General Commanding Tips
Ape
Join Date: 2003-06-17 Member: 17448Members, Constellation
Join Date: 2003-06-17 Member: 17448Members, Constellation
<div class="IPBDescription">For newish players</div> Hey guys, just thought I'd post this here as some of you may find it useful. By no means is it a complete guide, just a few tips which may help you budding public commanders out there.
Any feedback is appreciated.
Cheers.
One of the most important aspects of commanding (especially on pubs), is communication. Without a mic, you're automatically crippling yourself. Having to stop what you're doing to punch out a long list of instructions on the keyboard (even if you're a fast typer) really isn't effective.
If you want to get serious about commanding, or playing NS in general even, get a mic.
First of all, there's no one strategy that's guaranteed to win. There are a lot of factors which come into play when trying to lead marines to victory. Just a few of these are:
<b>- What map is it?</b> | This is important, because in some maps a relocation can be very handy, on others its a death sentence. Also, some maps are much more balanced (ie veil/eclipse) than others (bast/hera).
<b>- Can your marines stick together and work as a team without being a bunch of random rambos?</b> | This is where the mic can really help. If I'm comming on pubs, I'm constantly giving out instructions. If I want a squad to move out to a certain location, I give them a waypoint and let them know vocally. If I notice some of these guys starting to wander off doing their own thing, gently remind them that they're 'going the wrong f****ing way' and to 'stick with your teammates you bunch of rambo ****s'. (It's hard to keep your cool when commanding newbies).
<b>- Can your marines aim?</b> | If not, the first thing you should do is give them L1 armour, so they can get those extra few rounds into that skitz bhopping skulk before they die. If they can aim, L1 weapons would be more advantageous.
<b>- Know the map</b> | This is easier said than done, and only comes with time. It'll take you a month or so of casual NS play to really get to know all of the hive locations, double res nodes, choke points and possible relocation areas.
<b>- Practice</b> | If you're afraid of getting flamed but you really want to comm, practice offline. Try Whichbot. Learn the hotkeys for the important buildings/weapons/items. Once you become fluent in these it's much quicker than using the mouse.
<b>- Learn the quirks of commander mode</b> | There are certain bugs which can really hamper your commanding if you aren't aware of them. I'm not sure what causes this one, but you may find that you can't drop any buildings/items/weapons etc at some stage. If this happens, move your cursor over your minimap. You may find that your field of view sticks to the cursor as you move it around the minimap. If this happens, just click once on the minimap and all will be well.
<b>- Ask experienced players</b> | If you're not sure what you should do (ie, 'Should I drop a TF here to secure double res, or should I electrify both res nodes?'). Ask any clanners/regulars that you've seen around for their advice. Ignore them if their response is 'OMG LMAO NOOB COMM EJECT EJECT ROFL!@1' If you get ejected, remember their name(s), and find another server. Or join the alien team.
<b>- Electrifying res</b> | Electrification is only useful at the start of a match, usually up until the 6 - 8 minute mark (if the aliens know what they're doing, maybe up to the 10-15 minute mark if they arent organised). Electrification is only useful vs skulks. Once the aliens get that second hive up, and/or fades start blinking around, then your electrified res won't hold up for long. It's absolutely deadly to skulks though, so for securing early res against lone skulks it's quite handy. Costly though. Much better than a TF (turret factory) + turrets in my opinion.
<b>- Build order</b> | If you're gonna stick around in MS (Marine spawn) then the standard tactic is to build an IP, then a TF right next to it. Proceed to electrify the TF. This basically makes the ip invulnerable to skulks, as long as you've placed it close enough to the TF. Depending on the size of the server and the skill of your marines, you might want to get another IP as this greatly reduces the amount of time it takes for your marines to respawn.
A lot of comms then tend to clutter up the space around the TF with an armoury, arms lab, observatory etc. Definately viable, but not always the best idea.
Specific build orders should be adaptable to what the enemy is doing. Lets say you find out the aliens have DCs (defense chambers) early on. You'd want to build an arms lab, then L1 weapons (at least) to counter the extra carapace that skulks will recieve.
I won't try and think of every strat and counter-strat out there, but I'll tell you this. If the aliens get sensory (and know where/how to use it) and you don't counter it effectively, you will have a very hard match on your hands.
