If You Were To Get A New Computer...
DiscoZombie
Join Date: 2003-08-05 Member: 18951Members
Join Date: 2003-08-05 Member: 18951Members
in Off-Topic
<div class="IPBDescription">what brand/equipment would you choose?</div> I'm dirt poor and a technological neophyte, but I'm considering buying a new computer... I can pay it off... maybe... besides, I owe it to myself for living with this 700 mhz clunker for so long...
but, yeah, what brands and parts would you guys recommend? right now I'm considering an Alienware laptop... I mean, the biggest disadvantage of laptops is the fact that you can hardly upgrade them, right? I'm too dumb/lazy to upgrade anything anyway :>
so, if you were to get a computer, let's say less than $3,000, what would you pick? laptop or desktop? what brand? why? and don't say I should build my own, cuz I wouldn't even know where to start... <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
but, yeah, what brands and parts would you guys recommend? right now I'm considering an Alienware laptop... I mean, the biggest disadvantage of laptops is the fact that you can hardly upgrade them, right? I'm too dumb/lazy to upgrade anything anyway :>
so, if you were to get a computer, let's say less than $3,000, what would you pick? laptop or desktop? what brand? why? and don't say I should build my own, cuz I wouldn't even know where to start... <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Comments
Oh yeah, since were talking about parts, I must plug <a href='http://www.newegg.com' target='_blank'>NewEgg</a>. That place is awesome.
In any case. My preferred parts (aka: What I Could Do With $3000):
<li>AMD Athlon Barton 2500 or 3000
<li>ASUS A7V8X Deluxe
<li>512MB PC3200 DDR (or just 1.5GB of PC2700)
<li>Radeon 9800 Pro XT
<li>200GB Western Digital (8MB cache, 7200rpm)
<li>SBLive (Audigies are overpriced and do little/nothing over a Live)
<li>ServerDream case (w/450W PSU incl)
(Alternately, something like a Vapochill water-cooled case)
<li>Decent LCD/CRT monitor that'll handle 1600x1200 (or more? <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->)
<li>Logitech MX550
<li>Clickboard (full mechanical keyboard with solid motion, that you can crack walnuts with)
<li>Wacom graphics tablet
<li>CD-RW/DVD
but, yeah, what brands and parts would you guys recommend? right now I'm considering an Alienware laptop... I mean, the biggest disadvantage of laptops is the fact that you can hardly upgrade them, right? I'm too dumb/lazy to upgrade anything anyway :>
so, if you were to get a computer, let's say less than $3,000, what would you pick? laptop or desktop? what brand? why? and don't say I should build my own, cuz I wouldn't even know where to start... <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I've always been lousy with buying parts, i buy a bit at a time and generally my computer just evolves.
But one thing, about laptops. If you're considering one because of space, get a XPC shuttle case (or one of similar size) with an nForce 2 inside of it and a TFT monitor rather than shelling out for a laptop, which leads me to the other point. I've found laptops to be more expensive than full-size machines and also not as advanced. What you're paying for is the size of it and the mobility, and if you're not exactly intending to be mobile, you can get more machine for your money with a full-size rather than a laptop.
And for some reason i type "Laption" several times throughout this post, and i have no idea why.
edit: went to Skulk's link, so one of my questions has been retroactively answered :> where would other ppl buy their parts? I guess still my most pressing question is whether I'd be able to pull off building my own. Is everything more-or-less shove-the-part-in-the-slot-and-connect-the-wire these days, or is there a lot more to it?
I'm getting advice from my girlfriend to stay with pre-made puters, for warranties and such... because, I mean, if I built my own and got some crazy error message, or the machine wouldn't boot, I'd have no Alienware or Dell to help me troubleshoot or send me a replacement part when I find out something's faulty...
edit: grammar
edit: went to Skulk's link, so one of my questions has been retroactively answered :> where would other ppl buy their parts? I guess still my most pressing question is whether I'd be able to pull off building my own. Is everything more-or-less shove-the-part-in-the-slot-and-connect-the-wire these days, or is there a lot more to it? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you're unsure about building a computer yourself, while it can be a learning experience, i'd recommend you get someone that knows what they're doing to do it, so just incase you go wrong, or plug in an IDE cable the wrong way, you know who you can talk to to fix it.
