Build some defense chambers... LOTS of defense chambers... in research labs and in the tunnel on the other side.. thier area of effect will reach on that platform.. then get carapace...
This in no way will guarantee a win.. but might help you live longer than usual.. do the damage that is needed
<!--QuoteBegin--DeepShadows+Sep 29 2003, 08:39 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DeepShadows @ Sep 29 2003, 08:39 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Alright, here's the getup: TANITH. Everyone knows it yes? Well then, I'm playing on the alien team, and we get two hives, basically all the res, and destroy the marine base.
Of course, they relocate to the only other place they still have:
WASTE HANDLING
Fine, alright... they weld shut the vents, set up a base and all that. They have level 3 weapons mind you.
So, we plow in and out and in trying to kill them. They just camp around and kill us as we attempt to. They get one guy with a heavyarmor and hmg up by the res, and just mow anyone down.
Eventually we do take all the "lower side" stuff, and they move everything up onto the res platform.
Now, because of this, and all the stuff on the roof in the room, it's practically impossible for anything but a skulk or maybe a fade to get up there. However, for the most part no alien can get there. Any onos that try are killed before they can so much as cross the room. All the exits have low head roofs, so you have to duck to get out, which gets you basically stuck for them to kill.
They hold this position, with only one res, until every one of them has HA and a big gun. Then, they proceed to push a HA train into the west access corridor, cleaning out all defenses and planting a res. One or two freaking HA's remained behind to guard. One stood ontop of an armory, right in the middle of the platform. They owned anything that came in.
Eventually the marines went through the back of eclipse and took our hive.
And so on, so forth:
END GAME - MARINE VICTORY
...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> That sounds totally like the the game I wrote about from the marine perspective: <a href='http://www.gamesplace.net' target='_blank'>marine story</a>. Scary!
<!--QuoteBegin--SDJASON+Oct 1 2003, 12:53 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SDJASON @ Oct 1 2003, 12:53 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Build some defense chambers... LOTS of defense chambers... in research labs and in the tunnel on the other side.. thier area of effect will reach on that platform.. then get carapace...
This in no way will guarantee a win.. but might help you live longer than usual.. do the damage that is needed <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> siege.
<!--QuoteBegin--Majin+Sep 30 2003, 07:50 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Majin @ Sep 30 2003, 07:50 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Acid Rocket Hive 2 Problemed solved! Make it less powerful and make Hive 3 Meta alot stronger! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> hmmmm... back to the old acid spam - um no ta, see how many hive three fades you kill BECAUSE of acid rocket, its unbelievable - they get access to the rocket and dont use anything else, and i just have a thing about sticking to the background of things when playing, fade is about getting in close, slaughtering the little lambs, and moving on - i do use acid rocket, to attack a group of HA and strip their armour low, so i can blink up and cut off their extremities <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
The relocation should never of happened. this is when the marines are the most vaunerable, and if they are spotted moving out in mass, you can usually judge where they will end up going. At this point the entire alien team moves to intercept (you DON'T need to get res points straight away, if the marines are relocating) Nine of Ten relocations fail since 2.0, more victories come for those who stay in base and have phase gates <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Grimm+Sep 30 2003, 12:04 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Grimm @ Sep 30 2003, 12:04 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Learn from your experiences, plan ahead for next time. Drop plenty of OCs on the platform and in the hive area, as well as in the hallways leading to the hive, to prevent any marine movement into it. If they take it early on, assault it and take it down before they get most of their team in there.
Much of NS is dealing with experiences and learning to take them into consideration next time, and learning how to prevent specific situations from occurring. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> kinda hard if they relocate to waste eh?
I don't understand all of those who are saying things like: "The aliens just need to used teamwork in that situation, and if they don't, they deserver to lose."
How is it that if the aliens are good enough to totally control the map and confine the marine team to one res node in one location, they should have to be even better than that? THE ALIENS CAN DOMINATE THE MAP, BUT THEY HAVE NO END-GAME. That is the problem.
Marine equipment is obscenely cheap now, so they can fully equip a team of HA+weapons in 5 minutes on 1 res node. Meanwhile, what can the aliens do? Onos get annihilated before taking 5 steps, fades get blasted with 2 shotgun blasts, and even if they don't they can't do much. Nobody else can get close because of GL spam.
This is not just limited to tanith. This can be almost any map and any hive.
I have recently heard talk about the aliens having some equivalent to the marines' siege cannon. This is a good idea, but I have no idea what it could be. But no matter what, the aliens need to have SOME ability to force marines from just sitting in one location doing nothing but loading up on equipment.
<!--QuoteBegin--D.C. Darkling+Sep 30 2003, 02:18 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (D.C. Darkling @ Sep 30 2003, 02:18 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> A. let the onos stand just around to corner for a boring watch (cloaked) to eat any marine leaving B. attack with pure skulrush and fade rush. C. while useless skulks keep anything busy let lerks spike keypoints such as a tf or IP. D. let them have redemp or heal depending on the situation. E. keep pushing and enjoy victory. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> A. If you have sensory in this scenario youwill probably lose. MC+DC would be aproximately 50 times better.
B. Skulkrush a.k.a. "Let's give the com some extra res!". This is just dumb. The key is to get larger evolutions in there to take stuff out. If you die as onos but manage to kill 2 turrets = profit.
C. IP isn't a keypoint in this scenario, armory would be better.
D. Redemption is the main *cause* fo boring stalemates, not a way to end them.
<!--QuoteBegin--Stoneburg+Oct 1 2003, 12:08 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Stoneburg @ Oct 1 2003, 12:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--D.C. Darkling+Sep 30 2003, 02:18 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (D.C. Darkling @ Sep 30 2003, 02:18 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> A. let the onos stand just around to corner for a boring watch (cloaked) to eat any marine leaving B. attack with pure skulrush and fade rush. C. while useless skulks keep anything busy let lerks spike keypoints such as a tf or IP. D. let them have redemp or heal depending on the situation. E. keep pushing and enjoy victory. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> A. If you have sensory in this scenario youwill probably lose. MC+DC would be aproximately 50 times better.
B. Skulkrush a.k.a. "Let's give the com some extra res!". This is just dumb. The key is to get larger evolutions in there to take stuff out. If you die as onos but manage to kill 2 turrets = profit.