The key to countering sensory is in your observatory. If you need to secure an outpost such as a hive or a dbl res node with tf/turrets/phase gate etc, it's also a very good idea to build an obs there too. The observatory possesses an inherant de-cloaking ability within a certain range (which is quite large) which instantly counters any sensory chambers that might be in the area. I advise you also get motion tracking ASAP. If your squad of marines is entering an area which you think might be infested with aliens, use your obs to SCAN. I can't push this point enough. I hardly ever see public commanders scan effectively. This is a crucial point to countering sense, especially if you dont have MT (motion tracking) yet.
Use your scans wisely though, as observatory energy takes a long time to recharge. Multiple observatories help ease this pain. It's also a wise idea to bind one or two of your obs' to a squad. To do this, select the obs, hold your crouch key and hit a number, 1 through to 5. This will assign the obs to the corresponding squad. Very easy to access the obs this way, it saves you scrolling all the way acrosss the map back to your base. I usually use squad 5 for my obs.
A few counters for a possible world of hurt:
If you notice an early fade (these guys can really chew you up if they're skilled) at the 4 - 7 minute mark, break out 2 or so shotties to marines that you KNOW can aim. Assign them to a squad. Hunt down that fade and kill it, or hurt it bloody badly so it at least treats you with some respect. Shotties > fades. HMGs are ok too, but not that useful vs blinking fades. You're unlikely to have HMGs at this early stage anyway. Shotties and HMGs are a good counter to onos too, but the fire needs to be concentrated to make them really hurt. An early onos can be a game ender if handled incorrectly, however they're such a big target that concentrated assaults can really bring them down quick. Try to lure them into open areas where your crossfire can really cut into them.
Do your best to deny aliens as much res as possible. An early squad of shotgunners is good for this, but this may be too much for public marines. Constant pressure is the best advice I can give. Try and have at least a few marines attacking all the time, but dont throw them away uselessly. Give them specific objectives. 'Take down this res point guys, then move on and secure this hive for me'. Use waypoints to punctuate your orders.
That's enough for now I think. Lemme know if there are any more specific areas which you'd like info on.
Any feedback is appreciated.
Cheers.
One of the most important aspects of commanding (especially on pubs), is communication. Without a mic, you're automatically crippling yourself. Having to stop what you're doing to punch out a long list of instructions on the keyboard (even if you're a fast typer) really isn't effective.
If you want to get serious about commanding, or playing NS in general even, get a mic.
First of all, there's no one strategy that's guaranteed to win. There are a lot of factors which come into play when trying to lead marines to victory. Just a few of these are:
<b>- What map is it?</b> | This is important, because in some maps a relocation can be very handy, on others its a death sentence. Also, some maps are much more balanced (ie veil/eclipse) than others (bast/hera).
<b>- Can your marines stick together and work as a team without being a bunch of random rambos?</b> | This is where the mic can really help. If I'm comming on pubs, I'm constantly giving out instructions. If I want a squad to move out to a certain location, I give them a waypoint and let them know vocally. If I notice some of these guys starting to wander off doing their own thing, gently remind them that they're 'going the wrong f****ing way' and to 'stick with your teammates you bunch of rambo ****s'. (It's hard to keep your cool when commanding newbies).
<b>- Can your marines aim?</b> | If not, the first thing you should do is give them L1 armour, so they can get those extra few rounds into that skitz bhopping skulk before they die. If they can aim, L1 weapons would be more advantageous.
<b>- Know the map</b> | This is easier said than done, and only comes with time. It'll take you a month or so of casual NS play to really get to know all of the hive locations, double res nodes, choke points and possible relocation areas.
<b>- Practice</b> | If you're afraid of getting flamed but you really want to comm, practice offline. Try Whichbot. Learn the hotkeys for the important buildings/weapons/items. Once you become fluent in these it's much quicker than using the mouse.
<b>- Learn the quirks of commander mode</b> | There are certain bugs which can really hamper your commanding if you aren't aware of them. I'm not sure what causes this one, but you may find that you can't drop any buildings/items/weapons etc at some stage. If this happens, move your cursor over your minimap. You may find that your field of view sticks to the cursor as you move it around the minimap. If this happens, just click once on the minimap and all will be well.
<b>- Ask experienced players</b> | If you're not sure what you should do (ie, 'Should I drop a TF here to secure double res, or should I electrify both res nodes?'). Ask any clanners/regulars that you've seen around for their advice. Ignore them if their response is 'OMG LMAO NOOB COMM EJECT EJECT ROFL!@1' If you get ejected, remember their name(s), and find another server. Or join the alien team.