I'd recommend asking your friends to see if any of them can do it, or better still, get one to show you how to do it so you learn for the future. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
<span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'><a href='http://www.abspc.com/gamezone/index.html' target='_blank'>ABS</a></span>
AMD AthlonXP 2700+@333mhz
512 DDR Pc2700
full tower case
40gig harddisk
Gigabyte Mobo
Total- $569
-2 gig AMD processor
-Asus Motherboard
-512 ram
-dvd drave
-cd rw
-f!
if I can put together a top-of-the-line system for like $2000, I'll be thrilled, so maybe I'll take the advice and look into doing it myself... :> thanks for the tips, and yeah, any other input is still welcome...
P4 2.4 Ghz type B (Type C had just come out a day after I ordered)
512 2700 DDR Ram
40gb Seagate 7200.7 HD
Antec Case
Asus p4p800 Mobo w/ built in Gigabit LAN card & audo
GeForce FX5200
AoC 17" monitor
It beats my friends 1k AMD system. Hehe.
[edit] forgot to put in my 2cents.
Well, you can build your own system for cheaper, but if you want something with a warranty, go with a pre-built computer. Though Newegg will replace damaged parts, if you didn't cause the damage. Still, a factory build and then format means you get a decent system and a good warranty. Just don't get a Dell, because they tinker with the parts so you can't upgrade EXCEPT through them. Only thing you can upgrade is the CD bays.
(Alternately, something like a Vapochill water-cooled case)<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I never knew VapoChill made H2O cooled cases? The only ones i've seen use Phase Change cooling, basically like a refridgerator, can get temps as low as -45C from what i've heard. But definately not for the beginner, lots of insulation is needed around the ZIF socket.
As for building your own, i would really recommend it, we've all gotta start somewhere. I'm sure you can find endless reams of pages on the net about anything you're unsure of, and at the end of the day you can say "I did that". Your first home built is always the best, no matter how much it sucks. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
As for hardware brands, it's all much of a muchness atm. For motherborads i would recommend Epox/ABit/ASUS branded boards (ASRock aren't terrible, they're the budget arm of ASUS, but not much cop for an overclocker).
CPU is pretty much up to you. AMD are cheaper, but tend to run hotter. Intel run faster, cooler, more efficient CPU's, but have a price to match. There is more in the arguement than that, but it's irrelivent in regards to a new PC builder to be honest.
For graphics i'd be inclined towards ATi, i've always been an nVIDIA man (even up to my current GF4 Ti4200), but they've really started lacking behind the newer Radeons, my next graphics card purchase will be a Radeon.
Just try and get matching hardware, and ask about for help, most people knowledgable in this area wouldn't hesitate to help a person new to PC building. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Going clock-for-clock, AMD chips blow Intel chips out of the water. Rate a P4 2GHz against an Athlon 2GHz (not XP2000+), and you'll see the Pentium lose in all aspects, anywhere from 20%-40% in performance. Heck, AMD still hasn't broken the 3GHz mark yet in actual clockcycles, and they STILL keep pace with the top-grade Pentiums.
And that's not even getting INTO the 64-bit architecture. The Hammers keep pace with the Intel 64-bit chips in 64-bit applications.. and STOMP them in 32-bit, as the Hammers don't have to *emulate* a 32-bit processor to run the code. They just take it and spit it back, pleased as pai.
if I can put together a top-of-the-line system for like $2000, I'll be thrilled, so maybe I'll take the advice and look into doing it myself... :> thanks for the tips, and yeah, any other input is still welcome... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Building my first machine was scary too but it's absolutely worth it. I do recommend doing some research before you start though. Check out <a href='http://www.pcmech.com/build.htm' target='_blank'>the PC Mechanic Build Your Own PC</a> website. It's a little dated but should cover everything you need from start to finish. I would suggest that you have a working computer that has internet access next to you when you build. Then if you have any troubles (not likely if you can follow instructions <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> ) you can ask questions here or <a href='http://forum.pcmech.com/index.php' target='_blank'>at the PC Mechanic Forums.</a> Their forums are full of gurus and you can usually get an answer in less than an hour.
