Great Commander Strategy
Fang-CE
Join Date: 2003-01-06 Member: 11946Members
Join Date: 2003-01-06 Member: 11946Members
<div class="IPBDescription">How I won even as my first time as comm.</div> Here's a few tips for new comms on pubs, I have yet to lose on pubs with this strategy:
Electricity is your best friend. Avoid sentry guns like the plague. One electrified tf is 100x better than 4 sentry guns around it.
Quick initial build order: One IP, Electrified TF Right next to it (all buildings should be clustered in the tf electric field) one Armory. Then order marines to grab res nodes, anywhere, doesnt matter where. You want a minimum of 5 electrified res nodes. Once a node is built, electrify it IMMEDIATELY.
Then I do or (when I have the res):
Arms Lab
Weapons upgrade
Observatory
Motion tracking
2nd Weapons
Advanced Armory (This takes forever)
Phase Tech
Armor Upgrade
3rd Weapons
Lot's o' HMG's
2nd Armor
Proto Lab
JP's if you have expert players, HA's if not
3rd Armor
Other buildings:
Drop a phase gate next to an electrified res node in a hive (you should at least have one node in a hive for the phase). The phase gate in your base should be in the tf electric field. Have marines phase back in if the aliens attack your base.
If you want to siege something, drop a tf first, electrify it, then drop a second tf RIGHT next to it. No sentries are needed.
Note: no where did I say I would build sentry guns. They are a waste of resources compared to electricity. There are only very specific cases where sentries are useful, and it's far FAR less than most commanders realize. Before criticizing this strategy, try electric node rushing and see how much extra res you have laying around.
Special thanks to bt|-Delwark for taking an hour on spectate with me instructing me on this strategy. This is before I ever went comm in 2.0x. But I've never seen him lose as comm in 2.01e+ with a similar strategy.
Electricity is your best friend. Avoid sentry guns like the plague. One electrified tf is 100x better than 4 sentry guns around it.
Quick initial build order: One IP, Electrified TF Right next to it (all buildings should be clustered in the tf electric field) one Armory. Then order marines to grab res nodes, anywhere, doesnt matter where. You want a minimum of 5 electrified res nodes. Once a node is built, electrify it IMMEDIATELY.
Then I do or (when I have the res):
Arms Lab
Weapons upgrade
Observatory
Motion tracking
2nd Weapons
Advanced Armory (This takes forever)
Phase Tech
Armor Upgrade
3rd Weapons
Lot's o' HMG's
2nd Armor
Proto Lab
JP's if you have expert players, HA's if not
3rd Armor
Other buildings:
Drop a phase gate next to an electrified res node in a hive (you should at least have one node in a hive for the phase). The phase gate in your base should be in the tf electric field. Have marines phase back in if the aliens attack your base.
If you want to siege something, drop a tf first, electrify it, then drop a second tf RIGHT next to it. No sentries are needed.
Note: no where did I say I would build sentry guns. They are a waste of resources compared to electricity. There are only very specific cases where sentries are useful, and it's far FAR less than most commanders realize. Before criticizing this strategy, try electric node rushing and see how much extra res you have laying around.
Special thanks to bt|-Delwark for taking an hour on spectate with me instructing me on this strategy. This is before I ever went comm in 2.0x. But I've never seen him lose as comm in 2.01e+ with a similar strategy.
Comments
That wouldn't be a bad idea intself, but it going to be a huge drain on ressources. And on pubs, getting marines to go and cap nodes is already a huge feet. <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo-->
Also, once you build those three buildings (ip, tf, armory), there's nothing left for the marines to do except go grab res nodes and kill alien nodes. <- this is the key to winning. NS is designed to be a battle for resnodes. Once electrified, your marines can go eliminate the aliens' nodes so onos can be held off for a long time. Your marines aren't wasting critical opening time building sentries in base.
But if u dont use chokepoints/lockdowns its okaaay.
Until the second hive is up...........