<b>- Electrifying res</b> | Electrification is only useful at the start of a match, usually up until the 6 - 8 minute mark (if the aliens know what they're doing, maybe up to the 10-15 minute mark if they arent organised). Electrification is only useful vs skulks. Once the aliens get that second hive up, and/or fades start blinking around, then your electrified res won't hold up for long. It's absolutely deadly to skulks though, so for securing early res against lone skulks it's quite handy. Costly though. Much better than a TF (turret factory) + turrets in my opinion.
<b>- Build order</b> | If you're gonna stick around in MS (Marine spawn) then the standard tactic is to build an IP, then a TF right next to it. Proceed to electrify the TF. This basically makes the ip invulnerable to skulks, as long as you've placed it close enough to the TF. Depending on the size of the server and the skill of your marines, you might want to get another IP as this greatly reduces the amount of time it takes for your marines to respawn.
A lot of comms then tend to clutter up the space around the TF with an armoury, arms lab, observatory etc. Definately viable, but not always the best idea.
Specific build orders should be adaptable to what the enemy is doing. Lets say you find out the aliens have DCs (defense chambers) early on. You'd want to build an arms lab, then L1 weapons (at least) to counter the extra carapace that skulks will recieve.
I won't try and think of every strat and counter-strat out there, but I'll tell you this. If the aliens get sensory (and know where/how to use it) and you don't counter it effectively, you will have a very hard match on your hands.
The key to countering sensory is in your observatory. If you need to secure an outpost such as a hive or a dbl res node with tf/turrets/phase gate etc, it's also a very good idea to build an obs there too. The observatory possesses an inherant de-cloaking ability within a certain range (which is quite large) which instantly counters any sensory chambers that might be in the area. I advise you also get motion tracking ASAP. If your squad of marines is entering an area which you think might be infested with aliens, use your obs to SCAN. I can't push this point enough. I hardly ever see public commanders scan effectively. This is a crucial point to countering sense, especially if you dont have MT (motion tracking) yet.
Use your scans wisely though, as observatory energy takes a long time to recharge. Multiple observatories help ease this pain. It's also a wise idea to bind one or two of your obs' to a squad. To do this, select the obs, hold your crouch key and hit a number, 1 through to 5. This will assign the obs to the corresponding squad. Very easy to access the obs this way, it saves you scrolling all the way acrosss the map back to your base. I usually use squad 5 for my obs.
A few counters for a possible world of hurt:
If you notice an early fade (these guys can really chew you up if they're skilled) at the 4 - 7 minute mark, break out 2 or so shotties to marines that you KNOW can aim. Assign them to a squad. Hunt down that fade and kill it, or hurt it bloody badly so it at least treats you with some respect. Shotties > fades. HMGs are ok too, but not that useful vs blinking fades. You're unlikely to have HMGs at this early stage anyway. Shotties and HMGs are a good counter to onos too, but the fire needs to be concentrated to make them really hurt. An early onos can be a game ender if handled incorrectly, however they're such a big target that concentrated assaults can really bring them down quick. Try to lure them into open areas where your crossfire can really cut into them.
Do your best to deny aliens as much res as possible. An early squad of shotgunners is good for this, but this may be too much for public marines. Constant pressure is the best advice I can give. Try and have at least a few marines attacking all the time, but dont throw them away uselessly. Give them specific objectives. 'Take down this res point guys, then move on and secure this hive for me'. Use waypoints to punctuate your orders.
That's enough for now I think. Lemme know if there are any more specific areas which you'd like info on.
Comments
but i still see comms who go weapons first...
Wu1 first cause my marines can survive caraskulks better than with Au1
Wu2 next cause fadingtime(no really need of shotgunners),caraskulks are deadskulks
If alienteam got several lerks get Aus/no lerks,fades means faster noobyonos
If alienteam dies at this point to often and time is a 10 mins u can choose Au2
but remember if skulks are only lifeforms Au2 wont be effektive cause u need only 3 skulkbites same as Au1<--- The reason most people prefer Wus
Dont forgett to do motion track!!!!!!
who needs 13 dmg/shot if base is going down,cause the ninjas didnt realised a onos waiting outside ?
The comm refused to siege hives. The aliens had no pressures, thus could hoard to Onos and Fade, and eventually opted to rush base. GG. We relocated sometimes, due to clever vent action by myself, but it was always a losing battle.
If you intend to win with marines, you NEED to be aggressive. Get some men near a hive, and either rush it with shotties or siege it up real quick. Don't wait for the tech rush to HA - do it fast and do it early. Aliens will move to a defensive stance, and you can EASILY counter with GLs and eventually HA. As long as you keep knocking hives down, aliens have to keep rebuilding, and with 50 res to evo to gorge and drop a hive you can easily cut down on your fade and onos problem.
