<!--QuoteBegin--#Ha.Ze-+Sep 25 2003, 02:46 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (#Ha.Ze- @ Sep 25 2003, 02:46 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I'd rather not have a flame thrower and wait until we know that no one is going to add another alien in. "We" still have four weapon slots left to use. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I agree, or perhaps if we do that, we can expand the weapons by another slot, its been done before in another HL mod, I forget which though :-\
Man that BG fire pysics looked good. I still think the easiest way to do this is too put NS into HL2.
A FlameThrower would own in this game. Have it good against structures and Kharaa at close range but use ammo quickly. Maybe with a slight push (No animal is that sadistic to jump into flames).
But other things should come first to the game. IR or night vision for the marines. <i>"Kharaa are naturally resistant to most forms of detection – for instance, their body temperature tends to match the room's."</i> So IR goggles shouldn't bother them too much. And maybe a vision for the Kharaa to see all structures better in the dark. And some other Kharaa balances need to be adressed before we go adding new weapons.
Alcapwn"War is the science of destruction" - John AbbotJoin Date: 2003-06-21Member: 17590Members
<!--QuoteBegin--RuBy+Sep 25 2003, 03:17 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (RuBy @ Sep 25 2003, 03:17 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I really hope the flame thrower can make it into NS... as said before burning stuff is just cool! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> too true! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
flayra said that DRAWING the particles was waht he was worried about. Not the collison. I think....
EpidemicDark Force GorgeJoin Date: 2003-06-29Member: 17781Members
Because marine weapons needs more diversity, the flametrower should be hard to control, but when fired correctly deal significant damage <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Epidemic+Sep 25 2003, 03:29 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Epidemic @ Sep 25 2003, 03:29 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Because marine weapons needs more diversity, the flametrower should be hard to control, but when fired correctly deal significant damage <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> It would be cool if there was a custom animation when FF was on. You set your team mate on fire and the animation makes him scream and runn around with his arms in the air "For the love of god.... ahahahahaha MY FLESH!!!"
Like I said before, stick it in and see what happens. If it can be done, do it, and work from there. I'm sure if it IS included there will be some serious balance issues...so as long as the FT isnt an all-powerful-uber-Kharaa-killer, things should be OK.
Maybe small things like (as I said before <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> ) gas tanks exploding. Not being able to drop FT ammo for the user; he must return to base to get ammo.
I really think it should not be included if it looks bad - NS is a rather flashy cool looking game IMO, and a poor FT like the Pyro's in TFC would lower the standard of the game. But making it look more realistic may slow down computers to a sleepy snail's pace. Compromise?
Lets see what Flayra has to say, anyways. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Hate to break it to you, but flamethrowers weren't invented to kill bugs. They were invented to kill people in incredibly painful ways. They're also excellent for flushing foxholes or (hmm!) vents. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I'm probably gonna anger you but flamethrowers were first meant to burn off the dead/dying in no-man's land during WW1.
<!--QuoteBegin--Talesin+Sep 25 2003, 12:41 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Talesin @ Sep 25 2003, 12:41 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> As well, a workable volumetric physics system was already devised in the S&I Forum, in a flamethrower post over a half-year ago, <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Thank you.
What would be better for taking on fast moving and ambushing enemy than something that can kill from around the corner and doesn't require direct aim <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Maybe small things like (as I said before <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> ) gas tanks exploding. Not being able to drop FT ammo for the user; he must return to base to get ammo.
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I like this idea. You could even just make the armory not able to give FT ammo, maybe make a new structure you have to research to get FT, and get ammo from that new structure for FT only.
<!--QuoteBegin--Majin+Sep 25 2003, 10:51 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Majin @ Sep 25 2003, 10:51 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I don't think any game has a better flame thrower than RtCW. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Unreal 2 has one BADASS looking flamethrower IMO. Its mighty fun to use in XMP <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
What a flamethrower would add to NS(Imagine you are reading the manual of the flame thrower. Warning, rough rough draft):
Area of effect damage for marines, and the more concentrated the fire is, the more dmg it deals. So in a vent, you would get a roasted skulk in a second (no more pesky gorges bile bombing your base from that nearby vent), but out in the open, it could take up to 7 seconds to kill a skulk, depending on what upgrades the marine and the skulk have.