But if it's still up in the air, I can't afford to waste that res which I'd rather spend on upgrades, mt, phase, and hmg's, especially when electricity is now so powerful.
Also, when electric node rushing and not wasting your marines time building sentries, you'll be pushing hard on their second hive by the time it gets finished, and most of your rines will be sporting hmg's with mt.
I'm telling you, try the strat, and see how much you like it. As long as your marines can hit the side of a barn, you should be swimming in res.
/me shrugs. It's a perception that electrifying is a huge drain on resources. But sentries or having your nodes constantly chomped down by two skulks is a much larger drain. Electric nodes means that they usually can't be killed until aliens get a second hive/fade. By this time, you're swimming in the res, and can afford all the upgrades, loads of hmg's, etc.
Oh, and think about your statement again: "Any strat can work with the right people..." uh huh. So if you get a team of aimbotters whose comm decides to go with a strategy of sentry farm in base + sentry farm in another single res node area (such as horseshoe), with no expenditures on upgrades since he's spending it on rebuilding sentries. That should work against 3 hive, 7 res nodes, onos?
You guys haven't adapted to the latest release of NS, where electricity is cheap, fast, and very effective. Oh, and an easy command to give marines is "Go get me res nodes, anywhere, just get them." No waypoints are needed. It works really well on pubs, try it.
One important thing:
GET ARMOR LEVEL 1 FIRST! Don't get weapons upgrades first! Ever! Armor 1 lets you survive an extra bite (or slash), a 50% health increase. Weapons 1 lets you kill skulks with one less bullet.
Also, researching level two weapons before level one armor is stupid. It hardly makes a difference against the lower life forms like skulks. You should always get level one armor before anything else. It makes a huge difference in the life span of your marines.
Conversely, the revenue from having marines just guard the node for a bit and have packs of skulks try to clear them out (If you build it... they will come) outweighs the massive expenditure on defence. Just about everything you spend on meds there will be 100% profit and you'll get more res from it. This does require marines that can shoot though....
Also, researching level two weapons before level one armor is stupid. It hardly makes a difference against the lower life forms like skulks. You should always get level one armor before anything else. It makes a huge difference in the life span of your marines. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, fades are deadly, and so are onos which will eventually come. But what this strategy is trying to accomplish is a 6 vs 2 res nodes situation. If you can grab 6 res nodes and electrify them, the aliens can't take them out until they finally get a hive up or have someone go fade. When they only have 2 res nodes, that will take a long long time. Once those 6 are electrified, your marines don't have to baby sit them and can push hard on the alien hives/nodes. Usually, the node in the middle of the confrontation will stay unbuilt, which gives you a 6vs2 situation. By the time they finally get fades (or even onos) off of those 2 res nodes, you should have level 3 weapons with lots of hmg's to spare. Also, by the time they get fades and you have most of your upgrades, you really only need 2-3 nodes to keep your men equipped with hmg's, but you do have to be careful with your spending (no wasting HA's, but weapons can be picked up, etc.) So I'm just pointing out that what you are used to in getting a fade under 4 minutes is because the marines you are fighting aren't electric res node rushing you. If they do that, it will be closer to 12 minutes before you get a fade.
Level two weapons before level one armor is stupid, unless you get MT and hmg's. A few extra dead marines won't matter too much with electrified phase gates providing quick reinforcements. It's the same reason why requesting a medpack in base is dumb, when you can just "/kill" and spawn with full health. You can afford to have your lone defender die, when all he's trying to defend is an electrified building.
I probably agree with you, but do us a favour will ya please and enlighten us ? <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
He did say on pubs BTW, not in clan games.
Admittedly, most of this probably <b>will</b> work in a pub game. However, going against a strong organised alien team - If the only way you can hold onto nodes is to turret or electrify them all, then you've already lost.