C. IP isn't a keypoint in this scenario, armory would be better.
D. Redemption is the main *cause* fo boring stalemates, not a way to end them.
E. Not with your advice. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> In regards to part C of your post.. i disagree that armory is better
Mass rush on the comm chair is best... if you get that down.. you WILL WIN eventually. since every small turret taken out is one less they CANNOT rebuild.. every HA destroyed they CANNOT replace.. and so on..
Mass rush the comm chair.. however this does not seem probable with the Waste setup on tanith... but on other farming situations its the best way to go\
Assuming they have 2 ip's, I'd rather take out the armory than an ip. Why might you ask? Unless this is gonna be the final rush, an armory will have much more of an effect on the battle. If it is either an advanced armory or in the process of being upgraded it will give them access to hmg/gl which will either kill or force an onos to retreat much faster than sg's. An ip can also be dropped and built quickly whereas an advanced armory takes time to upgrade and is more expensive to build.
SDJASON, you may not have noticed he said "Have lerk attack keypoints". Now... how long would it take for a lerk to take down a CC I ask you? <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
devicenullJoin Date: 2003-04-30Member: 15967Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
BioDome is easy to break. Skulk, regen, adren, cloaking Get to the top of a pillar and gorge. Then bilebomb down <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> Marines cant hit you enough without gls to kill you, unless they are smart, which usually dosent happen
as for waste, get 6 lerks to all spike on turret until it dies, move onto the next. You can do it from far enough away so the shotguns do minimal dmg. Then get 1lerk to umbra you Stack 6 lerks <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--emo&::lerk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/lerk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='lerk.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::lerk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/lerk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='lerk.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::lerk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/lerk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='lerk.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::lerk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/lerk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='lerk.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::lerk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/lerk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='lerk.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::lerk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/lerk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='lerk.gif'><!--endemo--> Throwing the hive up is a good distraction: Even better, get a sense chamber there, distarct the turrets and throw the hive up at the same time. Then dont use 3 hive abilities until you all get ready and unleash a massive acid/xeno/bile/spore attack on them <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
aw man that one location in waste gives me the hibbly jibbleys to talk about....there was this one game that was exactly like urs! they moved to that one area with 1 HA.....every1 was onos and died...giving them res....then pushed to cargo...then..ugh it sickens me to talk about!!!
<!--QuoteBegin--devicenull+Oct 1 2003, 11:31 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (devicenull @ Oct 1 2003, 11:31 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> BioDome is easy to break. Skulk, regen, adren, cloaking Get to the top of a pillar and gorge. Then bilebomb down ....
as for waste, get 6 lerks to all spike on turret until it dies, move onto the next. You can do it from far enough away so the shotguns do minimal dmg. Then get 1lerk to umbra you Stack 6 lerks <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Throwing the hive up is a good distraction: Even better, get a sense chamber there, distarct the turrets and throw the hive up at the same time. Then dont use 3 hive abilities until you all get ready and unleash a massive acid/xeno/bile/spore attack on them <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Your upgrades require *3* hives. Guess what biodome is. That's right, a hive location. And guess what else - most marine bases (not marine starts, marine bases) have observatories.
Lerks die to pistol fire fairly quickly, but even more quickly to grenades. Especially if they're all stacked.
Throwing up hives with siege nearby means aliens die from siege -- especially in waste where the exit is right by the hive.
Sense chamber means you either have 3 hives or you are missing some vital upgrades from movement/defense.
You can't use 3rd hive abilities without a 3rd hive. Both waste AND biodome ARE hives.
First off in the whole time NS has been around i thin kthis is the first tiem this has been brought up. Second, u see that gap inbetween the platform and the wall? Its there for lerks to umbra, spore or spike thru. If a Onos does its job and teams up with 2 or 3 lerks, they can VER Yeasily take down anything the marines can dish out at them.
This happens often, dont give them the chanvce to HA spam, build a farm nearby and crus hthem.
<!--QuoteBegin--Ahnteis+Oct 2 2003, 03:24 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ahnteis @ Oct 2 2003, 03:24 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--devicenull+Oct 1 2003, 11:31 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (devicenull @ Oct 1 2003, 11:31 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Throwing the hive up is a good distraction: Even better, get a sense chamber there, distarct the turrets and throw the hive up at the same time. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->Sense chamber means you either have 3 hives or you are missing some vital upgrades from movement/defense. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> But, in this case, wouldn't Sense be pretty vital to breaking the deadlock?
See, what bugs me isn't that you've attempted to rubbish a valid solution... it's that you, like many others, have fallen for the 'sensory is still pointless!' theories going around.
And you know what the REAL crazy thing is? It's a self-diminishing theory. The more people believe it, the more they believe the aliens won't use sensory (because anyone who chose sensory early would be stupid, what with it being so completely useless and all), which means they tend to build less obs, which means (wait for it) sensory is still effective, IF you have a gorge who knows how to use them. (Like, say, me.)
This happens less in clans, no doubt... but out on the pubs, sensory is extremely useful a lot of the time.
However, one cloaked alien detected= obs going up in a moment. And if there aren't enough players to shoot the hive to keep it uncloaked should you try that tactic, well, onos wouldn't have any problems with so few players.
<!--QuoteBegin--slayer111+Oct 2 2003, 12:24 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (slayer111 @ Oct 2 2003, 12:24 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Ahnteis+Oct 2 2003, 03:24 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ahnteis @ Oct 2 2003, 03:24 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--devicenull+Oct 1 2003, 11:31 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (devicenull @ Oct 1 2003, 11:31 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Throwing the hive up is a good distraction: Even better, get a sense chamber there, distarct the turrets and throw the hive up at the same time. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->Sense chamber means you either have 3 hives or you are missing some vital upgrades from movement/defense. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> But, in this case, wouldn't Sense be pretty vital to breaking the deadlock?
See, what bugs me isn't that you've attempted to rubbish a valid solution... it's that you, like many others, have fallen for the 'sensory is still pointless!' theories going around.
And you know what the REAL crazy thing is? It's a self-diminishing theory. The more people believe it, the more they believe the aliens won't use sensory (because anyone who chose sensory early would be stupid, what with it being so completely useless and all), which means they tend to build less obs, which means (wait for it) sensory is still effective, IF you have a gorge who knows how to use them. (Like, say, me.)