Make no mistake, you'll still see fades, but it'll mean undefended hives or one single hive with moderate defence.
If you sit on your backside in spawn and try to cap a few res before teching up, you're going to lose, badly. This has happened two nights on the trot in the same server, with SMART players, over 8 hour gaming sessions both nights.
In contrast, in ONE game on Lost we rushed the hive with LMGs.....and won. No upgrades, no nothing. Do not doubt the power of rine aggression.
Another note, HA is more suited for a team with you shouting at them over the mic to stay together to live. JPs seem like they should be left to the more experienced as a good lerk/fade/onos can take them down. *jps are also good for handymen* If u do have the rez coming in quickly a couple of jper are good to scout for your slowass HA.
One word to new guys, don't just jump in the com chair without either reading these forums and playing for a good couple of weeks. It takes this long just to learn the maps and the guys. Find your regular server and u'll soon know who the champs are.
To start off i build a tf next to my cc, then a ip next to it (typical), i elec the tf and build a armory. this leaves me with about 30 res left over. so i build a turret in a blind spot or a spot where it can alert the marines of any skulks nearby (gun shots). From there i build up some res towers and elect one nearest a hive. this process leaves me with a good amount of res, i usually will build up to 100 pretty fast again, so i build an arms, upgrade AU and upgrade my armory. next is the obs, i think sensory is no match for my electrified base, so i dont worry about it for a while. <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/nerd.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd.gif'><!--endemo-->
i will go in this order for upgrades, it works most time of the time(80 percent i say <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> )
Armor 1 > Weapon 1 > Armor 2 > Weapon 2 > Weapon 3 > Armor 3
You aren't wrong there mate. Aggression as marines is key to victory. Rest on your laurels and prepare to face multitudes of evil space rhinos of doom!
/concurrent post.
if you have careful, grouped rines, MT with requested scans can work really well to counter SC as well.
but in general, i'd try and setup firebases at chokepoints and such, as SC can be quite poor at attacking dug in positions (tfarms with obs)
Try to go the opposite way from the alien hive towards their empty hive, capping and electifying res towers. This way, you get an easy hive lockdown and probably 4 or 5 res towers. As long as you can hold 5 res towers, there's a good chance you'll win. On the other hand, if you are more aggressive and take the alien rts down, you force them to be skulks when you are getting the heavies. Depending on the map, you may want to immediately move for the next hive after you cap the first one. If you're lucky, it won't be heavily defended, and you can hold it until you have the res. In other words, build an eRT and phase gate and have marines stand guard in there. Once you have the res, fortify it.
The best way, in my opinion, around walls of lame is a grenade launcher. Sieges just take too long to build for some random wall of lame. This is why you want to get your armory upgrading asap. Use shotguns for fade, and say something like, "jump up and down at armory if you want to kill the fade." Onos requires teamwork to kill. However, one vanilla marine with lvl3 weapons can cause an onos to redeem.
Motion tracking helps your marines a lot, more than weapon upgrades, early on. Remember you can't scan when the obs is upgrading. If they have sensory, you'll want to build two obs anyway. Weapon and armor upgrades persist beyond the arms lab, so don't worry if it's destroyed. Heck, you can even recycle it once your proto lab is up and you're done upgrading. If you're raking in the res, build a second arms lab to speed up your upgrades.
Rushing to proto lab isn't all it's cracked up to be. It's very expensive to outfit all your marines with heavy armor and weapons. There's also no real point to it until you're finished upgrading weapons and armor. Still, get the proto lab built anyway, as it's a real boost to marine morale.
An easy way to defend an outpost is to build an eTF and phase gate next to an eRT, with a few turrets covering the blind spots. Make sure to let your marines know if aliens are attacking the base, and remind them to phase there. You can always build more turrets later when you have the resources.
Building turrets in marine base is optional. In large games, you'll always have marines in base, who can do more damage than any turret. In smaller games, you'll need them to protect from gorges building a bunch of ocs at your base, or worse yet, just bile-bombing. Turrets also make a nice obstacle course for an onos. In fact, that's probably the only reason to build them in base.
Don't bother droping meds for people unless: 1) they are in an important area, 2) they have a heavy armor or jetpack, or 3) they call for it. I always respond to medpack calls, unless the res is really hurting. However, the good players just don't bother with medpack usually. They will call for ammo though. Once you're far enough along in the game, you can drop lots of medpacks with no worries.