When you start looking for parts, I'd suggest writing down what specs you want and then go shopping at <a href='http://www.newegg.com/' target='_blank'>NewEgg.</a> You cannot beat their service. Be sure to check the reviews for components too.
I promise that you won't regret building your own machine <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
And also: I contacted Dell with all these problems... they have yet to reply to any of them bar the monitor problem.
In my opinion, you would be best off building your own machine. If that is unfeasible, go for a PC manufacturer, but format and reinstall everything as soon as you get it. Most manufacturers bundle so much crap with their systems its not funny.
Personally, I would go for an Intel processor.
In my own experience, Creative soundcards have lots of irregularities and are generally not very good. I have heard it may be a Dell/Creative compatibilty problem though.
period
now, for homebrew vs namebrand.
first off I hate Dell, I dislike most of them but dell is my least fav.
Basicaly b/c none of them offer cheapass comps for those NOT intending to game.
now, with $2K I could build a stupidly great rig (/me wants 2K) with 1K I could do it (but I already have keyboard, mouse, moniter etc)
so lets see, basicaly what alot of people have been saying, go to one of the online retailers that will assembel it for you.
personaly I vote <a href='http://www.mwave.com/mwave/index.hmx' target='_blank'>MWave</a>?, but again all of this stuff is personal preff <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
with MWave what you do it you buy a mother board bundel (mobo, cpu, ram) and get a nice littel discount, I of course prefer AMD (points at Tale's post, yah)
$631.07
ASUS K8V DLX-MB; AMD ATHLON 64 3200+; KINGSTON 512MB DDR400
Thats the core of your computer
then for the (sorta) heafty price of $80 they will assemble, test, and install all hardware for you
Or you can find a friend who knows about said things and get him/her to help you build it (help, not do it for you, this is the best way to learn)
I am going to be helping my friend build a PC gaming rig for her soon (God I love making comps <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->)
Going clock-for-clock, AMD chips blow Intel chips out of the water. Rate a P4 2GHz against an Athlon 2GHz (not XP2000+), and you'll see the Pentium lose in all aspects, anywhere from 20%-40% in performance. Heck, AMD still hasn't broken the 3GHz mark yet in actual clockcycles, and they STILL keep pace with the top-grade Pentiums.
And that's not even getting INTO the 64-bit architecture. The Hammers keep pace with the Intel 64-bit chips in 64-bit applications.. and STOMP them in 32-bit, as the Hammers don't have to *emulate* a 32-bit processor to run the code. They just take it and spit it back, pleased as pai. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ohhh, so that's what the XP stuff is all about, i thought it was just a marketting gimick, i stand corrected. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
I just put together the following system for my friend for $600 (just the box, since he allready had keyboard, mouse, monitor, etc.)
Dynapower black/silver case with 300W power supply
Gigabyte motherboard w/nForce 2 Ultra 400 chipset
ATi Raedon 9600 Pro
Athlon XP 2500
512 MB Kingston PC 2700
WD 80GB 7200RPM Hard Drive w/8 meg cache
Lite on 48x24x48x16 CD/RW and DVD combo drive
all for $611.99 Shipped from CA to NC from <a href='http://www.newegg.com' target='_blank'>Newegg.com</a>
and there is PLEANTY of room for improvement if you have the cash. I was on a $600 budget when i put this machine together, If i would of had more money to work with I would of gone with 1GB of pc 3200 Ram, and SATA Raid Hard drive setup, along with a better power supply and possibly an upgraded video card. But the system that I build runs all games beautifully right now. You might as well give it a shot man, you really dont have much to lose. If youve got an old computer laying around try taking it apart and putting it back together as a little test to see if you can do it.
Going clock-for-clock, AMD chips blow Intel chips out of the water. Rate a P4 2GHz against an Athlon 2GHz (not XP2000+), and you'll see the Pentium lose in all aspects, anywhere from 20%-40% in performance. Heck, AMD still hasn't broken the 3GHz mark yet in actual clockcycles, and they STILL keep pace with the top-grade Pentiums.
