talking about this little portable 110 volt devices) do you know how much power, and shielding gas you need to center the plasma, only to get a very short plasma arc to cut metal? and the target needs the opposite charge of the torch electrode,to generate a electric discharge,that heats the high pressurized cutting gas and turns it into plasma..first the discharge just reaches the nozzle of the cutter,this discharge heats the gas,when it turns into plasma the electrical conductivity of the plasma causes the arc to transfer to the workpiece,where it heats the remaining cutting gas
.. good as tool...but bad as weapon.. (i know you meant the cutter just as a example... but its the next existing thing next to a weapon)
when you would to build a weapon based on a plasma cutter u need a very high voltage to generate a electric discharge to the target (you have no plasma yet to transfer that discharge)..and thats where the theory starts..
IF you are able to generate a discharge that is strong enough to hit a electroconductive target that stands in front of you,that alone would give a weapon,you wont need to generate plasma anymore...
ok.. theory... lets say..the target is a tank... you fire a discharge at that tank,you still need shielding gas to multiplex the generated plasma stream on a specified point...
theres the next leak in this theory...what do you have to do to hold that shielding gas.or..magnetic tube in place? anyway.. lets say you an accomplish this task... your weapon is not molten yet,you got the discharge to heat the gas to generate the plasma..whoooops.. do you know how much power such a discharge over this distance need to heat it that high? blah... plasma cutter is a bad example.. whats left? this would work with cold plasma too... you wont need the plasma itself to destroy a target,you use the plasma to transport a discharge through it ..hmm.. you still need a shielding to multiplex,and prevent the atmosphere around the plasma stream to make the gas "dirty" i believe you cannot make cold plasma with oxygen like a plasmacutter it does.. cold plasma in our athmosphere would mix up with other gases, it would loos energy, and its 4rth energy state... so what do you think you have to do to shield your cold plasma against the athmosphere?
it would work over a small distance...some centimeters ,but not over a half meter...
sure.. a uncontrolled plasmastream would possible..but ineffective and a waste of power..
"regular" produced oxygen,nitrogen,or argon plasma would heat the surrounding atmosphere and turn it into plasma too,this detracts power from the plasma and turn it into regular gas again... making plasma under earth conditions is like making fire under water... sure..there are underwater phosphor torches (that would be a plasma cutter <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> )
in your last post you answered lotsof stuff ive already mentioned before <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> and i wanst talking about "ABSULUTE" vacuum... i dont know if anyone has done something like that on earth yet.
maybe its just my bad spelling...my english isnt the best, but i hope you understand my point,i cant explain it with better words
If you were going to do this (and you shouldnt...ever ever ever) you could've picked a gun WORTH scribbling on. Maybe something by HK perhaps. But Glock? You sicken me.
Correction, I have read your posts, and I find fobbing off a lack of reply on "thats silly" to be in poor taste.
"using cold plasma to transfer energy over a great distance under athmosperic conditions is very theoretical."
Transfer energy? Oh, no no no, you use cold plasma as a hypothetical shield and decontaminant. The real glitch is getting the plasma dense enough - but they're working on it. Its nothing to do with energy (other than, what, the kinetic energy of a small dense electrically charged projectile. But that doesnt seem to be the energy you're talking about).
"do you know how much power, and shielding gas you need to center the plasma, only to get a very short plasma arc to cut metal?"
Of course now we're changing subject to HOT plasma, which is certainly not cold plasma. Second, the power, shielding, etc, is irrelevant since you could utilise a pulse which cuts down on shielding AND power. Second, if you consider COLD plasma, which is what I've been talking about, shielding isnt as much of an issue, since cold plasma can be generated between two plates. Use that and mix it with a laser and you get a rather effective little weapon (if somewhat distant from our current grasp).
"target needs the opposite charge of the torch electrode,to generate a electric discharge..."
No, because you simply move the plasma from the front of the cutter to the middle, build up a sufficient electrostatic charge, and boost it right out in the same manner as the wireless tazer.
"a very high voltage to generate a electric discharge to the target (you have no plasma yet to transfer that discharge)..and thats where the theory starts.."
Nah you just ionise the air. It'd be fiddly but they've pulled it off with tazers so its theoretically just as easy with plasma (shielding issues aside).
"you wont need to generate plasma anymore..."
And a tazer would give you a nasty shock, true. However lets run with the NS backstory that the Aliens are bacteria - electricity may not affect them at all. Hence, the cold/hot plasma most certainly WILL make an impact.
"shielding gas to multiplex the generated plasma stream on a specified point..."
Nnnnnnnnnnnnnooooooopppppppppppppppppe, you put it through a laser stream. Which bypasses the need for some form of electromagnetic torus bullet. Funnelled through the laser, you're going to have little bleed.
"what do you have to do to hold that shielding gas"
Well for the formation of the plasma, as I recall they use the same gas thats used to form the plasma. And thats all packed in the middle of our little cold plasma gun, not at the ends.
".or..magnetic tube in place?"
A frame. Unless I'm missing something here. You could have a small magnetic field rigged up thats only triggered when the gas is injected into the "breech" from the "bullets" in the clip. Field kicks up, charges, laser beam, fire. And all this can be held in a fairly straightforward weapon chassis. With cold plasma there's not so much to worry about heat exchange, though with hot plasma you're going to have to be real careful about what gets into the "breech". But we're talking future weaponry, so the breech will be well and truly sealed from the outside world, and the "bullets" would contain only pure gas. The barrel could be protected by an EM field that prevents anything getting *in* and that would also speed up anything going *out*
"your weapon is not molten yet,you got the discharge to heat the gas to generate the plasma..whoooops.."
Not a question of "heat" since (if you're using hot plasma) its all in a small highly shielded chamber that shoots through a one way barrel that'd be surrounded by cooling vents (on the off chance there's one or two atoms floating about that shouldnt be) and thus sends the projectile (weapon would refer to the entire device) flying towards the target down its little laser path.
"so what do you think you have to do to shield your cold plasma against the athmosphere?"
I'd be relying on the ionisation effect
"it would work over a small distance...some centimeters ,but not over a half meter... sure.. a uncontrolled plasmastream would possible..but ineffective and a waste of power.."
By whose standard? Have you made one? Secondly, plasma welders are purposefully designed to be small and easily controlled. We're talking about shooting a blob? of plasma over a moderate distance - possible using a strong laser (if they can make wireless tazers whack people at a decent distance, there's nothing stopping a logical progression using plasma).
Second, even if thats TOO theoretical, the current WORKING wireless tazer shoots an aerosol spray at the target first, before doing the tazing. If the uv laser can't ionise a clear path, then its not entirely inconceivable that the hypothetical plasma gun could stream out a focused gas (clinging to the aforementioned laser beam) and then within that aerosol spray, release a more tightly focused plasma bolt.
""regular" produced oxygen,nitrogen,or argon plasma would heat the surrounding atmosphere and turn it into plasma too,this detracts power from the plasma and turn it into regular gas again"
But if you've accelerated it to a sufficiently high speed, this shouldn't be a problem. Ok so it probably wont cross continents but it'll get across a corridor easy enough. Again, I'm working to the use of cold plasma through a laser beam - I'm not entirely sure about HOT plasma on a laser beam.
"maybe its just my bad spelling...my english isnt the best, but i hope you understand my point,i cant explain it with better words"
Physics is ALWAYS hard to explain, heh, no matter what the language <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->