This happens less in clans, no doubt... but out on the pubs, sensory is extremely useful a lot of the time. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> You somehow skipped <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->most marine bases (not marine starts, marine bases) have observatories.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Most of the tme in pubs i have t oshout at the comm for 5 - 10 mins before he even SCANS an area that we have to take to kill a hive, let alone build one!
People say "you should have done this" and "you should have done that" but they forget if the marine team wants they cant get anywhere and there is no way to stop them. Thats because the aliens have to cover the whole map while the marines can group into packs of 10 and go to one hive at a time. THAT, is the main difference between the races. Aliens have to defend everywhere, marines have to assault 1 key location at a time. Before the alien team gets where the marines are, there is a PG, tf, siege, turrets and whatnot in there.
So stop saying "you have to play better than then at all times if you want to win". So that means if the marines play better just ONE TIME they deserve the win? Hell no. Most maps are badly designed for balance, because when they were made Onos was still an end game unit.
<!--QuoteBegin--Pjofsky+Oct 2 2003, 07:31 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Pjofsky @ Oct 2 2003, 07:31 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> However, I do find it silly that alien hives are more marine friendly than alien friendly. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> What do you suggest? How could they become less marine friendly without becoming confusing or vents?
<!--QuoteBegin--MrMojo+Oct 3 2003, 01:21 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MrMojo @ Oct 3 2003, 01:21 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> What do you suggest? How could they become less marine friendly without becoming confusing or vents? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> the main problem in these examples is that there are spots where it is extemely hard for an alien team to bring it's forces to bear against the marines. For example, low doorways that mean an onos must crouch-walk through or a resource nozzle that is not only on high ground but also has only 1 ladder leading to it with a clear field of fire all around.
lol yea when i was onos i was chasing and stalking a marine, and just as i was gonna kill him a got caught in a doorway which gave him a few precious second to get away! lol
If Marines are ever doing a strategy like this, this is what you have to do, trust me it works wonders.
1: Find a gorge with about 50+ res.
2: Make a keybind to build an OC.
3: Get everyone ready for a group rush (doesn't have to be everybody, but at least 3-4 ppl here.
4: Have one member of the group go in with the gorge behind him, he distracts their fire while the gorge drops OCs all over their caming point, they don't have to build, just drop them, trust me.
5: Everyone rushes in while the Marines are shooting at the OCs!
Results: Well one of two things happen, either the group rush crushes the marines, or the marines crush the group rush, but have wasted too much time and the OCs have now built themselves, making for an even better oppertunity to attack while they're distracted.
Basically the lesson here is, if marines are holding up in one place and firing at anything that moves, distract their fire! Works like a charm!
Only place heh. Here's some other nasty places that marines can relocate to pretty quick if they know what they are doing:
1) ns_nothing; Power Silo. Its just wrong. One marine with jp and you get 4 TF's up above were lerks tend to go to spore/umbra cover for onos as you try to take that hive. Then they get 4 turrets on the edge that make it so ANYTHING that goes in there gets cut to pieces with ease. Not to mention it has enough room for you to have your CC/PG/Arms/Armory/Ips/Proto/Obs so yay you get Jps for everyone if your PG goes down. It takes 2 hours to be able to take Power Silo when its held like this. Constant Spore attacks are needed. Constant Regen Celerity Skulks must suicide rush TF's and what not. Onos are useless as are gorges. 1 Marine with GL and JP up there and you NEVER can get in. Its totally unfair and if you go for JPs right away instead of some things and have a small farm ONLY in Powersilo and Marine start you cant lose. Thats just wrong.
2) ns_caged; Just outside Upper Sewers and the actual Sewer Hive is another one of those lovley corner platfoms like on Tanith. Onos must duck to get in from UpperSewers and you have a Hive locked with only 1 Siege being built. Onos can get in from Sewer Hive only to be cut to ribbons by 1 HMG and a few turrets unable to flee thanks to a ladder and a too-small tunnel. Only benifit is you can take out all their RTs but even then it'll be close and you wont be able to kill them easy at all. Only hope is to have 3 guys trying to get Sewer hive up the whole time and have skulks kill their siege the whole time or obs. Then Xeno rush. So its not as bad as Tanith but a PAIN of a last stand.
3) ns_lost; I really hate those platforms. You got 2 lovley places this time. One is Alpha Continum. They have 2 or 3 platforms in corners to play with. One faces a vent and another has an RT. Skulks/Lerks/Fades only like the Tanith but oh wait. They can have 2 farms in the same room on 2 diffrent platforms. You thought 1 was bad wait till you got 2 with 2 armories with the one closest to the entrance having an HMG and the other a GL. You'll wish you had kept that hive. Yet another 2+ hour endgame thanks to 10 turrets and some happy campers.
Alpha not your crib? Get a JP for one of your mairnes and relocate onto the crates on the platform in Cargo. Hive locked. You got 2 RTs really close. Not to mention that fades have a problem gettin to you as do skulks! Only gotta worry about spores but hey. 1 guy in HA with a GL can take care of that. Yet another 2 hr + endgame I have yet to see but I KNOW Im gonna try some day just cause I havent.
4) ns_hera; damn. they had to do it. I know of 4 great places no 5! Some need JPs but hey, who cares: Outside Marine Start. You can build a CC and an IP up there. Plant a few JPs on the IP and you get a quick little game of Blink as Fades and Skulks rush you and lerks spre and spike. But wait, you can fly across to this little part on the canyon wall where you can stand. Get yourself an HMG and have a comm gettin you meds and y ou can hold your one RT as well as your IP!
Cargo Bay. Build on the crates and behind the crates and even under the crates i think. Onos have trouble gettin in. Only good way for them is from marine start (just dont weld the door open) or from Holo. Get a farm in the 'control room' and by farm i mean 5 turrets and an HMG and you get another chance to hoard up to HA. Yippee!
Now how about Holo room? You'll need a JP but oh boy! You can build a bit ontop of the arches in Holoroom, usually reserved for SCs or my tactic, 4 ocs on each side. But now only fades and skulks can hurt you if you got an HMG/GL up there with you. PLUS 2 RTS this time! Harder to hold and build up but one of the better places, plus your close to TWO (2) hives for rushing!
Hera is a bit drab. How about that RT in processing up on the catwalks! Only one entracne and Onoses cant run away easy. Skulks can get in good, but when you got fun little turrets all over (total of 6 needed) an electrifed TF and RT you MIGHT lose one guy! Only gotta worry about fades, but hey thats what HMGs are for. Plus you can take out Data Core easy, then go up through to Archive. Just dont let those pesky skulks xenocide and beware of acid rockets. Easily a 1.5 hour last stand with possible comback.