And it wouldn't just hit one skulk... nope, it would hit whatever was in it's range, dealing lots and lots of splash damage. It would weaken everything equally, and it would be nigh impossible to dodge, not even the best skulk could probably dodge a half decent flame thrower marine. Grouped up aliens would BURRRRN! Gorge gangs? Whoops, lets see them try to heal through all of this *Whoosssh FROOOOGGHHHH...* Pesky lerk in the vent? Skulks around the courner? All toast. Another thing would be that bigger classes should take addition dmg from the flame thrower, as bigger creatures have a larger surface area to be burnt... The flame thrower also has some other big ammo related advantages: The flame thrower never has to reload, it's all propelant based anyhow. This way, the flame thrower can keep up non-stop dmg, so if your allies bring skulks into the reds, there's a really good chance you will finish it off. In addition to this, the ammo for the gun is not carried with the marine itself, but with a tank attached to the actual weapon, any marine that picks up a dropped flame thrower will still have exactly as much ammo as it had when dropped. And finnally, all ammo collected from an armory or from the commander is transferred by nanites directly into the fuel tank, meaning a good comm who's on top of his soldier's needs can keep up the flame forever.
However, like any weapon, it will have it's downsides. While frying skulks by the masses might suit you, a marine with an LMG will kill the skulk several times faster than you will with a Flame thrower in the open. One skulk should be able to completely own your pyro ways, if you don't have any backup. Also, you will only be fairly close ranged. The flamethower would be like a souped up version of lerk spores, except with volumetric damage and coverage, and it would still be quite lacking against larger creatures, as it won't deal dmg fast enough to kill it without a lot of good support. Every commander should be avised not to hand out more than one flame thower per 5 marines, as a flame thower's dmg would not stack too well, as fire + fire only means a little bit hotter, and it would only deal 50% more dmg per flame thrower. Additionally, the flame thrower is an absolute <b>pig</b> on ammo; not only is it consumed very fast but the stream must be kept up for a long time in order to make the kills, so once on the field the comm must spend a good portion of res to keep the flame thrower flaming.
The Flame Thrower will be a powerful weapon, but only if used properly in a squad. Oh, and don't worry about friendly fire; marine armor is naturally fire-resistant and all LA marines will take minimal damage from the flame thrower, while HA marines will barely notice they are being hit with it.
<!--QuoteBegin--|2ed |2ebel+Sep 25 2003, 12:20 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (|2ed |2ebel @ Sep 25 2003, 12:20 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I dont see why there SHOULD be a Flamethrower. In Aliens vs Predator (AvP) the flamer was there because the Xenomorph's were insectoid and because in the second movie they couldn't fire their Rifle's due to the coolant tanks in the atmosphere processor (I know ive obviously seen the movie one too many times).
Anyways a Flamethrower would be out of place in a game like this. Personally i think the only weapon the marines need now is hand held grenades.
Reasons i think its out of place: Skulks are more dog like than anything. Same with gorges. An Onos is too much like a Rhino or Elephant and a Fade is more man like. Lerks are more like Bats. They are not insectoid and it just seems wierd to me to use a flamethrower against them.
Not to mention that "nubs" will probably end up nailing their allies just as much and if FF is off and they dont take damage from a flamer then its just a little overpowering as they could hide in a group of marines and flame around their allies and kill all the aliens a lot more easily.
SO unless you nerf it to heck and back it might be a mistake to put in. Granted it will be fun (i mean we're all pyros at heart right?) but its...just not right for NS IMO.
-Red <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Technically flame throwers were made to kill more than one person at once at a semi-close range, which is why they were used in trenches. There was no place to run or hide, if theres someone with a flamethrower, either die there by minutes of fire or try to get out of the trench only to be hailed by bullets.
Anyway back on topic, the thing is, will this lag comps that aren't basicly super computers?