Serious games are decided early, what you do in the opening few minutes will result in one team or the other gaining a substancial advantage, which they will then leverage to secure the game. Marine strategies like trying to turret farm the whole map, relocating to 1 hive and digging in, or electrifying node after node take advantage of the fact that on a public server, the other team are unlikely to ever make a good organised offensive against you. You're relying on the other team being at least marginally incompetant.
At 45 res a piece (Thats equivalent to 2 level 1 upgrades or a shotgun rush), electric nodes will not pay for themselves untill a substancial period into the game. You're investing alot early game, for the hope of later game payoff. In a public server where alien teams are slow, inefficient and unorganised this might be a worthwhile trade. In an organised match, trying to electrify 6 resource nodes at the start of the game will cripple you. All your resources and efforts are going into nodes and node defence, but you'll be losing ground and map control before you've even finished dropping those 6, infact i doubt you'd ever come close to getting 6 down on a map. Your concept of time is screwed.
An alien team that drops 2/3 nodes at the start of the game, with the rest of the team saving, will have fades and a second hive going up by the 3/4 minute mark at latest. By this time, even assuming you got your electric nodes down very early in the match, you will have made no sizable profit on those nodes. In otherwords, the resources you have to play with at this crucial point in time, will be no more than you would have had if you had simply dropped 0 nodes, and saved off your starting res.
Sure a few minutes down the line you may have plenty of resources, but an organised team isnt going to wait till a few minutes down the line. They're going to hit you as soon as they have a decisive advantage. You are sacrificing early game strength, in the form of upgrades / shotguns / medspam, perhaps early HMGs, for an improved resource flow a few minutes later assuming your nodes actually stay up. Well, in that 3-6 minute early game period, losing a few electric nodes can be considered 'getting off lightly'.
3-4 minutes in, you've done little to harm the alien team because you have no early weapons or upgrades, you've dropped several nodes and electrified them so they are yet to turn a profit. Fades appear here, and if you have minimal weapons/upgrades at this point you will immediately lose all map control. You will be pushed back to your base, and assuming you aren't simply killed straight off, you will not be in a position to prevent a second hive, or defend your electric nodes which are now easy for fades to kill. You've lost the game at that point, because your early game was too weak.
The reason you get away with it on a pub, is because alien teams do not have the desire/ability or organisation to press their advantages when they have them.
If you want a chance of beating a serious alien team, you can't afford to waste time or resources early on. You drop plain nodes, because that is the only way you'll generate a profit early enough to be useful, and you 'defend' them, by pushing offensively, holding key points, pressuring and generally controlling space on the map. You control space on the map with early upgrades, and you use your control and early game strength to keep alien nodes down. You may never hold more than 2-3 nodes at a time, and you will almost certainly lose 1 or 2, but as long as you're turning an early game profit, and keeping alien nodes down you're doing ok. You delay the fades and the hive in this way, and you additionally try to delay the hive by controlling space around the most likely 2nd hive spot. With weapons, upgrades and a strong presence on the map, you're taking hold of the game from the start. Being offensive in this way is the only way you'll have a chance of beating a serious team, and if you aren't able to prevent early fades, at least with weapons and upgrades you are in a far better position to deal with them.
What you said is right though. As the leader of a just over a month old clan, we're learning the hard way ATM <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
Sure, against a disorganized and uninformed alien team you will tech faster than them. But as has been said, people are figuring out that a gorge and one oc can take down an electrified node easily, and furthermore that gorge can then hold that node against 2 marines. OCs are cheaper than electricity and have a greater range too.
Try doing a sort of siege rush. Drop an ip armory and arms at the start; cap a bit (note, you can't elec, no tf) and use the time it takes to cap to figure out what sort of alien team you're playing against. If they're proactive and take down your nodes a lot then figure out where you want to siege from and send the majority of your guys in the opposite direction for a minute. Drop an obs; get phase tech and a 2nd ip. Send a couple of your most judicial marines to your siege spot and phase rush it to get more guys there. Siege quickly, don't waste time on turrets. If you have money send as many packs of mines and shotguns as you can through. This should take about three resource nodes.