Speaking of Data Core why not lock 2 Hives or atleast 1 with a short rush to end the other? Data Core is not easily accessible by Onos. Fades and Skulks will have more luck but oh wait. 10 turrets later and you dont even have to worry about that. Just need to worry about RTs. Well Im sure even a bad commander can figure a way to get just 1 RT out of the 10 on the map.
Like Archiving and want to keep Holo/Hera RTs open for the capping? Relocate to the room just outside of archiving. An elevator button later and you can have a nice little fort up above those Onoses where skulks and fades can get you, but not without dying a lot! Its almost as good as ns_tanith's Waste Handeling! You get a Hive and RT, but wait! You can weld through to Hera and get several RTs for the price of a HIVE! (Note to ALL marine commanders: Do NOT relocate to Hera EVER. It may seem like a good idea cause it was in 1.04, but I have never seen the marines win doing that against even the worst alien team. There are better ways to get Holoroom and keep it and I just named the better one that hinders aliens the most. Relocating to Hera = ZERO HIVE LOCK DOWN. Unless you lock down 2 hives right away your gonna have Onos on your locked hive faster than any celerity skulk or blinking fade).
And finally, one of my personal favorites. Ventilation Hive. You get yourself a Hive and an RT. And ifyou actually build in the RIGHT spot (ie UNDER THE HIVE) you dont need to worry about onos thanks to one marine and his gun plus 10+ turrets. Gorges can Bile Bomb it for about 2 shtos before the redempt. 3 if they die. Fades can get there and so can skulks. Build close to your electrified TF(s) and make sure to have 2. 1 by your IPs under the hvie and one by your electric RT up where the Aliens will be coming from.
5) Thought I was done? heh. thats funny. Ive only covered nothing/hera/caged/lost. We had Tanith covered. Well here's the next one. The ambigiously fun ns_mineshaft. You'd think mariens wouldnt have a good relocating location here. Dual res sucks for it. Tram isnt great. Neither is Drill for that matter. Or sewers. Where then? Why sleeping quarters! No hives locked and only 1 RT. Your in the middle of the map. You can have turrets up the ying yang and one GL keeps all Onos out that want to live. Eventually your whole team will have HA and HMGs at lvl 3. The Aliens will have xenociding skulks, but 1 or 2 GLs will keep them out. Fades might damage a turret but you can build on Bunkbeds and what not. It is an EASILY defendable place.
Dont like the barracks? Try Generator. Just outside tram and you got another little platform that you can make Onos-Proof. Only gotta worry about bilebombing gorges and xenociding skulks for a bit. Welder and GL. Thats the key to holding onto Mineshaft without extensive farming. Too many 2 hr + games come from these locations. They seem silly at first/after deep thought but if you actually try it and do it right with only around 10 turrets you'd be surprised what you can survive in those 2 locations against 3 hives.
6)ns_bast. The BANE of Marines everywhere. You stupid. Stupid **** commanders. You either go for Engine right away to relocate to or to Atmospheric. Shame on you. There are at LEAST 3 good places to relocate to.
First N cooridor. i wish i could onos there just cause I want to. Gettin 100 res isnt a problem sometimes. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> Anyways Its been done several times but your RIGHT by Atmos and a step away froma Hive. You got a room with a closed door as the only entry point to really worry about. 2 turrets by the one to atmos NOT BLOCKIGN IT FOR YOUR JPs/HAs and then for that one room just drop a few turrets. Say 10. Dont put a TF in there. And you should definatley put some in the vent leading to that room. No fades to worry about now. No skulks either. You just gotta sit back and wait for your 2 JPs to get the PG up in Atmos/Feed for your group of HA HMGs to go in and take. No RT? Come on now you all know how hard Atmos is to take from a small farm and 1 Marine. Or you should. God knows how many last stands take place in Atmos. That means 2 RTs for you in N cooridor.
Or how about the BEST hive period for Aliens EVER. Im not 100% sure but that catwalk thats in Refinery I think you can build on. You used to. Farm it up. That room that goes down into a RT? You can build in it too. Put 3 turrets by the vent going in and have 5 outside the room for onoses. You only need 1 marine to hold it and you can fit everything. PLUS you got 3 RTs unless your dumb, a Hive, and you can get to Engine pretty quick gettin you 2 more RTs and a 2nd Hive. Its a wonder Marines never try for Refinery more often in 2.0.
Want another one? The vents by feedwater from Atmospheric. There are SEVERAL places where you can build there, and you can siege the Feed Hive from one of them. That gets you 2 RTs (1 in Feed 1 just outside the siege point vent outside feed by Tram Tunnel) and 2 more if you take Atmos (not that hard) PLUS a 5th in Marine start if you go out the elevator shaft. You can JP rush Engine pretty easy and siege it locking it. I havent seen a last stand on it, just a short 40 minute game of Rape from sieges with us cowering in Refinery with no onos and 6 HA and 2 JPs sitting outside our last hive. But think about it. Fades are crouched inthere. Lerks cant run easy, and Skulks are just WEAK against a few turrets and a lvl 0 lmg. I'd say since no Onos problems you are dang near invincible there in those vents.
Finally the vent outside engine on the way to the elveator shaft by marine start. You can take that easy enough and relocate there locking Engine in the same way you have Feed locked. Same affect as the one above but you work in a diffrent order with less RTs. it works but might have been a fluke.
7) Ns_origin. Just wrong. So, so wrong. You can reloacte to cargo the double res place. Yay. No JPs required just mad jumpin skills. Your out of Onos reach. A few turrets (10-15 on each side) and you got 2 rts easy. Not to mention 2 hives a quick jog away. Thats 5 rts and 2 hives easily yours. Sucks to be alien to the marine team that pulls this off. You need skilled shooters as aliens go for dual first now.
Like the vent rats on bast? They're back on origin! There are numerous places in vents you dont need jps to get to that you can build up. About 6 or 7 actually. Look at the map and go explore as Alien. You'll be shocked. Some are my favorite hidey holes and some of the best places to put dcs out of the way for those marine start last stands. Which brings me to a fun point about the RT. Drop out of the vent after a few steps and you can be in Marine Start or just outside Cargo/laserdrilling. You can get all the way to Biodome by using the vents. Im glad no one has tried this yet on my server, but if aliens can build up there I KNOW marines can.
