Any Useful Tactics For Current Mines?
Harry_S_Truman
Join Date: 2002-11-21 Member: 9568Members
Join Date: 2002-11-21 Member: 9568Members
Comments
I think mines are underused now b/c people have not adapted to the new role that mines play. If we give it time mines will fall into thier rightful place.
After that aliens WILL get cautious. Onos definitely will. At that point, all you can do is use them under vents to catch descending vent crawlers.
If all else fails you can always have suicide LA LMG rines who run out with mines and drop them while backpedalling. Though thats a desperation tactic (as well as handy sometimes when you want to empty a hive).
- Stopping big rushes. Whenever I see or think there is a big rush coming, I drop a pack or two. They will stop the rush cold.
- Anti gorge-gangs. Mines is one of the few things that will stop a gorge gang.
- Vents. You can completely seal off vents with them, several vents also allow you to place them so that they are unreachable for gorge bilebombs meaning aliens *have* to get hit by them to go through.
- Lotto. Plant mines in odd places. Who knows, you might get a lerk/fade on the retreat. If not, at least it will annoy whichever skulk stepped on it.
- Cheap and fast short-term protection. You can drop it on or around a newly built PG that you don't have time to defend with other means, for example.
All weapons have some sort of time locked weakness. Electric rts are great until second hive, regen skulks, or adren healspray gorges.
HA are good until you meet Onos.
Lerks are great until you meet HA.
Turrets are great until regen/cara creatures can hop the turrets and dice the tf.
Its the same for mines - mines are great until the ENEMY IS LOOKING FOR THEM.
You've a great window of opportunity until that point. Once the enemy are wise to your strategy, you need to react to that - in this case relegating the mines to "lucky" kills.
BTW NS has grenades, they come in a grenade launcher. Grenades are short term weapons - mines are long term. Marines have enough short term weapons, they already have grenades, so wanting hand grenades is a pretty silly suggestion.
Because the mines can only be triggered by a gorge/acid rocket, you force the aliens to use some teamwork instead of ramboing your base. This may delay attacks on a base because a skulk has to wait for a gorge to lug his fat self to clear the mines. There is also the possibility that the gorge may be killed en route. Mines are just another layer of defense. Don't be afraid to use em when you got cash, but I don't use them as primary defense because since a gorge makes it through you're toast. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Fun onos trap methods:
- Rigged to explode: set some to place mines where you will place the building. Place the building over the mines. When the building dies it will kill the offender if they are reckless. Not a very good method, but I use this when some smacktard places mines randomly in base and I play off this and put turrets over them. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> EDIT: I think the mines are still trigged if they are put under turret since they are so small.
- Exploit clipping: the TF clips a little. Its at the back of the TF on the large end. Place the mines over this fake part of the TF. No one can see it adn anything that attacks the large end will get killed. If they don't attack from this end there is a chance they will get reckless after the structure is destroyed and walk over over them. Everytime I've done this it works 75% of the time. Definately worth it if you can nab an onos.
- Classic Onos trap. Stack the mines behind you. Sit there and wait for the onos to gore/devour. If he is reckless he will run over the mines just behind you. This works 99% of the time. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> Doesn't work against those lame devour&run onos. But I wouldn't worry about those kind of onos in the first place.
There's no downside, because he either redeems, leaving the traps behind, or he runs over them on the way out and gets blown to hell.
Also useful as general defense early in the game, before fades
There are many desperate uses of them, but I would suggest using them on room openings, so a lone Marine doesnt get eaten by only 1 skulk (He should be able to kill 5 of them optimal). Excellent for denying ventmovent. Put them in base and get ready for serious friendly fire :/
- Stopping big rushes. Whenever I see or think there is a big rush coming, I drop a pack or two. They will stop the rush cold.
- Anti gorge-gangs. Mines is one of the few things that will stop a gorge gang.
- Vents. You can completely seal off vents with them, several vents also allow you to place them so that they are unreachable for gorge bilebombs meaning aliens *have* to get hit by them to go through.
- Lotto. Plant mines in odd places. Who knows, you might get a lerk/fade on the retreat. If not, at least it will annoy whichever skulk stepped on it.
- Cheap and fast short-term protection. You can drop it on or around a newly built PG that you don't have time to defend with other means, for example. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I've played many times with you as commander Stoneburg and you very rarely drop mines, which tells me they don't have any significant use. All I see are desparation tactics for most of them. The so-called "Onos Trap" is a desparate move and I have never seen an Onos killed by one. I don't argue that it doesn't happen, just that it is very rare.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I don't see how it "confirms their uselessness" more like it confirms you don't understand how the game works.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Why are you getting nasty Necrosis? I'm just suggesting that a weapon slot, since we all know they are limited, would be better spent with something that the Marines might actually find useful. For all the proponents of mines, I see very few coms dropping them outside of desparte situations. You can't argue against that.