Flamethrower would be sweeter <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/nerd.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd.gif'><!--endemo-->
Imagine a jetpacker flying around a roasting hive...drool
Personally I think the flamethrower should count as an armor, or atleast the comm has the drop the tank with it for the armor (So you don't have JPers just buzzing around with it), or give it a weak spot where it'll explode if bitten there.
they should only be able to fire for a limited time too... if they go over it the pressure in the tank destabilises, the flames jet up the thrower pipe and ignite the gas tanks on the marines back with explosive results XD
<!--QuoteBegin--Vaco+Sep 26 2003, 01:02 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Vaco @ Sep 26 2003, 01:02 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> FT=spores. They are the same if you think about it. The only diff for the ft would be improved damage, and no stacking. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> No it would definatly stack. But only 50% dmg would stack, so with each addition FT it would deal less and less dmg, to the point where 4 FT's would only deal as much as 2 FT's.
I think FT marines should take dmage after a few seconds of spray from the heat and oxygen loss, like drowning they get it back when they stop unless they are wearing HA. As HA is sealed they will not take damage.
Damage to aliens should be similar to spore damage, but a bit heavier over a much shorter range. About 10-15m in an open corridor.
A base level skulk should be able to run through a base level flame to the weilder and me heavily damaged, very nearly but not quite dead by the time in finishes burning. If the marine was backing away the skulk may well be dead before he gets there. Aliens should continue to burn for a second after exiting the flame.
Lerks in vents should be toast, slow moving gorges also. Carapaced or Celerity skulks 1 on 1 should be able to drop a FT marine in a head on rush so the marine needs backup.
This is my current opinion... it may be wildly out but I'd like to see the FT enter the testing stage.
<!--QuoteBegin--Forlorn+Sep 25 2003, 06:56 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Sep 25 2003, 06:56 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Another thing would be that bigger classes should take addition dmg from the flame thrower, as bigger creatures have a larger surface area to be burnt... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I hate to be a pedant (he lied), but larger aliens have a smaller surface area:volume ratio (if their skin is of roughly equal "wrinkliness"), meaning that there is more volume of animal per unit surface area of skin. Heating the skin would mean faster overall body heating for the small animal due to the higher SA:V ratio and thus damage would be less for larger animals, so long as both were exposed to the same volume of flame.
If the small animal is only touched by part of the flame, it is reasonable to say that despite the lower proportion of surface area, the larger animal getting the full effects of the flame would suffer greater damage.
Either way though it'd hurt like hell tbh <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Roobubba+Sep 26 2003, 09:04 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Roobubba @ Sep 26 2003, 09:04 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Forlorn+Sep 25 2003, 06:56 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Sep 25 2003, 06:56 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Another thing would be that bigger classes should take addition dmg from the flame thrower, as bigger creatures have a larger surface area to be burnt... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I hate to be a pedant (he lied), but larger aliens have a smaller surface area:volume ratio (if their skin is of roughly equal "wrinkliness"), meaning that there is more volume of animal per unit surface area of skin. Heating the skin would mean faster overall body heating for the small animal due to the higher SA:V ratio and thus damage would be less for larger animals, so long as both were exposed to the same volume of flame.
If the small animal is only touched by part of the flame, it is reasonable to say that despite the lower proportion of surface area, the larger animal getting the full effects of the flame would suffer greater damage.
Either way though it'd hurt like hell tbh <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Roo <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I don't think such a ratio would matter in this situation.
Surface Area:Volume would be irrelevent. Only surface area values should apply.
From a gameplay standpoint:
The FT should not be useless vs. bigger lifeforms. It should deal around 10% of a smaller creature's life per second, and 10% for a bigger creture per second. And don't say this is too strong. A second is a <b>long</b> time in NS.
From a realism standpoint:
Only surface area would matter because you are burning off that much more skin. Assume you are burning 100% of any given creature's skin, so it would always deal 10% of their life(this value seems fair).
I hope this clears up by what I mean of the FT 'dealing more dmg', because it does deal more numbers, but the percents would remain the same.
PLease dont forget to put a laser pointer ontop of the flam3throughwar, and a grenadelaunzer underneath it, and please add the logo "Gargamel's Choice" on both sides. And put some decent firing modes too! Flame-Laser,Flame-Burst,Flame-Emergengy-Explosion (for those Onos), Autodestruct Atomic Flame Blast (For Hive Suicide-Killers). And add a fireeqstinguish0r in case you burn your mate, so you can save his life! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
tankefuglOne Script To Rule Them All...Trondheim, NorwayJoin Date: 2002-11-14Member: 8641Members, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
I'd also like the aliens to shriek loudly when hit with it.