Generally, I drop stuff for people who ask for it. I'm more of a hands-off comm, who lets the marines organize themselves. A lot of people seem to think they know what to do, but aren't willing to sit in the comm chair to do it. Funny thing is, they'll eject someone, but won't take his place. It's not that complicated to win as marines, as long as you are attacking and killing things. However, don't bother with heavy armor if there's no organization. A jetpack would be a much better option.
If you're lucky enough to have a marine on the ground who's organizing the others, you'll have an easy job commanding. If not, you'll probably have to yell at your marines to get them to do anything. The best way to avoid this situation is to play on servers where decent players play. Comms can rarely command marines and build a base at the same time.
I recommend new comms practice using the RCBot. This bot has both marine and alien guys. Add a bot to both teams from the ready room, then wait for game to start, and then jump into marine team. If you go to marine team immediately, the game will crash. Once there, jump in comm chair and order your marine around. If he just stands around and asks for orders, he doesn't know how to get where you are ordering him to. I'd recommend practicing on ns_eclipse first, as it's not too difficult for the bots to navigate. They have a hard time with ladders and doors. In some ways, the bots are as stupid as people in real life. If see the hive, they won't listen to you and just shoot at the hive until they die. They also tend to run off after aliens. Sometimes, you'll get a marine who wont listen to any orders at all. I think it's a "rambo" feature in the bot, but I'm not 100% sure.
Remember, as a comm, you have no power to force marines to do anything. You're more like an elected official. You have to follow the desires of your team and do what they want, or you'll be ejected. The most important thing is to always do something. People will crash and/or disconnect while in the comm chair. If you're not doing anything, they'll assume that and eject you.
Ideally you want to be rushing a hive as the 2nd is building or very shortly after its done.
Tech up as fast as possible but not at the expense of offensive excursions.
Common mistakes:
2 Hive lockdown.
Looks good on paper, ingame the cost of fortifying 2 hives at the begining slows you down to much. You will lose res and sub hive to fades in the fourth 2 sixth minute if aliens are on the job.
Complacency.
So youve got 4+ res towers electrified early on and you think everythings in the bag. This is where so many commanders fail. No you cannot merrily sit there and slowly tech to lvl 3 with HA and HW. Why? becuase if aliens are playing properly you will lose all those RTs to fades and onos quicker than you can blink.
Aliens advance extremely quickly, Keeping them on 1 hive is very good but whats most essential is to KEEP THIER RES DOWN. The 2nd hive may be defended like the primary but RTs are rarely defended and should be taken out.
Emphasis on Structures.
Too many inexperienced commanders place to much faith in buildings. They try to lockdown a hive or random map location.
<You should build as few buildings as possible> -- As I said before marines have poor defence. Defence does NOT win the game for marines, offence DOES. Buildings while weak in themsevles also delay teching and offensive action.
Eg, youve just taken an empty hive, well done. Common sense means a nice res tower and seeing as its a hive a phase gate can be a good idea aswell. Oh wait whats this? a tf aswell and 5 sentrys, oh dear. An electric rt and pg is adequate defense if you want to keep the hive. Half arsed attacks can be beaten off easily if your marines are average or better. If the aliens really make an effort to take the hive from you, you will not keep it, its as simple as that, so why waste the res on it.
Summary.
Get and hold res as possbile. Keep pressure on aliens either on thier rts or hive. If you choose the hive make sure its doable as if ur team spends 5 minutes trying to kill a hive and fails then you have achived nothing in that 5 minutes while the aliens have most likely built rts/hive or accumlated res for fade/onos. Dont overbuild.
Second, before anyone says it, yes rines can defend but its a LAST GASP STRATEGY. Its a desperation move. If you have to turtle, then you're hanging on by a thread.
Just in total agreement over marine complacency - if you're not attacking a hive or res towers then you are LOSING THE GAME. You cannot afford to sit on your backside and wait for the leetzor upgradezzzzz. Aliens get Fade VERY FAST, and Onos shortly after, and all your upgrades won't stop them if they want to flatten your base.
Use some wit - take out the hives and res so that any Onos will be using ONE HIVE abilities, and when killed will be hard/impossible to replace.
If you sit on your backside, the first onos flattens your base, and while you rebuild it the other aliens have got to lerk/fade/onos and don't need to worry about capping hives or res because a simple rush will flatten you. If you keep hitting the hives, then its 50 res minimum for them to get them back up - more if you can take down some upgrade chambers too. Aliens can quickly lose a war of attrition if marines are dedicated in the assault.