Like those platforms from other maps? You got them on this one too! Lock down Vent hive and get yourself an RT! You can build up on the cat walk where Onoses cant get you if you build your turrets right. Fades and Skulks can as usual but thats what HMGs are for! You got a hive and a vent leading STRAIGHT to another one with a nice room you can siege from. Isnt that special.
8) ns_eclipse. Wow. I know a fun place that my fellow hidey hole gorge loves to hide in. That vent under station access. Its such a nice little spot. You NEED jps or a GL incase a gorge gets in the top part and bile bombs half your base there, but you dont need to worry about onoses. Plus you got an RT on top.
If you like that try the vent in Powersubjuntion 3. Harder to do since you need JPs but you do get a Hive and 2 RTs if you do it right. Same issues as the one above but you get more. You can guess how long THIS one will take with just a few turrets set up to block skulks.
9) ns_tanith. You thought that platform was all? Tsk tsk. There are others. Harder to get to and you need to be good about RTs but they work. How about the vent between Fusion Reactor and Sat Comm Hive? You can fit stuff in there and make it a pain for skulks/fades with ease. PLUS a 2 Hive lock down with 1 easily gaurded RT and another 3 (Fusion/Cargo/Chem Trans) not to hard to defend ones. Thats always fun. yet to be done in 2.0 and only works if aliens HAVE waste at the start cause you gotta get to satcomm fast place an RT, have a marine or 2 help one marine get onto the RT then into vent and place a CC TF and IP. But hey, it has worked in 1.04 before.
There is a nice vent outside research labs that is usually reserved for sieging Waste. You lock a hive and get 2 semi-easy to defend RTs plus only skulks can get to you cause fades get stuck by the turrets you place by the vents. And skulks die fast. Ive NEVER seen marines lose to this. Most people f4 and that ends the game.
How about the vent between Chem Trans and Reactor Room? You got 2 places to build in actuallity. You got easy access to 3 RTs, 1 easier than the 2 in RR and no Hives locked but man those turrets can stop any fade/skulk with ease. Only got 1 vent to worry about that goes up and a single GL can take care of that. Ive seen this twice. Aliens won once after 3 hrs end game. No onoses. Just fades and xenorushing.
Shocked? Dont be I play NS way too much and with some pretty ingenius people. Half these ideas are mine though feel free to abuse them and make painfully long games for your own amusement. ALL TURRET FARM (eg 30 turrets and stuff you know) FREE. Only need 10 turrets for any of these. But more is alwasys better.
Comments
It's very similar to nerfing one side when it's simply a case of the other side being too weak.
This in no way will guarantee a win.. but might help you live longer than usual.. do the damage that is needed
Of course, they relocate to the only other place they still have:
WASTE HANDLING
Fine, alright... they weld shut the vents, set up a base and all that. They have level 3 weapons mind you.
So, we plow in and out and in trying to kill them. They just camp around and kill us as we attempt to. They get one guy with a heavyarmor and hmg up by the res, and just mow anyone down.
Eventually we do take all the "lower side" stuff, and they move everything up onto the res platform.
Now, because of this, and all the stuff on the roof in the room, it's practically impossible for anything but a skulk or maybe a fade to get up there. However, for the most part no alien can get there.
Any onos that try are killed before they can so much as cross the room. All the exits have low head roofs, so you have to duck to get out, which gets you basically stuck for them to kill.
They hold this position, with only one res, until every one of them has HA and a big gun. Then, they proceed to push a HA train into the west access corridor, cleaning out all defenses and planting a res.
One or two freaking HA's remained behind to guard. One stood ontop of an armory, right in the middle of the platform. They owned anything that came in.
Eventually the marines went through the back of eclipse and took our hive.
And so on, so forth:
END GAME - MARINE VICTORY
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That sounds totally like the the game I wrote about from the marine perspective: <a href='http://www.gamesplace.net' target='_blank'>marine story</a>. Scary!
-Lorn
This in no way will guarantee a win.. but might help you live longer than usual.. do the damage that is needed <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
siege.
Problemed solved!
Make it less powerful and make Hive 3 Meta alot stronger! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
hmmmm... back to the old acid spam - um no ta, see how many hive three fades you kill BECAUSE of acid rocket, its unbelievable - they get access to the rocket and dont use anything else, and i just have a thing about sticking to the background of things when playing, fade is about getting in close, slaughtering the little lambs, and moving on - i do use acid rocket, to attack a group of HA and strip their armour low, so i can blink up and cut off their extremities <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
The relocation should never of happened. this is when the marines are the most vaunerable, and if they are spotted moving out in mass, you can usually judge where they will end up going. At this point the entire alien team moves to intercept (you DON'T need to get res points straight away, if the marines are relocating)
Nine of Ten relocations fail since 2.0, more victories come for those who stay in base and have phase gates <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
Much of NS is dealing with experiences and learning to take them into consideration next time, and learning how to prevent specific situations from occurring. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
kinda hard if they relocate to waste eh?
How is it that if the aliens are good enough to totally control the map and confine the marine team to one res node in one location, they should have to be even better than that? THE ALIENS CAN DOMINATE THE MAP, BUT THEY HAVE NO END-GAME. That is the problem.
Marine equipment is obscenely cheap now, so they can fully equip a team of HA+weapons in 5 minutes on 1 res node. Meanwhile, what can the aliens do? Onos get annihilated before taking 5 steps, fades get blasted with 2 shotgun blasts, and even if they don't they can't do much. Nobody else can get close because of GL spam.
This is not just limited to tanith. This can be almost any map and any hive.
I have recently heard talk about the aliens having some equivalent to the marines' siege cannon. This is a good idea, but I have no idea what it could be. But no matter what, the aliens need to have SOME ability to force marines from just sitting in one location doing nothing but loading up on equipment.
B. attack with pure skulrush and fade rush.
C. while useless skulks keep anything busy let lerks spike keypoints such as a tf or IP.
D. let them have redemp or heal depending on the situation.
E. keep pushing and enjoy victory. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
A. If you have sensory in this scenario youwill probably lose. MC+DC would be aproximately 50 times better.
B. Skulkrush a.k.a. "Let's give the com some extra res!". This is just dumb. The key is to get larger evolutions in there to take stuff out. If you die as onos but manage to kill 2 turrets = profit.