"Hey, flame that vent -- I believe there's a skulk in there." *WOOOOOOOPHF* *shriiiieeeeeeeeeek!*
Alcapwn"War is the science of destruction" - John AbbotJoin Date: 2003-06-21Member: 17590Members
<!--QuoteBegin--Cheez!+Sep 26 2003, 09:45 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cheez! @ Sep 26 2003, 09:45 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> And what would be the role of a flame thrower? To sweep vents and deny large areas to the kharaa?
Hmm sounds an aweful lot like the GRENADE LAUNCHER!
We don't need a flamethrower if you ask me, its just a peice of useless eye-candy.
Let flayra concentrate on the next version of ns and ns:c, not eye candy. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> its not eye-candy, it would add more to the game. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
They should make it like a real flame-thrower.
Instead of just sitting there spraying flames, you do short blast of flames.
If you ever watch like a documentery or somethign with a guy with an FT, you know what i meen. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
EpidemicDark Force GorgeJoin Date: 2003-06-29Member: 17781Members
By any means, the FT would be very different from the grenade launcher. The grenade "gun" trows grenades who needs while to explode (unless it hits an enemy) and can only have 4 shots in it. The FT is able to deal damage right away and doesnt need to reload, also, what's the role of weapons in general? to kill the enemy and enemy structures, why doesnt CS just have a sniper, a rifle and a pistol, I mean, then you would think the roles was filled out for them then, but the other weapons means different behaviour for them, adds strategy and varying (and diversity, which I think NS lacks).
lmg useful against skulks, lerks... hmg good against onos, fade, lerk, skulk... gl good against clearing vents, buildings, making aliens run away lol..
Flame thrower would be useful at burning buildings, they burn and die faster than hmg lmg etc, they just burn... and slowly implode? or die or do something...
and not good vs onos / armor good vs lerk, skulk and gorge, not as much armor but not as strong as hmg or gl, making it a balanced tool to remove buildings (stronger than all weapons against the building) but not so good against the actual aliens since they can move around etc, but making it useful enough to give them some damage so your not totally defenseless (should travel with team anyway...)
another thing to shove on the list is it's quite hard to see when you're on fire, so you should have a flame effect burning on your screen, not to mention you'll probably be blinded by all the pretty particles when you're in the fire-cloud anyway. Just to pinch something off AvP though; if a still burning alien hits a marine the marine should ignite too after x amount of hits XD
Comments
I agree, or perhaps if we do that, we can expand the weapons by another slot, its been done before in another HL mod, I forget which though :-\
A FlameThrower would own in this game. Have it good against structures and Kharaa at close range but use ammo quickly. Maybe with a slight push (No animal is that sadistic to jump into flames).
But other things should come first to the game. IR or night vision for the marines. <i>"Kharaa are naturally resistant to most forms of detection – for instance, their body temperature tends to match the room's."</i>
So IR goggles shouldn't bother them too much.
And maybe a vision for the Kharaa to see all structures better in the dark. And some other Kharaa balances need to be adressed before we go adding new weapons.
too true! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
flayra said that DRAWING the particles was waht he was worried about. Not the collison. I think....
It would be cool if there was a custom animation when FF was on. You set your team mate on fire and the animation makes him scream and runn around with his arms in the air "For the love of god.... ahahahahaha MY FLESH!!!"
Maybe small things like (as I said before <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> ) gas tanks exploding. Not being able to drop FT ammo for the user; he must return to base to get ammo.
I really think it should not be included if it looks bad - NS is a rather flashy cool looking game IMO, and a poor FT like the Pyro's in TFC would lower the standard of the game. But making it look more realistic may slow down computers to a sleepy snail's pace. Compromise?
Lets see what Flayra has to say, anyways. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Hate to break it to you, but flamethrowers weren't invented to kill bugs. They were invented to kill people in incredibly painful ways. They're also excellent for flushing foxholes or (hmm!) vents. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm probably gonna anger you but flamethrowers were first meant to burn off the dead/dying in no-man's land during WW1.
Thank you.
Scampers off to go work on this.
Maybe small things like (as I said before <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> ) gas tanks exploding. Not being able to drop FT ammo for the user; he must return to base to get ammo.
