Map Layout Done
2_of_Eight
Join Date: 2003-08-20 Member: 20016Members
Join Date: 2003-08-20 Member: 20016Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Need comments on placement, etc</div> Hello
I am going to try to make a map for NS (not NS:C).
For the past few days, I have been drawing the layout of the map, and I'll start work on it soon. Before I waste time creating something useless, can you guys please give me feedback on this? Maybe I should change some corridors, etc.
I don't have a name for the map yet, suggestions welcome.
I will upload the layout soon, in the meanwhile, you can give me your email and I'll send it to you.
I am going to try to make a map for NS (not NS:C).
For the past few days, I have been drawing the layout of the map, and I'll start work on it soon. Before I waste time creating something useless, can you guys please give me feedback on this? Maybe I should change some corridors, etc.
I don't have a name for the map yet, suggestions welcome.
I will upload the layout soon, in the meanwhile, you can give me your email and I'll send it to you.
Comments
^^ looky there
Geez.
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Oh hmm. I was about to post the scanned version, but then I saw that it was out of date. The newer one wasn't scanned... it'd take too long to scan that, so I will just finish up the PP version and post that one. 30 minutes left <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
<a href='http://us.f1f.yahoofs.com/users/7042d1a3/bc/Other/map1.ppt?bfoged_AE733hbD0' target='_blank'>PowerPoint</a>
<a href='http://us.f1f.yahoofs.com/users/7042d1a3/bc/Other/__hr_map2.gif?bfoged_A6Q2dSpH4' target='_blank'>GIF</a>
To explain some things:
Elevators - they're there to slow down movement beteen the Marine Start and some hives.
Train Stations - they're there to allow quick access between hives and other locations (?). The routes would be easily accessable by both sides. There would be no trains <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> because it'd create too much confusion and whatnot.
A lot of turns and not many long straight corridors - I wanted this map to be skulk-friendly. I don't know if I over-did it <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo-->.
Train Routes - I didn't do these yet, but it's obvious that they connect the train stations. I need input on where to route them... how it would be best. It wouldn't be possible to build on them (balance?). They would be located under everything else (corridors, etc) and would come up to the train stations, which woul be at corridor level.
[edit]
The PowerPoint one shows up as a slide show. To edit it and be able to move stuff around, right-click and select "edit slide". <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
<a href='http://us.f1f.yahoofs.com/users/7042d1a3/bc/Other/map1.ppt?bfoged_AE733hbD0' target='_blank'>PowerPoint</a>
<a href='http://us.f1f.yahoofs.com/users/7042d1a3/bc/Other/__hr_map2.gif?bfoged_A6Q2dSpH4' target='_blank'><span style='font-size:21pt;line-height:100%'>GIF</a><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<span style='font-size:21pt;line-height:100%'></span></span>
Eh? Yee likes?
Well, here's a GIF, hosted by these forums. I can send the PP file, if someone wants it (to edit easier, etc).
South+East hive too close make them further away from teh marines.
Get rid of some corridors or hallways or whatever you wana call dem!!!
Then show us another pic!!!! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Most of the resouce nozzels are very close to alien hives, and far away from the marine start. You may want to encourage marine expansion with this, but if the marines do expand, there is a 2/3rds chance than they will run into an alien spawn when they do so. You are going to get a lot of quick games out of this map becuase of which.
Probaly best to rearage the resouce nozzles some so that there is one somewhat close to the marine base. This will alow them to compete with the fast expanding aliens, and encourage more expansion.
Another problem with your resouce nozzles at the moment is that the marines will always go to the dual nozzle area first, odds are, the aliens will go to the other single ones. This is going to be a death sentence for the marines in public play because the marines and commander will want to hold the dual reses, thinking it will ensure victory.
Problem Two:
Curves. You have lots of curves. Maybe you just like drawing that way, but if you decide to have a lot of curves in the map, you are going to increase r_speeds with little game play improvement. If you want to get a good looking curve, you will need at least four brushes for it. That means a hall way the player will normaly will see as six brushes (floor, cealing, walls, wall ahead), cealing ahead) they will see 10 because of the curves. Only do so many curves if you have less detail on the walls/cealings/floors in that area.
Problem Three:
Right now, most of your hives can be sieged w/o the marines actually getting near the hive. I can easily see at least one place to seige the hive w/o needing that much work to get there. The biggest prolem is probally the top most hive. The hall just below it would most likely allow the marines to seige it w/o much the aliens can do. The other hives aren't a major problem looking back at it, but you can still build seiges farily far away from the hives (and resuliting alien spawns) for most hives
Problem Four:
In a losing marine game, they are going to have a real easy time turteling up. This isn't normally a problem, however, if they do decided to push out, the long halls to the nearest resouce points will probaly be filled up with OCs, and even if they do get to a resouce node, they will be so close to an alien hive that it wouldn't be to long before they set it up.
Now you could of desighned it this way, allowing in a three hive situation, they can get to one of the resouce nodes and put seiges down and attack the hive w/o much trouble, but I doubt that.
Problem Five:
You hurt marines alot with so many vents into the double resouce room. Early in game, if mariens get there, they have to defend five points from alien attack. Maybe if two of the vents were weildeble it woulnd't be that much of a problem.
==========================
Overall, it would be a better layout if a few halls were changed, and resouce node or two were put close to the marines. Easily seigable hives, and no where practical for the marines to expand too (again, 66% chance they will run into an alien hive, or near one, when expanding) makes the map a little to alien friendly
Thank you very much for your comments.
I've chosen to redo the layout completely, since the old one had too many problems. I'm still sticking with the round corners <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> they look so cool.