C. IP isn't a keypoint in this scenario, armory would be better.
D. Redemption is the main *cause* fo boring stalemates, not a way to end them.
E. Not with your advice.
Redroom on nothing comes to mind.
B. attack with pure skulrush and fade rush.
C. while useless skulks keep anything busy let lerks spike keypoints such as a tf or IP.
D. let them have redemp or heal depending on the situation.
E. keep pushing and enjoy victory. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
A. If you have sensory in this scenario youwill probably lose. MC+DC would be aproximately 50 times better.
B. Skulkrush a.k.a. "Let's give the com some extra res!". This is just dumb. The key is to get larger evolutions in there to take stuff out. If you die as onos but manage to kill 2 turrets = profit.
C. IP isn't a keypoint in this scenario, armory would be better.
D. Redemption is the main *cause* fo boring stalemates, not a way to end them.
E. Not with your advice. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
In regards to part C of your post.. i disagree that armory is better
Mass rush on the comm chair is best... if you get that down.. you WILL WIN eventually. since every small turret taken out is one less they CANNOT rebuild.. every HA destroyed they CANNOT replace.. and so on..
Mass rush the comm chair.. however this does not seem probable with the Waste setup on tanith... but on other farming situations its the best way to go\
~Jason
Skulk, regen, adren, cloaking
Get to the top of a pillar and gorge.
Then bilebomb down
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Marines cant hit you enough without gls to kill you, unless they are smart, which usually dosent happen
as for waste, get 6 lerks to all spike on turret until it dies, move onto the next.
You can do it from far enough away so the shotguns do minimal dmg.
Then get 1lerk to umbra you
Stack 6 lerks <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
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Throwing the hive up is a good distraction:
Even better, get a sense chamber there, distarct the turrets and throw the hive up at the same time.
Then dont use 3 hive abilities until you all get ready and unleash a massive acid/xeno/bile/spore attack on them <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Skulk, regen, adren, cloaking
Get to the top of a pillar and gorge.
Then bilebomb down
....
as for waste, get 6 lerks to all spike on turret until it dies, move onto the next.
You can do it from far enough away so the shotguns do minimal dmg.
Then get 1lerk to umbra you
Stack 6 lerks <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Throwing the hive up is a good distraction:
Even better, get a sense chamber there, distarct the turrets and throw the hive up at the same time.
Then dont use 3 hive abilities until you all get ready and unleash a massive acid/xeno/bile/spore attack on them <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Your upgrades require *3* hives. Guess what biodome is. That's right, a hive location. And guess what else - most marine bases (not marine starts, marine bases) have observatories.
Lerks die to pistol fire fairly quickly, but even more quickly to grenades. Especially if they're all stacked.
Throwing up hives with siege nearby means aliens die from siege -- especially in waste where the exit is right by the hive.
Sense chamber means you either have 3 hives or you are missing some vital upgrades from movement/defense.
You can't use 3rd hive abilities without a 3rd hive. Both waste AND biodome ARE hives.
This happens often, dont give them the chanvce to HA spam, build a farm nearby and crus hthem.
Even better, get a sense chamber there, distarct the turrets and throw the hive up at the same time. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->Sense chamber means you either have 3 hives or you are missing some vital upgrades from movement/defense. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
But, in this case, wouldn't Sense be pretty vital to breaking the deadlock?
See, what bugs me isn't that you've attempted to rubbish a valid solution... it's that you, like many others, have fallen for the 'sensory is still pointless!' theories going around.
And you know what the REAL crazy thing is? It's a self-diminishing theory. The more people believe it, the more they believe the aliens won't use sensory (because anyone who chose sensory early would be stupid, what with it being so completely useless and all), which means they tend to build less obs, which means (wait for it) sensory is still effective, IF you have a gorge who knows how to use them. (Like, say, me.)
This happens less in clans, no doubt... but out on the pubs, sensory is extremely useful a lot of the time.
Even better, get a sense chamber there, distarct the turrets and throw the hive up at the same time. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->Sense chamber means you either have 3 hives or you are missing some vital upgrades from movement/defense. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
But, in this case, wouldn't Sense be pretty vital to breaking the deadlock?
See, what bugs me isn't that you've attempted to rubbish a valid solution... it's that you, like many others, have fallen for the 'sensory is still pointless!' theories going around.
And you know what the REAL crazy thing is? It's a self-diminishing theory. The more people believe it, the more they believe the aliens won't use sensory (because anyone who chose sensory early would be stupid, what with it being so completely useless and all), which means they tend to build less obs, which means (wait for it) sensory is still effective, IF you have a gorge who knows how to use them. (Like, say, me.)
This happens less in clans, no doubt... but out on the pubs, sensory is extremely useful a lot of the time. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
You somehow skipped
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->most marine bases (not marine starts, marine bases) have observatories.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Which completely negates cloaking.
Well, they're Marine ships, aren't they?
So stop saying "you have to play better than then at all times if you want to win". So that means if the marines play better just ONE TIME they deserve the win? Hell no. Most maps are badly designed for balance, because when they were made Onos was still an end game unit.
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What do you suggest? How could they become less marine friendly without becoming confusing or vents?
the main problem in these examples is that there are spots where it is extemely hard for an alien team to bring it's forces to bear against the marines. For example, low doorways that mean an onos must crouch-walk through or a resource nozzle that is not only on high ground but also has only 1 ladder leading to it with a clear field of fire all around.
I've done this a few times
1: Find a gorge with about 50+ res.
2: Make a keybind to build an OC.
3: Get everyone ready for a group rush (doesn't have to be everybody, but at least 3-4 ppl here.
4: Have one member of the group go in with the gorge behind him, he distracts their fire while the gorge drops OCs all over their caming point, they don't have to build, just drop them, trust me.
5: Everyone rushes in while the Marines are shooting at the OCs!
Results: Well one of two things happen, either the group rush crushes the marines, or the marines crush the group rush, but have wasted too much time and the OCs have now built themselves, making for an even better oppertunity to attack while they're distracted.
Basically the lesson here is, if marines are holding up in one place and firing at anything that moves, distract their fire! Works like a charm!