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I like this idea. You could even just make the armory not able to give FT ammo, maybe make a new structure you have to research to get FT, and get ammo from that new structure for FT only.
Unreal 2 has one BADASS looking flamethrower IMO.
Its mighty fun to use in XMP <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Area of effect damage for marines, and the more concentrated the fire is, the more dmg it deals. So in a vent, you would get a roasted skulk in a second (no more pesky gorges bile bombing your base from that nearby vent), but out in the open, it could take up to 7 seconds to kill a skulk, depending on what upgrades the marine and the skulk have.
And it wouldn't just hit one skulk... nope, it would hit whatever was in it's range, dealing lots and lots of splash damage. It would weaken everything equally, and it would be nigh impossible to dodge, not even the best skulk could probably dodge a half decent flame thrower marine.
Grouped up aliens would BURRRRN! Gorge gangs? Whoops, lets see them try to heal through all of this *Whoosssh FROOOOGGHHHH...* Pesky lerk in the vent? Skulks around the courner? All toast. Another thing would be that bigger classes should take addition dmg from the flame thrower, as bigger creatures have a larger surface area to be burnt...
The flame thrower also has some other big ammo related advantages: The flame thrower never has to reload, it's all propelant based anyhow. This way, the flame thrower can keep up non-stop dmg, so if your allies bring skulks into the reds, there's a really good chance you will finish it off. In addition to this, the ammo for the gun is not carried with the marine itself, but with a tank attached to the actual weapon, any marine that picks up a dropped flame thrower will still have exactly as much ammo as it had when dropped. And finnally, all ammo collected from an armory or from the commander is transferred by nanites directly into the fuel tank, meaning a good comm who's on top of his soldier's needs can keep up the flame forever.
However, like any weapon, it will have it's downsides. While frying skulks by the masses might suit you, a marine with an LMG will kill the skulk several times faster than you will with a Flame thrower in the open. One skulk should be able to completely own your pyro ways, if you don't have any backup. Also, you will only be fairly close ranged.
The flamethower would be like a souped up version of lerk spores, except with volumetric damage and coverage, and it would still be quite lacking against larger creatures, as it won't deal dmg fast enough to kill it without a lot of good support. Every commander should be avised not to hand out more than one flame thower per 5 marines, as a flame thower's dmg would not stack too well, as fire + fire only means a little bit hotter, and it would only deal 50% more dmg per flame thrower. Additionally, the flame thrower is an absolute <b>pig</b> on ammo; not only is it consumed very fast but the stream must be kept up for a long time in order to make the kills, so once on the field the comm must spend a good portion of res to keep the flame thrower flaming.
The Flame Thrower will be a powerful weapon, but only if used properly in a squad. Oh, and don't worry about friendly fire; marine armor is naturally fire-resistant and all LA marines will take minimal damage from the flame thrower, while HA marines will barely notice they are being hit with it.
Anyways a Flamethrower would be out of place in a game like this. Personally i think the only weapon the marines need now is hand held grenades.
Reasons i think its out of place: Skulks are more dog like than anything. Same with gorges. An Onos is too much like a Rhino or Elephant and a Fade is more man like. Lerks are more like Bats. They are not insectoid and it just seems wierd to me to use a flamethrower against them.
Not to mention that "nubs" will probably end up nailing their allies just as much and if FF is off and they dont take damage from a flamer then its just a little overpowering as they could hide in a group of marines and flame around their allies and kill all the aliens a lot more easily.
SO unless you nerf it to heck and back it might be a mistake to put in. Granted it will be fun (i mean we're all pyros at heart right?) but its...just not right for NS IMO.
-Red <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Technically flame throwers were made to kill more than one person at once at a semi-close range, which is why they were used in trenches. There was no place to run or hide, if theres someone with a flamethrower, either die there by minutes of fire or try to get out of the trench only to be hailed by bullets.
Anyway back on topic, the thing is, will this lag comps that aren't basicly super computers?
Flamethrower would be sweeter <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/nerd.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd.gif'><!--endemo-->
Imagine a jetpacker flying around a roasting hive...drool
No it would definatly stack. But only 50% dmg would stack, so with each addition FT it would deal less and less dmg, to the point where 4 FT's would only deal as much as 2 FT's.
Damage to aliens should be similar to spore damage, but a bit heavier over a much shorter range. About 10-15m in an open corridor.