And that's not even getting INTO the 64-bit architecture. The Hammers keep pace with the Intel 64-bit chips in 64-bit applications.. and STOMP them in 32-bit, as the Hammers don't have to *emulate* a 32-bit processor to run the code. They just take it and spit it back, pleased as pai. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ohhh, so that's what the XP stuff is all about, i thought it was just a marketting gimick, i stand corrected. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The XP rating was meant to show equivalence to the old Thunderbird core (eg: the older athlon 1ghz and such)
i've got a 2400+ XP and it runs at 2GHz (well 2.16ghz @ 320mhz fsb after i got to it, so its like a 2800+ now, and it can still go faster)
Talesin the XP1800 is 1533mhz, your 1.4 would be more like a 1700+, if it is palomino core (or tbred, but i think that's 1800 onwards) - for interests sake, the 3200+ only runs at 2200mhz (the 3000+ at 2167)
i wouldn't waste money on P4, for reasons Talesin summed up so nicely - all the P4 fanboys ever seem to be able to throw at me is their frontside bus speed (internally the P4 is slower than the AMD so no a mount of bus speed is going to help it - mind you it can and will rape an athlon on memory bandwidth, but memory aint everything...)
The Athlons only run hotter because they actually work <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> unlike the Intel which isn't fast enough to generate any heat (plus they have ridiculously huge heatsinks)
now less rant and some (hopefully useful) advice:
Motherboard: The nForce2 Ultra 400 chipset with dual channel ddr is the fastest currently available, but you have to use two sticks of memory to take advantage of the dual channel (so good quality ram is recommended, eg: corsair, kingston). The VIA KT400 chipset is good too (I use it with no problems) and I think it's cheaper...
Hard Drive: Look for ATA-133 and 8mb cache if you can, Serial ATA is still expensive and only faster if you have one of the 10k rpm drives (but they are pretty expensive). You'll most likely find ATA-100 and 8mb cache is best value for a single drive system (and ATA-133 is getting harder to find, I think only Maxtor sell it now)
Video Card: This gets debated more than CPUs, but at the moment I'd be going with the Radeon myself, the 9600 Pro looks to be excellent value (whilst not being crap like the 9200). Video cards can get expensive, but it's worth buying at least a mid-range one (like the 9600 Pro) so you're still happy with it's performance when HL2 comes out (read: around December 30th, 2004 <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> )
Case: Generally chosen for looks more than anything. Don't buy anything with a power supply smaller than 350W, or you might find yourself having stability problems when you make the system work hard. Other than that basically buy what ever looks good and fits your needs best
Cooling: If you can afford it the Vapochill cases (and similar phase-change cooled cases) rock for keeping things cool, but they aren't really worth it unless you want to overclock hard. My advice is to stick with air cooling - a decent heatsink/fan on the CPU eg: a Thermaltake, Thermalright or something decent like that (although the stock one is usually fine), and maybe a couple case fans to get air flowing through the case (they make a huge diffference unless you have the sides of your case off all the time)
Sound Card: Most motherboards come with onboard sound, which I like since I have an anti-creative policy (look around, there's better sounding cards our there, and they dont have the loads of "additional" software that creative loves to include)
Network Card: Generally you'll have onboard LAN, if you don't, I've never had problems with Digital/Intel cards (most of them use the same chip, works perfectly even in Linux). At the moment Gigabit isn't much use unless you're going to buy an expensive switch for it and you have a LAN to use it on. Still, if you get it for free (onboard) there's no point complaining <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
CD/DVD: Liteon have been good to me, so I'll recommend them. Make sure any DVD drive you look at is ATA-66 or better (ATA-33 is too slow). LG is good too, Kaine uses one of their burners with no troubles and we had one at home back when 4x was fast (that was a while ago now wasnt it?)
I build all my own computers, and quite a few others so this is all what I've picked up from experience (and all i felt like writing at 3:25am)
edit: added CD/DVD bit
hope that helps,
-- Codeman
I'm surprised capitalism isn't playing it's proper role and there aren't more (well-known) places building computers for people at just-above-cost... I guess every average joe in the country expects to pay a lot for a computer, so companies like Dell jump on that...