Anyways, why Weapons 2 before even getting armor 1? Weapons 1 only lets you use one less bullet to get a kill, while armor gives you a whole 50% increase in effectivness vs skulks.
The use of electricity as base defence is key, but not the only thing...nothing/powersilo is the ultimate example...good luck trying to hold something there with el.
The problem with comming in public is to organize the team and keep the pressure on the aliens , ALWAYS. If they decide to take out your RTs instead of helping to defend the hive, they loose cause you kill the hive, if they dont, you keep getting res and uppgrades, while they are stuck with few RTs and alot of basedefence instead of higher forms and hives...
Any COM going weapons first gets an "Incompetent" stamp on his forehead. Anyone going weapons2 before armor1 get's a "Has no idea what he is doing" certificate that will give you 1 free beating from aliens on any server.
IF aliens go M/S first *and* aliens have no teamwork, the electrify node strategy will work. So yes, this strategy has a decent success rate on random pubs but that goes for ANY strategy. ANY Marine team that actually HAS a plan have a good chance of winning on a random pub, no matter what the plan is.
I've done this exact strat on a pub server with these people. It crushes.
I've also played on the same server with a stong alien team and we had a 90 minute game that was tense as hell the entire time. We lost FOUR hives, but still managed to come out on top.
Now this is for pub games, but I'm sure most people here play only pub.
Also, one advice, if your marines have been running on way and are getting killed, go out the other way. Example, on Hera everyone runs to reception instead of Maint and Vent hive which is usually forgotten about.
Gariig
Like no beginning armory to force the newbies to get out of base quickly and capturing resource nodes. People forget spawning is free, and you almost never use 250 LMG bullets.
IP right next to electrified turret factory, good for protecting against skulk rush.
Going for weapons upgrade first cause killing the skulk before he even bites you is better.
Motion tracking helps even more with taking down skulks, and defending resource nodes.
Good work!
If you can get level three weapons and lots of hmgs to spare with <b>six electrified resources (45x6= 270 resources not to forget to mention all the resources on upgrades)</b> nodes before they can get even one fade, then you are playing against one hell of a crappy alien team.
<!--QuoteBegin--Fang-[CE]+ Sep 30 2003, 10:33 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Fang-[CE] @ Sep 30 2003, 10:33 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->...with electrified phase gates providing quick reinforcements<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Since when did phase gate become electrified?
<!--QuoteBegin--Fang-[CE]+ Sep 30 2003, 10:33 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Fang-[CE] @ Sep 30 2003, 10:33 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->You can afford to have your lone defender die, when all he's trying to defend is an electrified building.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What is the point of electrifying a building when you have marines defending it? The whole point of an electrified building is for it to defend itself. Researching level one armor allows your marines to reach and survive longer at key positions in the map, like hives.
<!--QuoteBegin--JDawg+ Oct 2 2003, 06:53 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (JDawg @ Oct 2 2003, 06:53 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Going for weapons upgrade first cause killing the skulk before he even bites you is better.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
To my knowledge, there was no difference between level zero weapons and level one weapons in killing skulks <b>without carapace</b> in v1.04; in v2.0X I don't think there is any difference either. Level two weapons made a one bullet difference in v1.04, and this insignificant difference most likely carried over to v2.0x.
COM's that get weapons upgrades before armor should be ejected on sight. <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo-->
I always go weapons first so fade/oni arent so hard to kill.
However, since several posters have presented many complex, hard, simple, easy and varied strategies, its easy to work out that its going to be a combonation of lotsa different stuffses, and not just one.
Electrified TF in the centre of all the buildings placed in the (above) strat would help out defence, as lotsa people have found that this seems to work pretty well.
And, yes, armour first is always a better thing... saves on medpack expenditure, re-kit'ing people and gives you a few extra seconds to fire the killing rounds of your gun, so even if you do die, at least the comm got a few res for it as well.
Since the time you planted it right next to the electrified res node in their hive.