Is The Gl Not As Awesome As I Think...
Asal_The_Unforgiving
Join Date: 2003-03-26 Member: 14903Members
Join Date: 2003-03-26 Member: 14903Members
<div class="IPBDescription">....or am I just disillusioned?</div> Alright, I've seen HMGs rain from the sky like a plague of locusts, I've seen commanders line up shotguns in endless armories, but I've rarely seen a GL touch the ground in a game, let alone more than 1. I find that gun is THE ONLY support weapon the marines have, so why isn't it used more?! I haven't EVER seen it in clan play, and that bothers me. If you can use that gun, you can topple more than any two HMGs. In clan play, you got the cover you need to get the job done, and you got the willingness (if you're in a clan, you better) to learn how to use it right. SO WHY IS IT NEVER USED?!
Comments
-lerk in the vent
-oc/dc spam (usually in smaller games)
-onos and a bunch of gorges camping outside your base
GL *is* a support weapon, and most people just tend to want to shoot some aliens instead of tactical lobbing of grens =\. Though i do agree there should be at least 1 person in the squad which has one (for HA squads they should be w/o a welder so they can use the pistol as backup). Although on pubs where there are more rambos around, they prefer the hmg or shotty... the gl is more difficult to kill an alien with 1v1, you might also end up blowing yourself up in the process as you shoot the ground frantically at that skulk.
When I comm I rarely ever drop them.
If you have to bust through a wall of OC you need a GL.
Otherwise I'm trying to set up a siege base or capture locations so I don't need my troops to be able to slowly destroy whatever is around the corner, I need them to quickly destroy whatever is coming at them right away. The GL just takes too long to reload and doesn't have any close range capability. When I play Fade I always target the GL carrying guys just because they are such easy targets. So in general I tend to think GLs are not worth it.
ie
-Base defence
-shooting top walkway in viaduct hive on NS_Nothing if u dont have JPS
-deterant
the best thing about the GL is the diterant factor imo. if you have ppl building in a location with some other trrops there a GL is invaluable as a deterant. if theres an onos waiting to rush in a GL can provide an effective deterant until said base is built or waiting for more troops to arrive. lurks, gorges and skulk all fear it and seeing as most onos will try to bring some support units with them a GL can be very handy.
i really like having a GL to literally just sit at phase gates and shoot any thing i can, i can then traverse the phase networks to be where im most needed for defense while the big HA squad is moving in on a location.
a GL carrying marine does suffer from being as weak as a paper bag if hes on his own though, which is why a Gl carrying marine should either be in a TFd mini base or with other units. but he should never ever be on his own away from anywhere that would be suicide ><
I love GLs, can't get enough of them. I GLed my way through AvP, AvP2, UT, Quake, etc, you name it, I've GLed it.
The GL is a devastating weapon, if employed correctly. Granted, you don't always get HMG protection, but in that situation the team is doomed, so it really makes no difference.
I think the real reason for its relative scarcity is that most people tech up to HA HMG, and thus can bypass the GL entirely by using welder and med spam. GL is excellent for JPs, excellent for LA troops, but when it comes to HA its pretty much (but not entirely) obsolete.
I still love it though - its GL or shotties for me.
Note: guy with GL = dedicated welder whenever there aren't any buildings or stubborn hidden kharaa around (vents, etc.). Firing a GL at skulks is a waste of ammo in an HA/HMG/shotty train.
or a crack weasel jumper <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
LOL, sure, you "CAN" but never will. Anything thats not moving. The thing about the GL is, its either for hanging out in base where someone else can pick it up when you die, and you WILL die, or moving in groups of other assorted weapons to cover you. The GL is NOT for killing aliens. The GL is for killing structures, or holding off aliens. Sure you kill aliens with it, but rarely because you score a direct hit. Commanders dont drop GLs to "kill" aliens, apart from an annoying lerk int he vent. The GL is next to useless by himself, because even with heavy armor, a GLer is skulk bait, pure and simple. If you don't have somebody to keep skulks off you, you WILL die. I tend to not pick a welder up when I get GL and HA. I keep my pistol because I know that even if I ask my team to cover me they WONT. Skulks run through huge groups of HA and straight to the GLer because they know that the chance of the GLer hitting him with one of 4 nades is slim to none, AND, on top of that if he does hit you, hes going to either kill himself or damage himself enough for the next skulk or "insert alien here" to kill him. As for clan play, I can see why people don't use them. Since clan matches have teamkill on.... GL = many TK, but as you said, if used right, which means either firing from the rear of the group, TO the rear, to keep aliens at bay, OR, being in the front of the group firing to the front. Any other way, besides running around by yourself is too risky, as the clan match is to win, not to have fun.
LOL, sure, you "CAN" but never will. Anything thats not moving. The thing about the GL is, its either for hanging out in base where someone else can pick it up when you die, and you WILL die, or moving in groups of other assorted weapons to cover you. The GL is NOT for killing aliens. The GL is for killing structures, or holding off aliens. Sure you kill aliens with it, but rarely because you score a direct hit. Commanders dont drop GLs to "kill" aliens, apart from an annoying lerk int he vent. The GL is next to useless by himself, because even with heavy armor, a GLer is skulk bait, pure and simple. If you don't have somebody to keep skulks off you, you WILL die. I tend to not pick a welder up when I get GL and HA. I keep my pistol because I know that even if I ask my team to cover me they WONT. Skulks run through huge groups of HA and straight to the GLer because they know that the chance of the GLer hitting him with one of 4 nades is slim to none, AND, on top of that if he does hit you, hes going to either kill himself or damage himself enough for the next skulk or "insert alien here" to kill him. As for clan play, I can see why people don't use them. Since clan matches have teamkill on.... GL = many TK, but as you said, if used right, which means either firing from the rear of the group, TO the rear, to keep aliens at bay, OR, being in the front of the group firing to the front. Any other way, besides running around by yourself is too risky, as the clan match is to win, not to have fun. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
er, actually, I've been working with my nader, and I think that being able to shoot a leaping skulk 3 out of 5 times is good enough to warrant handing one over to me. I can hit mostly anything, except those annoying blinking fades. I HATE people who use it as base defense only, because that means it's nothing more than a glorified tower, and by far it isn't. It's a support weapon, through and through, and I can make it work. Really the only reason I posted this was to see what happened in the pubs with it. I wanna see more come out, so more people get good with them, so they don't go the way of the 1.04 GL, where you never saw it. The 2.0 GL, although vulnerable, is still dangerously powerful, and if you can catch ANYTHING in a hall, you can kill it goodbye, because then it can come at you or run, and either way, the GL can cut it off. The only problem I have is, not shooting my dancing HA/HMG buddies in the back of the head....they like to jump in the way. I suppose my main issue with what you said is the chances of hitting a skulk are "slim to none". Charge at me sometime, little doggie alien. You'll end up on the walls in no time. Of course you can't go off alone, but ANYONE off alone is dead meat, so what's the difference, really? You get even a single good shotgunner or HMGer at your side, and you can set up a phase, a tf, and the seige guns while still merrily watching the evil inferno consume skulks, gorges, and onos.
BTW, I play in a clan to have fun at a higher-skill level....you see an entirely different style of play, but I really couldn't care less whether we win or lose.
WHERE'S MY GL EMOTICON!!!?!?!?!? <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo-->
Edit: I prefer GL/Welder/HA, because otherwise I end up pulling out my pistol instead of completing the reload, and then I have to start over. Also, a welder from a downed marine can REALLY ruin your day if you're in a firefight, and it's even worse when there's only you and another heavy left, and you have to swap secondaries so you can weld him. Talk about vulnerable!
BTW, I play in a clan to have fun at a higher-skill level....you see an entirely different style of play, but I really couldn't care less whether we win or lose.
WHERE'S MY GL EMOTICON!!!?!?!?!? <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo-->
Edit: I prefer GL/Welder/HA, because otherwise I end up pulling out my pistol instead of completing the reload, and then I have to start over. Also, a welder from a downed marine can REALLY ruin your day if you're in a firefight, and it's even worse when there's only you and another heavy left, and you have to swap secondaries so you can weld him. Talk about vulnerable!
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Yeah, I hate hitting my teamates in the back of the head, it's like they don't even care they are standing in front of a gler. The welder is a downside to carrying the pistol, but assuming you are in a HA train, you can only hope to god one of them doesnt go down in front of you. I don't really mean clan matches are all game and no fun, but most people want to win while having fun. I'm guessing most clans don't bother with a GL because it is very risky, and like you pointed out, popping nades off teamates heads is quite annoying in pub play, but can be disasterous in a clan match.
Also, the HMG is one of the few weapons people can do pretty well by themselves with. Not too good for higher evolutions by yourself however. Usually if were going in a small group of HA, I will take a welder, because they have no choice but to cover me, as I am a very important part of the squad. In larger HA groups though, people tend to forget their vulnerable powerhouse hanging back a little, and forget to get the skulks making play out of him off. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
GL fails so often because people don't know how to use it.
To clear out WoL's, bounce grenades around the corner. If that doesn't work correctly, i.e. the grenades don't turn as much from the wall, etc, you need to seriously learn some simple math and physics (whichever one applies <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->)
I consider myself a GL specialist - I've used them exclusively in many games, so it's second nature <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Granted though, if you're facing a competent skulk, you're going to get destroyed because it won't give you a chance to get a bead on it.
What's fun is against sensory skulks, I have a talent for seeing cloaked aliens and popping grenades into them because they're crawling so slowly. I can only hit skulks and gorges though, I have never hit an onos with a grenade. I shoot them and the grenades fly through their body leaving me going... <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->?
Skulks and gorges the hitboxes make sense, so that's all good.
Fade: Be sure the 'nades hit low into its belly and legs, that's where your hitbox is, or the nade will go through.
Onos: The only way I know is to ricochet off the wall and his the side hitboxes, or off the cieling and pound it from the top. A pain I know, but there just isn't anything else to aim for. I know you can hit it SOMEWHERE up front, but I've been unable to pinpoint it as of yet
Though it doesn't do an awful lot of damage (you see blood, but you don't get the kill). You REALLY need HMG support - GL vs Onos will be a lose for the GLer unless the Onos is fool enough to crawl towards him down a loooong corridor. I put 2 grenades into an Onos as it went for me - lots of blood but it was still moving. It devoured me, and my smacktard HMG "teammates" just let it gore them to death. Fun.
unupgraded.
Point is - if you're an HMG man, cover your GLer. If you're GL, stay close to the HMGs, but don't block their LOS and for goodness sake don't hide at the back - skulks will get you just as easily from behind.
It's a specialist weapon. Normal people aren't special. It also requires you to think. Normal people don't want to think that much when they need to kill something.
Comms, not wanting to gamble when they already have too many things on their plate, go with a surefire thing, even if it might be more boring. It's also a vicious cycle, like commanding is. (People don't get it because they can't use it, but they need one to learn how to use it effectivly.
However, if your singing the blues of not being able to play with this neat toy, I recommend looking over to the classics... Specificly, Team Fortress Classic. Play as a Demoman for a bit, and learn how to lead your aim with moving targets. Then switch back to NS and play with Cheat mode on (because the physics of NS compared to TFC are different, of course) And readjust your aim. Then you'll be able to use it more effectivly.
Anyways, I figured out why the NS Admin gave the GL such a better model and Crosshair: So people would use it more.
In fact , I'm positive it's the only changed model in 2.0 , with the coolest reload animation possible. Back on August the 1rst there were two main things 1.04 NSers wanted to see : the new sensory chamber for the alien , so in most games they used the SDM order (which got countered pretty fast) , and the new GL for the marines , everyone asked the comm to drop GLs , even though it's certainly not a rambo's best pick.
Anyways... the GL only needs skills to use in certain cases. It's not very difficult to bounce grenade around walls to destroy a WoL , catching a skulk in a vent is harder obviously. There's a no skill tactic to defend phased outposts : whenever you hear that x location is under attack , get here with your GL using the phase gate , empty your clip by madly shooting grenades all over the place , and phase back. With luck , you'll see a few skulk frags lining up. With such a terrorist strategy you can bet gorges , lerks and fades will keep their distances. Of course it doesn't work in tournament mode , the comm wouldn't appreciate this...
Because
A) If youre alone, youre dead
B) It costs as much as two SGs, which deals aprox the same dmg to both structures and aliens, but can aim.
C) Adv. Armoury req.
D) Sieges dont need to be close to a hive to attack it, neither a WoL, making them both cheaper and more safe.
E) Clangames are to fast for GLs to matter(hive dies in seconds)
B) It costs as much as two SGs, does allegedly the same damage, but can be carried by one man. And if you can't hit a building with a GL, you're blind and shouldn't be playing FPS games.
C) Adv. Armoury req - applies to HMG also.
D) Siege bases, unless cleverly placed, require defences. Siege base PLUS equipping defensive measures can easily run to several times the cost of a GL.
E) Clangames revolve around virtually the same strategy and counter every time, and thus can't really be counted on as examples of tactical use.
or a crack weasel jumper <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes i am!...
Seriously even as support I rather have another hmg'er to cover their backs why reducing the squads ability to kill structures.
GL only holds 4 shots, making it useless to most unskilled players except your elite ninjas, which i rather hand a hmg to. Rarely are there more than 2 skilled marines in a squad so it is a waste of res. The only exception is a GL / PG rush in a hive, but then again you have to have all your players go together and cooperate, with 1 or 2 hmg'er to kill the skulks.
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