I was happy with my Dell 733 mhz machine; it's lasted me this long without a hitch. I think dell's really gone downhill since then though, since I know 4 people with new(er) Dell laptops and all of them have major problems and have to invoke the warranty every month or 2... and, yes, I'm sure my dell was $1000 more than the sum of its parts...
anyway, I was just handed $2,000 worth of back paychecks, so my dreams may become a reality (if I have any left after paying the bills) :> thanks again, everyone, for the advice :>
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
CHIEFTEC Server Chasis (Aluminum Workstation) BLACK w/450Watt Foxconn Power Supply **Now with 2 x Front USB2.0 and 1 x Firewire IEEE1394 ports**
Specifications:
Material: Aluminum
Form Factor: ATX
Drive Bays: External 4 x 5.25", 2 x 3.5", Internal: 4 x 3.5".
Expansion Slots:7
Fans:2 rear Mounted Fans
Power Supply:450W AMD approved Power Supply, Powered by Foxconn (Austin)
Dimensions:473 x 205 x 522 mm (D x W x H)
$73
Seagate 40GB 7200rpm EIDE Hard Drive OEM Barracuda 7200.7 ST340014A
Specifications:
Size: 40 Gigabytes
Interface: IDE ULTRA ATA100
Seek time: 8.5ms
RPM:7200
OEM(Drive alone) 1 Year Manufacturer Warranty
2x $57.50
$115.00
KINGSTON HyperX 184-pin 512MB DDR400 (PC3200) DDR RAM modules, Model# KHX3200A/512
Specifications:
Type: Kingston HyperX
Capacity: 512MB
Speed: DDR 400 (PC 3200)
Latency: CAS Latency 2 (2-3-2-6-1T)
$125.00
Asus Motherboard for AMD Athlon XP/Duron Processors, Model# A7N8X Deluxe Retail
Socket A AMD Athlon XP/Duron (support AMD XP 3200+ "Barton")
Chipset: NVIDIA nForce2 Ultra SPP, nForce2 MCP-T
FSB: 400/333/266MHz
IDE: 2 x ATA133
RAM: Dual Channel DDR 400 3x 184-pin DIMM Sockets (PC3200/PC2700/PC2100 non-ECC DDR)
Slots: 1x AGP (Pro/8X), 5x PCI
Ports: 6x USB2.0
Onboard Silicon Image Sil 3112A Controller w/ 2 ports
NVIDIA SoundStorm Audio Processor Unit with Dolby
MCP integrated 3Com MAC + Broadcom AC101L PHY LAN
Firewire 1394: 2 Ports MCP-T integrated IEEE 1394a + Realtek PHY 8801B
$123.00
AMD ATHLON XP 2600+ Barton 333MHz FSB PROCESSOR CPU- RETAIL
Specifications:
CPU: 1.9 GHz
Type: XP 2600 Barton Core
Cache: 512K L2
BUS: 333MHz
Socket A
Retail Box (Heatsink and Fan included)
$107.00
ATI RADEON 9600 PRO 128MB 8X AGP DVI/TV RETAIL
Specifications:
Chipset:ATI RADEON 9600 PRO
Memory:128MB of double data rate SDRAM
Bus:AGP 4X (1.5V), 8X (0.8v) or Universal AGP 3.0 bus configuration (4X/8X).
Operating Systems Support: Windows® XP Windows® 2000 Windows® Me
4 parallel rendering pipelines
2 parallel geometry engines
Technology Features: SMARTSHADER™ 2.0, SMOOTHVISION™ 2.1, HYPER Z™ III+ TRUFORM™ 2.0 and VIDEOSHADER™
Max Res: 2048x1536 60HZ at 16.7M Colors
Ports:VGA + DVI + S-Video
Retail box (see pictures for details)
$173.00
Total: $716.00
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the prices are about 10% higher than newegg when you buy retail like that, but 10% is nearly what you would pay for shipping of such delicate electronics. a real store is infinitely easier to return things that dont work and to get help from real people is a godsend.
never buy brand name boxes like dell and gateway because they dont tell you the quality of their parts, which is generally lacking, or in worse cases like HP or compaq theyll sell proprietary hardware that youll never get any use out of once you become computer savvy.
newegg will have the best prices, but i happen to value the service of a real shop enough to warrant the slight price difference. at least check them out.
these figures are a compilation of educated guesses by me and my 32 year old computer friend who lives with his parents, figures are rounded up for safety's sake
nice video card $600
a good gig of ram $200
nice case $100
good motherboard $200
and a like 80 gig hd for like $75
and your pretty much set...