The biggest insult for mines is the marine team gets no RFK for them. They are a no return weapon. Invest in a shotgun and that player can pay for the shotgun with the kills he gets. Sentry guns give RFK and no one has to fire them, they do require somewhat of a knowledge of placement, but so do mines. Another reason why mines don't get used.
Besdies, what's wrong with the Marines having 1 or 2 hand grendades? They don't have to be as powerful as those in the grenade launcher and they certainly don't have to have the same range.
Not true, I just drop them to specific people that know how I want them used. Earlier I would drop a pack of mines, watch some random person pick them up, then spend 2 minutes going "No.. no no no, not there... no, I want ... stop, no DON'T put them by the armory... ok, here's a new pack now.. wait, don't run off...".
Mines have uses. It's, as pointed out, not the end-all anymore though. Some good uses are...
- Stopping big rushes. Whenever I see or think there is a big rush coming, I drop a pack or two. They will stop the rush cold.
- Anti gorge-gangs. Mines is one of the few things that will stop a gorge gang.
- Vents. You can completely seal off vents with them, several vents also allow you to place them so that they are unreachable for gorge bilebombs meaning aliens *have* to get hit by them to go through.
- Lotto. Plant mines in odd places. Who knows, you might get a lerk/fade on the retreat. If not, at least it will annoy whichever skulk stepped on it.
- Cheap and fast short-term protection. You can drop it on or around a newly built PG that you don't have time to defend with other means, for example.
"I've played many times with you as commander Stoneburg and you very rarely drop mines, which tells me they don't have any significant use."
Which could also mean that the aliens on the other team are just using skulks/gorges/fades to trigger the mines, thus removing most of the gain. Mines are good but there's no point dropping them once the enemy knows about them.
"The so-called "Onos Trap" is a desparate move and I have never seen an Onos killed by one. I don't argue that it doesn't happen, just that it is very rare."
I've seen it happen constantly to unwary onos. Vicious marines can place exceptionally good traps at blind corners and catch even competent onos. I don't see how its a desperation move - I don't call putting up turrets at a choke point desperation either. IMHO its proper use of the proper tool.
"Why are you getting nasty Necrosis? I'm just suggesting that a weapon slot, since we all know they are limited, would be better spent with something that the Marines might actually find useful."
Not nasty, merely stating what could be the obvious solution. Grenades would be no more useful. Secondly, grenades by hand = no reload. Add "ammo spam" to that equation, and observe the chronic imbalancing effect. And again, the GL already fills that role.
"For all the proponents of mines, I see very few coms dropping them outside of desparte situations. You can't argue against that."
Yeah I can. I see comms using them frequently, especially in clever relocations where aliens are bottlenecked into a mine alley.
"The biggest insult for mines is the marine team gets no RFK for them."
Because you could just spam back and forward dropping huge amounts of mines. Most clever relocations could seriously exploit this, making it all but impossible for aliens to enter a base.
"They are a no return weapon."
Psychologically they're fantastic. Aliens slow their attack, skulks end up being used as minesweepers, and Onos can be destroyed in short order. I'd call a stalled alien offensive (as well as dead aliens) a significant return.
"Sentry guns give RFK and no one has to fire them, they do require somewhat of a knowledge of placement, but so do mines."
Mines are easier to place than sentries, and best of all ANYONE can drop mines. They're handy for a stopgap defence on a tfarm hole, or dropping around a PG in order to discourage biters. I can dodge turrets with ease, but its kind of hard to dodge a minecovered PG as a skulk.
"Besdies, what's wrong with the Marines having 1 or 2 hand grendades?"
Read above. They're already covered by the GL. The GL replaces the LMG and makes the marine vulnerable to skulk close assaults. Hand grenades would unfairly advantage marines.
IMHO you should take a while to learn how to love mines, rather than attack what (in your eyes) is a bad weapon thats taking up the slot that the precious grenades rightly deserve.
Stoneburg -
"Earlier I would drop a pack of mines, watch some random person pick them up, then spend 2 minutes going "No.. no no no, not there... no, I want ... stop, no DON'T put them by the armory... ok, here's a new pack now.. wait, don't run off..."."
Sadly all too true - that or the comm calling for one rine to put mines around the base, and then no rine actually following the order.
<!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
Never tested it cause i play only on pubs,but should work.
Example:
Entrance to marine start at tanith.
Or the entrance to refin hive at ns_bast (hangig "headdown" from the pipes above the ramp).
The entrances to the lower rt room at feedwater (again at the roof)
Simply everywhere a onos barely fits through or even has to crouch.
Btw ..mines are great to stop those hit and blink fades and deny vents to those pesky spore ****...