Right now, I'm done the bottom 1/3 of the map (Marine Start and a hive, some passageways in-between). I will post what I finished right now, and add/edit more tomorrow.
Guys, please comment, don't just come and look <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> I need all the feedback I can get. Thank you very much <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
I have this problem: too many RT's, and not enough hives (1). Look at this and please tell me what to delete and whatnot.
[edit]
Sorry, forgot to add the legend. You can look on the previous layout, it's there.
I am done with the layout, please comment on this one: it has everything - hives, RT's, vents, etc.
About the elevators... I placed them to slow down movement between hives/other locations. Maybe I should make them with a roof, so skulks will have to wait or something?
Thank you for pointing out those useless corridors. I will move/delete them now.
#Ha.Ze-,
Can you explain why corridors "stink" and "bomb"? The only reason I could think of is r_speeds (lots of faces). Why else?
That was supposed to be "why do *curves* blablabla". Sorry.
Anyway, here's a newer version, which includes the deletion of some corridors, a new vent, and a new room.
The middle vent should be removed. It easily would allow aliens to quickly cross the map in half the time of even the fastest marine. Even with the break in the vent, it allows a skulk to quickly cross half way across the map with no problems. Imagine a marine and a alien each at the entrance of the vent, and they have to get to the area on the other side. Just time them in your mind; with the vent, the alien will get there much, much faster than the marine.
Now, the easist thing will be to remove it. Or, you can make it welded closed. If you make it welded closed, it is the marines fault for opening it. In this case, they can open it when they have JPs and both teams can make use of it.
Vents should be more of a safe way for small aliens to move around the same way big aliens would rather than a short cut though the map.
The resouce nozzle by the upper right should be moved into the hive room. Not a major problem by any means, but just seems, out of place.
The same goes for the resouce nozzle by the elevator. I'm not shure how it will work and not look odd.
You could probaly get away with one or two elevators being weildeable to use. Or better yet, you can have a mataince room somewhere, when you have to weild a fuse to get one or two of the elevators to work; depends if you want to or not.
Second, there are major problems with the lower-right section of this layout. One of them is that it's way too labyrinthine. Another is that the area is packed with res nodes. Finally, from what I can see, it has two standard player accessible exits into the rest of the map.
Third, MS to Hive distances are too unequal. Compare the lower-left hive and the upper-left hive.
Fourth, Hive to Hive distances are too unequal. It looks like it would take at most 30 seconds to get from the upper-left hive to the upper-right hive, and at least 60 seconds to get from the upper-right hive to the lower-left hive.
The layout is rubbish because:
- it's mostly corridors (curving ones for that, and curves in these amounts are not a good idea)
- it's mostly labyrinthine corridors. You have many places where a far more simpler layout would suffice. For example, the two corridors leading to the triple-figure-eight shaped room. What's the point? They start few feet from each other and lead to same place. Both have elevators, another one has a res nozzle. Why not just one corridor in place of the two?
- res nozzles are far too often placed in deadends or small "cupboards".
- there's no balance in MS2Hive times and Hive2Hive times.
I suggest you scrap everything. The design is so off that you can't IMO make it work without ripping the whole layout apart and that's exactly what I'm suggesting you to do.
- Start a new one with the hives and the MS in the same places. You'll notice that the top hives are much closer to each other than the bottom hive. Therefore it's between them that there has to be detours and things to slow the players down, not between the top hives and the bottom hive.
- Don't use strictly hallways. Figure out a layout of larger rooms and interconnect them with hallways. Easier said than done, but believe me - no one wants to play a map where there's nothing but a labyrinth of hallways between hives and MS. Use chokepoints and central key areas that will be fought over.
- Don't design dead-ends. Having a vent in that room doesn't affect it being a dead end.
- Place res nozzles so that they don't interfere with the flow of the map. If most of them are in "cupboards" it simply doesn't work. Remove couple of nozzles.
- Use multiple hallways leading from A to B only for flavour. Always question the need for them. 95% of the situations the two hallways can and should be merged into one. This includes overly complex individual areas like the res nozzle on the right side of the map, above MS. The routes it create form a figure-eight. Why not replace it with a proper room? Another culprit is the triple-figure-eight on the left side of the map.
- tone down the use of elevators.
Thank you for your comments. I realized that this layout still has too many flaws, and I will start a new one [almost] from scratch.
I will post another layout in a day or so. Thanks again.
I've redone the layout completely, again. I hope I don't have too many flaws, but if I do, I can depend on -Driftwood-, wRaven, and others to help me improve it.
I am not done yet, but I want to see if the lower part of the map is OK for now. Maybe too many res nodes?
PS. Don't comment about curves please, I know they're not good and that they lag and whatnot. I just like drawing like that <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->.
you still seem to be overly relying on corridors over rooms - take a look at a map like Hera to see how almost entirely rooms can be accomplished.
- Still too much hallways and too few rooms. Cash Car Star has a good suggestion - study the official maps and check out how they are built up and what kind of connectivity they have? Since I'm no mapper, I can't say whether laying down some brushes is a good idea. If you can't visualize the stuff you are drawing without it, it's definitely a good idea.
- Too much res IMO. You have currently nine nodes and if
you plan to give both of the upper hives two nearby nodes,
you will go over the limit. If you go for two equally accessible
nodes for a hive, they need to be a bit further away than a
single nearby node would be. My suggestion would be to give
each hive and MS one nearby node and make the teams fight
over the others. Too much res nearby doesn't offer incentive
to control map as much as limited nearby res.
Here's a graphic explanation of the stuff that bothers me most in the lower part of the map: