Life And Death
Dread
Join Date: 2002-07-24 Member: 993Members
Join Date: 2002-07-24 Member: 993Members
in Discussions
What happens after death? How are we born?
This is a thread about those two subjects. You are more than welcome to enlighten us with info about how different religions view it. Pseudo-scientific geek explanations are always interesting to read and of course what's your personal opinion?
Now I warn you only one time; No sci vs. god debates here, please. It's very difficult to do any concrete research on birth and death so we can not say anything for certain about them. Just some deeep philosophy for the late hours of night <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
It's always hard to start so I'm going to be a chicken *it and voice my opinion later on.
This is a thread about those two subjects. You are more than welcome to enlighten us with info about how different religions view it. Pseudo-scientific geek explanations are always interesting to read and of course what's your personal opinion?
Now I warn you only one time; No sci vs. god debates here, please. It's very difficult to do any concrete research on birth and death so we can not say anything for certain about them. Just some deeep philosophy for the late hours of night <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
It's always hard to start so I'm going to be a chicken *it and voice my opinion later on.
Comments
I'll post my pseudo-geek hypothesis later (will require some time <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> )
We're born and attain sentience exactly how Frankenstein showed it: An electical current through our brains.
You know, the day we make artificial intelligence, I'm going to find the first chrisitan and slap him in the face.
We could be to God like articificial intelligent programs are to us. Lifeless and expendible.
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, you see. When a girl and a boy love each other very much.....
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, you see. When a girl and a boy love each other very much..... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Where our souls come from? Or do we have one? Where comes the energy in our brains? It's kind of weird to think how I got my consciousnes(sp?). Did it somehow evolve or did I just open my eyes and think for the first time?
So would it be wrong to assume that what we are made of never dies? that only our self-awareness (sense input really) dies. Does it really make any sense "life" is so fragile? Not in my book, I see the whole thing (universe) as a clump of clay, which many things form from and changes shape.
Anyway, there is more to it, but I wont bother since it's getting late <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Seriously? On death...
I think when we die, we go wherever we believe. I'm going to a LAN <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
/edit. "Pen15" is a bad word...? And **** isn't.... <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo-->
Life, or, "souls" are just electrical impulses and the "wiring" of our brains. A "tortured soul" could be a short and simplified example of someone who's had a traumatic early life and such.
Death? well... does it really matter? i mean, you'll be dead when you find out, right? in a sense, you wouldn't really be able to find out what it's like being dead because all the electrical activity in your brain stops. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
hehehe.
i'll be waiting. Why would humans creating AI want you to go and slap a christian
However, there still remains as to what would happen if the AI started to "die off"; it has to be in something (IE: android or other machine-like-thing) would it also be as interested in this post if it knew it was mortal? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
Oh? And what if that AI were? Theres no conclusive evidence BTW that monkeys and dolphins don't think about the afterlife. Since I know of no one who speaks monkey or dolphin, whos to say that they aren't deaply philisophical thinkers? Yeah I know, it seems a little rediculous but the point is that your speration of 'human' and 'animal' lies soley in religion, not in fact. Besides, maybe they don't think about the afterlife because they don't need a God like the silly humans.
That's why he made sure he got people settled and past a crucible.
If we ever create AI...I'll be the first person to go up to it and beat it down with my giant hand. Oh, wait, that's Black & White.
Oh? And what if that AI were? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
if it was interested in this thread? i doubt that.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Theres no conclusive evidence BTW that monkeys and dolphins don't think about the afterlife. Since I know of no one who speaks monkey or dolphin, whos to say that they aren't deaply philisophical thinkers?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There is no conclusive proof for anything, but that is a different matter entirely. Animals dont think about the afterlife because they dont have funerals. They get sad, if it is a loved one who died, but they dont gather all their freinds together, put the animal in a box and bury it. For them, Death is part of the natural cycle
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Yeah I know, it seems a little rediculous but the point is that your speration of 'human' and 'animal' lies soley in religion, not in fact. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Lets say you are drving down a road and in the road are a young rabbit and a child. You have to hit one of them, you would go for the rabbit. You are not religious, so according to you, the child is no better than the rabbit, so why do you go for the rabbit?
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Besides, maybe they don't think about the afterlife because they don't need a God like the silly humans.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
yes, or maybe they have no eternal element to them, their life is just here, when they die, they wont be. Unlike the humans with a soul, which is eternal and the body is merely a house that the soul lives in
And why's that? What if an Artificial Intelegence developed and started asking questions like "Am I alive? What will when I am shut off"? That'd be pretty strong evidence that humans really aren't that special after all.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->There is no conclusive proof for anything, but that is a different matter entirely. Animals dont think about the afterlife because they dont have funerals. They get sad, if it is a loved one who died, but they dont gather all their freinds together, put the animal in a box and bury it. For them, Death is part of the natural cycle<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not as such no. But some animals do have a sot of death ritual. Elephants, for instance, are known to repeatedly visit the bones of dead matriarchs, though I'll admit that there could be another explaination for such activity.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Lets say you are drving down a road and in the road are a young rabbit and a child. You have to hit one of them, you would go for the rabbit. You are not religious, so according to you, the child is no better than the rabbit, so why do you go for the rabbit?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thats a simple choice. I am human, and therefore (typically) place members of my own species above members of others, most animals do this. Now had you picked a dog, then it would have required more consideration because I really like dogs, since I've grown up with them my entire life the instinctual part of my brain has been tricked into accepting dogs as a subclass of human, and as such, a member of the species worth protecting. Likewise, a dog's instinct has been tricked into believing humans are a subclass of dog, and that the family it belongs to is a pack.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->yes, or maybe they have no eternal element to them, their life is just here, when they die, they wont be. Unlike the humans with a soul, which is eternal and the body is merely a house that the soul lives in<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sure it could be that way. Or it could be that humans are just the only animal that has separated itself enough from nature to require the concept of an afterlife to continue functioning (some fo them anyway).
The point is that your beliefs about animals not having a soul are based in religion, not fact. You could give me factual reasons all year long but I'd still know that you formed that opinion because it was written in a book.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->...your <b>speration</b> of 'human' and 'animal'...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
you said nothing about a soul, so, now, when i mention that ther are lots of things that separate humans from animals, such as us wearing clothes, going to work, earning money, playing computer games, using methods of transportation other than our own two feet, constantly inventing things to make our life easier, discussing life after death, talking about AI, trying to work out where we came from, etc... , you are just going to say "OMG! im not talking about that, i am saying that you saying humans have a soul is from religion!!oneone"
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->And why's that? What if an Artificial Intelegence developed and started asking questions like "Am I alive? What will when I am shut off"? That'd be pretty strong evidence that humans really aren't that special after all.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
but has it happened? No
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Not as such no. But some animals do have a sot of death ritual. Elephants, for instance, are known to repeatedly visit the bones of dead matriarchs, though I'll admit that there could be another explaination for such activity.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
But do they say "she's gone to a better place?" i dont think so. They are just sad because they miss them, and they loved them. Elephants have feelings too.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Now had you picked a dog, then it would have required more consideration because I really like dogs, since I've grown up with them my entire life the instinctual part of my brain has been tricked into accepting dogs as a subclass of human, and as such, a member of the species worth protecting.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
ok, Lets say you are drving down a road and in the road are a puppy and a child. You have to hit one of them, you would probably go for the puppy yes?. You are not religious, so according to you, the child is no better than the puppy, so why do you go for the puppy?
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
...your speration of 'human' and 'animal'...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
you said nothing about a soul, so, now, when i mention that ther are lots of things that separate humans from animals, such as us wearing clothes, going to work, earning money, playing computer games, using methods of transportation other than our own two feet, constantly inventing things to make our life easier, discussing life after death, talking about AI, trying to work out where we came from, etc... , you are just going to say "OMG! im not talking about that, i am saying that you saying humans have a soul is from religion!!oneone"<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Now who is kidding who here boggle? Its been intuitively obvious that this was about humans being supernaturaly better, in your words having a soul. You try to back up this claim by attempting to seperate animals from humans on some fundamental level that can't be explained by natural means.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->And why's that? What if an Artificial Intelegence developed and started asking questions like "Am I alive? What will when I am shut off"? That'd be pretty strong evidence that humans really aren't that special after all.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
but has it happened? No<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> If (not when) they ever create AI, it will just be like an animal. It will not prove that there is no God, it will just prove that humans are really quite clever.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
In case you ahven't noticed, we've been basing this argument around this statement. You say that AI won't be like us, but rather like the animals. You give absolutly no (non-religious) reason for this, so I am perfectly right in pointing out that you have absolutely no idea what this hypothetical AI would be like by asking the question "What if?".
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->But do they say "she's gone to a better place?" i dont think so. They are just sad because they miss them, and they loved them. Elephants have feelings too.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How would you know? Suddenly develop the ability to speak elephant? That'd be a neat trick. Again you make a statement without backing it up with a reason.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
Now had you picked a dog, then it would have required more consideration because I really like dogs, since I've grown up with them my entire life the instinctual part of my brain has been tricked into accepting dogs as a subclass of human, and as such, a member of the species worth protecting.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
ok, Lets say you are drving down a road and in the road are a puppy and a child. You have to hit one of them, you would probably go for the puppy yes?. You are not religious, so according to you, the child is no better than the puppy, so why do you go for the puppy?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
At this point? I'd probably choose to save the puppy, the more I interact with certain kinds of people the less I value the species as a whole. But lets say I did decide to go for the puppy, it would be no different then my previous statement. I'd have to think about it longer, but at the end of the day a puppy is not the same species as me. Or maybe I chose at random. Or maybe I based my descision on the potential life span of the beings in question.
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
And you say it would be like humans. You give absolutely no reason (religious or not) as to why it would be like this, so i am perfectly right in pointing out that you have absolutely no idea what this hypothetical AI would be like too.
well, look at that, a stalemate. i guess we shall have to wait and find out
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->How would you know? Suddenly develop the ability to speak elephant? That'd be a neat trick. Again you make a statement without backing it up with a reason.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i can speak elephant actually i went down to Bristol Zoo and they taught me. Elephants have no concept of an afterlife, they told me. I asked them what happens after they die and they didnt know what i was talking about.
people say this because they believe in religion and they think there is a heaven, or some other "better place". another reason they say this is to make the person who just lost a loved one feel better.
if your parent lost their job (died) and you told your best friend about it, your friend would probably say something like "oh dont worry they will find a new one, possibly an even better one." ("theyve moved on to a better place")
its nice to think of there being a better place after this so that there is no reason to fear death. and the reason most people fear death is because they dont want to leave their life, they dont want it to end.
say you had a great job and you thought you were in jeopardy of losing it, you would be afraid to lose it, right? same thing sorta.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The AI would be as interested in this discussion as much as a monkey or a dolphin <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
a human infant probably isnt very interested in reading this thread either but we dont put them in a separate category from "humans". but the baby can express sadness, anger, and other emotions, just like animals. so to say only lifeforms with complex thought have souls seems kind of strange. if that was true then abortion wouldnt be an issue with all the religious people, since a fetus doesnt question things. i dont know if we have souls or not but im not going to just throw that possiblity out of my head.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If (not when) they ever create AI, it will just be like an animal. It will not prove that there is no God, it will just prove that humans are really quite clever.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i do agree with you on this though, there very well might be one supreme being that made us all. who is to say if that being gave us the power to create intelligence? though i believe that humans are animals too, and i know you didnt mean it like that.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->but has it happened? No<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
just because something hasnt happened doesnt mean it wont. you dont believe the world is flat do you?
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->ok, Lets say you are drving down a road and in the road are a puppy and a child. You have to hit one of them, you would probably go for the puppy yes?. You are not religious, so according to you, the child is no better than the puppy, so why do you go for the puppy? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
growing up, most of us are taught not to hit other people and not to be mean. so in your split second decision on which lifeform to hit, this gets taken into account and you make your decision. another reason most people wouldnt hit the person is because jail isnt a very fun place to be and most people dont want to go there.
and it also goes back to what skulkbait said about thinking higher of your own species than others. i, myself, am not able to watch a dog if i see it running around in the middle of a busy street, just for the simple fact that i love dogs and i dont want to see one get run over. but if it came down to it i would probably hit the dog before the person, because the person has a tremendously higher chance of helping out my species than a puppy.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->There is no conclusive proof for anything, but that is a different matter entirely. Animals dont think about the afterlife because they dont have funerals. They get sad, if it is a loved one who died, but they dont gather all their freinds together, put the animal in a box and bury it. For them, Death is part of the natural cycle<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
so just because other people do something, that means that its correct? people wouldnt have funerals if they didnt think about the afterlife. if we thought about it as just the basic natural cycle i dont think people would be spending thousands of dollars on a wooden box to hold a dead person. egyptians buried loved ones with their favorite things they had while alive, so that they could have them in the afterlife. if they never would have believed there was one, do you think they would have done the same thing?
larry: "did you hear bob died?"
george: "no i didnt, im gonna miss him. i got an idea though: lets put bob in a box and bury him with his chainsaw cause he loved it and always used it, just for the heck of it."
larry: "ok, why not"
that seems a little unreasonable doesnt it?
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->And you say it would be like humans. You give absolutely no reason (religious or not) as to why it would be like this, so i am perfectly right in pointing out that you have absolutely no idea what this hypothetical AI would be like too.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
this statement is being made off of the idea that humans and animals are different. so it doesnt really count.
growing up, most of us are taught not to hit other people and not to be mean. so in your split second decision on which lifeform to hit, this gets taken into account and you make your decision. another reason most people wouldnt hit the person is because jail isnt a very fun place to be and most people dont want to go there.
and it also goes back to what skulkbait said about thinking higher of your own species than others. i, myself, am not able to watch a dog if i see it running around in the middle of a busy street, just for the simple fact that i love dogs and i dont want to see one get run over. but if it came down to it i would probably hit the dog before the person, because the person has a tremendously higher chance of helping out my species than a puppy. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
so there you go, there is a non religious reason for differentiating between humans and animals. If you hit the child, you will go to jail, if you hit the dog, you won't.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->There is no conclusive proof for anything, but that is a different matter entirely. Animals dont think about the afterlife because they dont have funerals. They get sad, if it is a loved one who died, but they dont gather all their freinds together, put the animal in a box and bury it. For them, Death is part of the natural cycle<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
so just because other people do something, that means that its correct? people wouldnt have funerals if they didnt think about the afterlife. if we thought about it as just the basic natural cycle i dont think people would be spending thousands of dollars on a wooden box to hold a dead person. egyptians buried loved ones with their favorite things they had while alive, so that they could have them in the afterlife. if they never would have believed there was one, do you think they would have done the same thing? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
my point exactly. animals dont have funerals (at least, nobody has ever seen them dress up in suits and put the dead animal in a wodden box), so they dont think about the afterlife.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->larry: "did you hear bob died?"
george: "no i didnt, im gonna miss him. i got an idea though: lets put bob in a box and bury him with his chainsaw cause he loved it and always used it, just for the heck of it."
larry: "ok, why not"
that seems a little unreasonable doesnt it?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
not at all. many ancient tribes buried their dead with the possesions from their life. i think it is pointless, but not unreasonable.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->And you say it would be like humans. You give absolutely no reason (religious or not) as to why it would be like this, so i am perfectly right in pointing out that you have absolutely no idea what this hypothetical AI would be like too.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
this statement is being made off of the idea that humans and animals are different. so it doesnt really count.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
not nescesarily. you are right, it is, but it doesnt have to be. Just because i dont include animals in the statement doesnt mean i wasnt they are different. if the AI is like humans, it would also be like animals. i just saved the time typing.
It does still count. Skulkbait was saying that i was wrong in saying it would be like humans, i am saying he doesn't know any better. The pot is calling the kettle black
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, you see. When a girl and a boy love each other very much..... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Where our souls come from? Or do we have one? Where comes the energy in our brains? It's kind of weird to think how I got my consciousnes(sp?). Did it somehow evolve or did I just open my eyes and think for the first time? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thats not fair Dread, you cant go banning religious topics and then troll for religious answers like that - us resident religious ppl do have limits - dont tempt us <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->ok, Lets say you are drving down a road and in the road are a puppy and a child. You have to hit one of them, you would probably go for the puppy yes?. You are not religious, so according to you, the child is no better than the puppy, so why do you go for the puppy? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Firstly, this is an absolutely ridiculous question - you hit the child and you'll have killed a member of your own species, you'll have to face seeing their family, and you'll face criminal prosecution. You hit the puppy and theres no consequences. This goes along with darwins theory of evolution - we strive to protect our own species.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->my point exactly. animals dont have funerals (at least, nobody has ever seen them dress up in suits and put the dead animal in a wodden box), so they dont think about the afterlife<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What? So having funerals is what makes humans think about the afterlife, and stops animals from doing so? I think you'll find its a bit deeper than that.
I beleive that a huge factor in seperating animals from humans is language. Think of our language as a computer programming language - English is a very vast language with millions of different commands, we can string these commands (words) together to form meaning and result in actions. Because human language is so vast, we have developed the ability to perform very complex actions, and it is also what allows us to remember such vast amounts of information. Now, looking at animals - they communicate through forms of language, but theirs are much more limited than ours - perhaps with 10 - 20 words (depending on species of course). Because of the limits of their language, they are unable to perform anything more complex than defined by the rules of their language, and are unable to remember anything that can not be expressed by them in their language.
So why did huamns develop such a vast language? I'm not entirely sure about this. I think our anatomy helped a huge amount in developing our intelligence, as we have bodies which are capable of performing much more complex actions that a bird or a dolphin can do - so by experimenting with our bodies we could learn new actions, and when we learn new abilitys, we need a command (a word) to describe it - hence human language (and thus intelligence) begins expanding. General human intelligence starts to expand because we can share these new actions with each other.
Why are there still apes and humans? In regard to this question, I will point you towards research carried out on brain waves. There is a particular brainwave which humans posess, but is not seen in animals - an intense pulse of electrical activity informally called the "aha!" wave. This brainwave is seen in humans when you do something like solving a puzzle or having an original idea. It is the formation of new relations between data at a high level - the ability for us create new ideas without learning them. This brainwave will have come into existance from a mutation millions of years ago, and it is a (if not THE) key difference between humans and animals today.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
if the AI is like humans, it would also be like animals. i just saved the time typing.
It does still count. Skulkbait was saying that i was wrong in saying it would be like humans, i am saying he doesn't know any better. The pot is calling the kettle black
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I hope now that you can understand why this statement is so utterly wrong. The perfect AI model will be designed to behave exactly as a human does, not an animal (Thats the whole point of AI). The two things are very different due to brain structure, and the fact that we have our vast language to power us.
Sorry to break the news to you pal, but you're nothing more than a series of electrical impulses being carried over a vast network of nerons linked together in such a way that you appear "intelligent" <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Incidentally, I am am a student at Staffrd University studying AI. I firmly beleive that we will have a perfect AI model within 20 years, probably less.