A base level skulk should be able to run through a base level flame to the weilder and me heavily damaged, very nearly but not quite dead by the time in finishes burning. If the marine was backing away the skulk may well be dead before he gets there. Aliens should continue to burn for a second after exiting the flame.
Lerks in vents should be toast, slow moving gorges also. Carapaced or Celerity skulks 1 on 1 should be able to drop a FT marine in a head on rush so the marine needs backup.
This is my current opinion... it may be wildly out but I'd like to see the FT enter the testing stage.
Give them to the aliens instead!
I want to see fire-breathing Onos!
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I hate to be a pedant (he lied), but larger aliens have a smaller surface area:volume ratio (if their skin is of roughly equal "wrinkliness"), meaning that there is more volume of animal per unit surface area of skin. Heating the skin would mean faster overall body heating for the small animal due to the higher SA:V ratio and thus damage would be less for larger animals, so long as both were exposed to the same volume of flame.
If the small animal is only touched by part of the flame, it is reasonable to say that despite the lower proportion of surface area, the larger animal getting the full effects of the flame would suffer greater damage.
<!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Either way though it'd hurt like hell tbh <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Roo
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I hate to be a pedant (he lied), but larger aliens have a smaller surface area:volume ratio (if their skin is of roughly equal "wrinkliness"), meaning that there is more volume of animal per unit surface area of skin. Heating the skin would mean faster overall body heating for the small animal due to the higher SA:V ratio and thus damage would be less for larger animals, so long as both were exposed to the same volume of flame.
If the small animal is only touched by part of the flame, it is reasonable to say that despite the lower proportion of surface area, the larger animal getting the full effects of the flame would suffer greater damage.
<!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Either way though it'd hurt like hell tbh <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Roo <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't think such a ratio would matter in this situation.
Surface Area:Volume would be irrelevent. Only surface area values should apply.
From a gameplay standpoint:
The FT should not be useless vs. bigger lifeforms. It should deal around 10% of a smaller creature's life per second, and 10% for a bigger creture per second. And don't say this is too strong. A second is a <b>long</b> time in NS.
From a realism standpoint:
Only surface area would matter because you are burning off that much more skin. Assume you are burning 100% of any given creature's skin, so it would always deal 10% of their life(this value seems fair).
I hope this clears up by what I mean of the FT 'dealing more dmg', because it does deal more numbers, but the percents would remain the same.
And put some decent firing modes too! Flame-Laser,Flame-Burst,Flame-Emergengy-Explosion (for those Onos), Autodestruct Atomic Flame Blast (For Hive Suicide-Killers).
And add a fireeqstinguish0r in case you burn your mate, so you can save his life!
<!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
I WANT MY FLAMETHROWER! NOW!!
"Hey, flame that vent -- I believe there's a skulk in there."
*WOOOOOOOPHF*
*shriiiieeeeeeeeeek!*
Hmm sounds an aweful lot like the GRENADE LAUNCHER!
We don't need a flamethrower if you ask me, its just a peice of useless eye-candy.
Let flayra concentrate on the next version of ns and ns:c, not eye candy.
Hmm sounds an aweful lot like the GRENADE LAUNCHER!
We don't need a flamethrower if you ask me, its just a peice of useless eye-candy.
Let flayra concentrate on the next version of ns and ns:c, not eye candy. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
its not eye-candy, it would add more to the game. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
They should make it like a real flame-thrower.
Instead of just sitting there spraying flames, you do short blast of flames.
If you ever watch like a documentery or somethign with a guy with an FT, you know what i meen. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
hmg good against onos, fade, lerk, skulk...
gl good against clearing vents, buildings, making aliens run away lol..
Flame thrower would be useful at burning buildings, they burn and die faster than hmg lmg etc, they just burn... and slowly implode? or die or do something...
and not good vs onos / armor
good vs lerk, skulk and gorge, not as much armor but not as strong as hmg or gl, making it a balanced tool to remove buildings (stronger than all weapons against the building) but not so good against the actual aliens since they can move around etc, but making it useful enough to give them some damage so your not totally defenseless (should travel with team anyway...)
Just to pinch something off AvP though; if a still burning alien hits a marine the marine should ignite too after x amount of hits XD