1) ns_nothing; Power Silo. Its just wrong. One marine with jp and you get 4 TF's up above were lerks tend to go to spore/umbra cover for onos as you try to take that hive. Then they get 4 turrets on the edge that make it so ANYTHING that goes in there gets cut to pieces with ease. Not to mention it has enough room for you to have your CC/PG/Arms/Armory/Ips/Proto/Obs so yay you get Jps for everyone if your PG goes down. It takes 2 hours to be able to take Power Silo when its held like this. Constant Spore attacks are needed. Constant Regen Celerity Skulks must suicide rush TF's and what not. Onos are useless as are gorges. 1 Marine with GL and JP up there and you NEVER can get in. Its totally unfair and if you go for JPs right away instead of some things and have a small farm ONLY in Powersilo and Marine start you cant lose. Thats just wrong.
2) ns_caged; Just outside Upper Sewers and the actual Sewer Hive is another one of those lovley corner platfoms like on Tanith. Onos must duck to get in from UpperSewers and you have a Hive locked with only 1 Siege being built. Onos can get in from Sewer Hive only to be cut to ribbons by 1 HMG and a few turrets unable to flee thanks to a ladder and a too-small tunnel. Only benifit is you can take out all their RTs but even then it'll be close and you wont be able to kill them easy at all. Only hope is to have 3 guys trying to get Sewer hive up the whole time and have skulks kill their siege the whole time or obs. Then Xeno rush. So its not as bad as Tanith but a PAIN of a last stand.
3) ns_lost; I really hate those platforms. You got 2 lovley places this time. One is Alpha Continum. They have 2 or 3 platforms in corners to play with. One faces a vent and another has an RT. Skulks/Lerks/Fades only like the Tanith but oh wait. They can have 2 farms in the same room on 2 diffrent platforms. You thought 1 was bad wait till you got 2 with 2 armories with the one closest to the entrance having an HMG and the other a GL. You'll wish you had kept that hive. Yet another 2+ hour endgame thanks to 10 turrets and some happy campers.
Alpha not your crib? Get a JP for one of your mairnes and relocate onto the crates on the platform in Cargo. Hive locked. You got 2 RTs really close. Not to mention that fades have a problem gettin to you as do skulks! Only gotta worry about spores but hey. 1 guy in HA with a GL can take care of that. Yet another 2 hr + endgame I have yet to see but I KNOW Im gonna try some day just cause I havent.
4) ns_hera; damn. they had to do it. I know of 4 great places no 5! Some need JPs but hey, who cares:
Outside Marine Start. You can build a CC and an IP up there. Plant a few JPs on the IP and you get a quick little game of Blink as Fades and Skulks rush you and lerks spre and spike. But wait, you can fly across to this little part on the canyon wall where you can stand. Get yourself an HMG and have a comm gettin you meds and y ou can hold your one RT as well as your IP!
Cargo Bay. Build on the crates and behind the crates and even under the crates i think. Onos have trouble gettin in. Only good way for them is from marine start (just dont weld the door open) or from Holo. Get a farm in the 'control room' and by farm i mean 5 turrets and an HMG and you get another chance to hoard up to HA. Yippee!
Now how about Holo room? You'll need a JP but oh boy! You can build a bit ontop of the arches in Holoroom, usually reserved for SCs or my tactic, 4 ocs on each side. But now only fades and skulks can hurt you if you got an HMG/GL up there with you. PLUS 2 RTS this time! Harder to hold and build up but one of the better places, plus your close to TWO (2) hives for rushing!
Hera is a bit drab. How about that RT in processing up on the catwalks! Only one entracne and Onoses cant run away easy. Skulks can get in good, but when you got fun little turrets all over (total of 6 needed) an electrifed TF and RT you MIGHT lose one guy! Only gotta worry about fades, but hey thats what HMGs are for. Plus you can take out Data Core easy, then go up through to Archive. Just dont let those pesky skulks xenocide and beware of acid rockets. Easily a 1.5 hour last stand with possible comback.
Speaking of Data Core why not lock 2 Hives or atleast 1 with a short rush to end the other? Data Core is not easily accessible by Onos. Fades and Skulks will have more luck but oh wait. 10 turrets later and you dont even have to worry about that. Just need to worry about RTs. Well Im sure even a bad commander can figure a way to get just 1 RT out of the 10 on the map.
Like Archiving and want to keep Holo/Hera RTs open for the capping? Relocate to the room just outside of archiving. An elevator button later and you can have a nice little fort up above those Onoses where skulks and fades can get you, but not without dying a lot! Its almost as good as ns_tanith's Waste Handeling! You get a Hive and RT, but wait! You can weld through to Hera and get several RTs for the price of a HIVE! (Note to ALL marine commanders: Do NOT relocate to Hera EVER. It may seem like a good idea cause it was in 1.04, but I have never seen the marines win doing that against even the worst alien team. There are better ways to get Holoroom and keep it and I just named the better one that hinders aliens the most. Relocating to Hera = ZERO HIVE LOCK DOWN. Unless you lock down 2 hives right away your gonna have Onos on your locked hive faster than any celerity skulk or blinking fade).
And finally, one of my personal favorites. Ventilation Hive. You get yourself a Hive and an RT. And ifyou actually build in the RIGHT spot (ie UNDER THE HIVE) you dont need to worry about onos thanks to one marine and his gun plus 10+ turrets. Gorges can Bile Bomb it for about 2 shtos before the redempt. 3 if they die. Fades can get there and so can skulks. Build close to your electrified TF(s) and make sure to have 2. 1 by your IPs under the hvie and one by your electric RT up where the Aliens will be coming from.
5) Thought I was done? heh. thats funny. Ive only covered nothing/hera/caged/lost. We had Tanith covered. Well here's the next one. The ambigiously fun ns_mineshaft. You'd think mariens wouldnt have a good relocating location here. Dual res sucks for it. Tram isnt great. Neither is Drill for that matter. Or sewers. Where then? Why sleeping quarters! No hives locked and only 1 RT. Your in the middle of the map. You can have turrets up the ying yang and one GL keeps all Onos out that want to live. Eventually your whole team will have HA and HMGs at lvl 3. The Aliens will have xenociding skulks, but 1 or 2 GLs will keep them out. Fades might damage a turret but you can build on Bunkbeds and what not. It is an EASILY defendable place.
Dont like the barracks? Try Generator. Just outside tram and you got another little platform that you can make Onos-Proof. Only gotta worry about bilebombing gorges and xenociding skulks for a bit. Welder and GL. Thats the key to holding onto Mineshaft without extensive farming. Too many 2 hr + games come from these locations. They seem silly at first/after deep thought but if you actually try it and do it right with only around 10 turrets you'd be surprised what you can survive in those 2 locations against 3 hives.
6)ns_bast. The BANE of Marines everywhere. You stupid. Stupid **** commanders. You either go for Engine right away to relocate to or to Atmospheric. Shame on you. There are at LEAST 3 good places to relocate to.
First N cooridor. i wish i could onos there just cause I want to. Gettin 100 res isnt a problem sometimes. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> Anyways Its been done several times but your RIGHT by Atmos and a step away froma Hive. You got a room with a closed door as the only entry point to really worry about. 2 turrets by the one to atmos NOT BLOCKIGN IT FOR YOUR JPs/HAs and then for that one room just drop a few turrets. Say 10. Dont put a TF in there. And you should definatley put some in the vent leading to that room. No fades to worry about now. No skulks either. You just gotta sit back and wait for your 2 JPs to get the PG up in Atmos/Feed for your group of HA HMGs to go in and take. No RT? Come on now you all know how hard Atmos is to take from a small farm and 1 Marine. Or you should. God knows how many last stands take place in Atmos. That means 2 RTs for you in N cooridor.
Or how about the BEST hive period for Aliens EVER. Im not 100% sure but that catwalk thats in Refinery I think you can build on. You used to. Farm it up. That room that goes down into a RT? You can build in it too. Put 3 turrets by the vent going in and have 5 outside the room for onoses. You only need 1 marine to hold it and you can fit everything. PLUS you got 3 RTs unless your dumb, a Hive, and you can get to Engine pretty quick gettin you 2 more RTs and a 2nd Hive. Its a wonder Marines never try for Refinery more often in 2.0.
Want another one? The vents by feedwater from Atmospheric. There are SEVERAL places where you can build there, and you can siege the Feed Hive from one of them. That gets you 2 RTs (1 in Feed 1 just outside the siege point vent outside feed by Tram Tunnel) and 2 more if you take Atmos (not that hard) PLUS a 5th in Marine start if you go out the elevator shaft. You can JP rush Engine pretty easy and siege it locking it. I havent seen a last stand on it, just a short 40 minute game of Rape from sieges with us cowering in Refinery with no onos and 6 HA and 2 JPs sitting outside our last hive. But think about it. Fades are crouched inthere. Lerks cant run easy, and Skulks are just WEAK against a few turrets and a lvl 0 lmg. I'd say since no Onos problems you are dang near invincible there in those vents.
Finally the vent outside engine on the way to the elveator shaft by marine start. You can take that easy enough and relocate there locking Engine in the same way you have Feed locked. Same affect as the one above but you work in a diffrent order with less RTs. it works but might have been a fluke.
7) Ns_origin. Just wrong. So, so wrong. You can reloacte to cargo the double res place. Yay. No JPs required just mad jumpin skills. Your out of Onos reach. A few turrets (10-15 on each side) and you got 2 rts easy. Not to mention 2 hives a quick jog away. Thats 5 rts and 2 hives easily yours. Sucks to be alien to the marine team that pulls this off. You need skilled shooters as aliens go for dual first now.
Like the vent rats on bast? They're back on origin! There are numerous places in vents you dont need jps to get to that you can build up. About 6 or 7 actually. Look at the map and go explore as Alien. You'll be shocked. Some are my favorite hidey holes and some of the best places to put dcs out of the way for those marine start last stands. Which brings me to a fun point about the RT. Drop out of the vent after a few steps and you can be in Marine Start or just outside Cargo/laserdrilling. You can get all the way to Biodome by using the vents. Im glad no one has tried this yet on my server, but if aliens can build up there I KNOW marines can.
Like those platforms from other maps? You got them on this one too! Lock down Vent hive and get yourself an RT! You can build up on the cat walk where Onoses cant get you if you build your turrets right. Fades and Skulks can as usual but thats what HMGs are for! You got a hive and a vent leading STRAIGHT to another one with a nice room you can siege from. Isnt that special.
8) ns_eclipse. Wow. I know a fun place that my fellow hidey hole gorge loves to hide in. That vent under station access. Its such a nice little spot. You NEED jps or a GL incase a gorge gets in the top part and bile bombs half your base there, but you dont need to worry about onoses. Plus you got an RT on top.
If you like that try the vent in Powersubjuntion 3. Harder to do since you need JPs but you do get a Hive and 2 RTs if you do it right. Same issues as the one above but you get more. You can guess how long THIS one will take with just a few turrets set up to block skulks.
9) ns_tanith. You thought that platform was all? Tsk tsk. There are others. Harder to get to and you need to be good about RTs but they work. How about the vent between Fusion Reactor and Sat Comm Hive? You can fit stuff in there and make it a pain for skulks/fades with ease. PLUS a 2 Hive lock down with 1 easily gaurded RT and another 3 (Fusion/Cargo/Chem Trans) not to hard to defend ones. Thats always fun. yet to be done in 2.0 and only works if aliens HAVE waste at the start cause you gotta get to satcomm fast place an RT, have a marine or 2 help one marine get onto the RT then into vent and place a CC TF and IP. But hey, it has worked in 1.04 before.
There is a nice vent outside research labs that is usually reserved for sieging Waste. You lock a hive and get 2 semi-easy to defend RTs plus only skulks can get to you cause fades get stuck by the turrets you place by the vents. And skulks die fast. Ive NEVER seen marines lose to this. Most people f4 and that ends the game.
How about the vent between Chem Trans and Reactor Room? You got 2 places to build in actuallity. You got easy access to 3 RTs, 1 easier than the 2 in RR and no Hives locked but man those turrets can stop any fade/skulk with ease. Only got 1 vent to worry about that goes up and a single GL can take care of that. Ive seen this twice. Aliens won once after 3 hrs end game. No onoses. Just fades and xenorushing.
Shocked? Dont be I play NS way too much and with some pretty ingenius people. Half these ideas are mine though feel free to abuse them and make painfully long games for your own amusement. ALL TURRET FARM (eg 30 turrets and stuff you know) FREE. Only need 10 turrets for any of these. But more is alwasys better.
Oh and Most of these Ive seen in use. Comments?
-Red