<!--QuoteBegin--Impy_The_Lerk+Nov 4 2003, 03:38 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Impy_The_Lerk @ Nov 4 2003, 03:38 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> if you think primal scream has any value , youv obveously never played ns competitivly or played in clan <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Primal Scream owns you like no other. NEVER EVER UNDERESTIMATE THE DESTRUCTIVE POWER OF PRIMAL SCREAM.
Its. 250 % boost for crying out loud.
25% damage at twice the attack rate.
The only problem i have with is its very short time. But by golly you can do soooo much damage in that little time with a lerk. Even in clan matches.
Theres a reason lots of lerks can pickup 15+ kills during the last 30seconds of a game. Its primal scream.
well I don't see how you can dismiss my skills before you have even seen me play but I am a very good marine....I mean you don't have to believe me but i'll drop by linuxmonster on friday prob around 2 to 5 if you wanna play a lil...btw let's let this argument end maybe your right maybe not...maybe i'm right maybe not....it really doesn't matter all I'm stating is my personal opinion and maybe its way off but as of right now that's how I feel about this matter.
btw, my screenname is: jenson16 if u wanna play sometime
How about nerfing the spikes on the lerk, ive played as a lerk quite a bit, and i really find them cheap, they do not drain enought energy for the ammount of damage they do, marines never see what hits them, and the spikes take down a marine before he can usually take a lerk down to 50%
<span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'><span style='color:red'>CALM DOWN TOOL AND URANIUM </span>[/COLOR] </span>
now speaking seriously taking spikes away would make the only alien ranged unit more useless against ha plus shotguns would tear lerks apart so fast it isnt funny
oh and remember 1LmG <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> >1 <!--emo&::lerk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/lerk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='lerk.gif'><!--endemo--> when attacking from behind
I like the idea of spumbra/spombra. That may be the best idea yet for solving the lerk controversy <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> Poll clearly shows Bite and Spike are favorites. I think we should give spumbra a try!
...except make the lerk have 100 hp 60 armor, that idea sounds good.
Oh...and beef up spores. Wow they're useless.
Make them slow marines. Maybe it goes in their eyes and they can't see.
Lerks armed with pepper spray...
please just beef up spores somehow. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Umm...
Spores are useless?
Everyone in here who says spores should be scrapped realizes that spores are <b>THE ONLY EFFECTIVE COUNTER</b> to medspam, correct?
Here is why bite/spores/umbra/primal scream is <i>ideal</i> for lerks:
Spores/umbra/primal scream are nessesary to make the lerk the effective support unit it is. You can't get rid of these abilities, and you <b>cannont</b> combine them... a sumbra has to be the stupiest idea I've ever heard... not only would it be unbelievble strong, but it would only take the adrenaline and management of ONE attack. It would require no skill to use, and it would:
- Make your aliens near invincible... yes, umbra tends to make you invincible to marines. - Hurt marines constantly so medspam cannot be used... great. So many pubbers don't realize this, but half of the marine game is the comm, and effective medspam is where it's at. - This would be an end all ability, and it would not be fair/fun for marines AT ALL.
Why the lerk needs bite over spikes: Spikes + Spores are redundant. And this shows - why is the lerk the least popular class right now? Because the lerk gets no action? Not true, lerks can always be on the front lines. How about the fact that the lerk, if ambushed, is nearly 100% doomed to die, hell, if anything gets close to the lerk, it's screwed... the lerk has no way to defend itself. All it can do is support... this is stupid, the lerk should have some way to defend itself and provide support. This involves ditching spikes in favor of bite. Not only is this a great change, but I'm sure it will prove popular in time to come.
Uranium:
Spores being able to hurt heavies? What kinda crap is that? A 30 res creature would be supremely effective against Heavies if this were the case.. heavies have reduced speed, so spore clouds will create brick walls to the heavies. Heavies are the top of the marine tech, and as such they should be countered by the top of the alien tech... onos.
Next, I find it highly hyprocritical to claim TOOL is a poor marine player when it's obvious that you are a poor alien player who doesn't know how to work the game properly. Wanna know how to beat HA/HMG's and yes, the dread HA/SG at the two hive level?
It's simple, really. Get stomp. Make sure you have DC's and MC's. Lets say it's a 10 v 10. Makes sure you have alien teamwork.
All you need is 2 onos (3 is good as well), 1-2 lerks, at <b>least</b> two fades, and at least 3-4 gorges. If someone is a skulk for some reason, tell him to evolve to something else, at least a gorge, or at the very least to aid you in the attack. The onos and gorges should have the regen + adren abilities. Regen gives much more firepower for the onos, and allows him near unlimited stomp spam. Regen for the gorges allow them to focus on healing bigger lifeforms (remember, gorges are expendable at 10 res a pop) and adren gives unlimited healspray (major plus). Lerks should have adren + regen or cara, their choice. Lerks should only umbra. And when they umbra, they should only umbra the marines and onos. This will make it so aliens can charge the marines and get up close, and the onos stay safe. Umbra really renders all aliens invincible to all but the GL. Next, fades should have regen or cara (their choice) + adren or celerity (their choice). Their job is to move in fast and attack the stomped heavies while under the protection of umbra.
How the attack would work:
Lerks umbra an area, the onos spread out and stomp marines non-stop each with a lerk to constantly umbra them, the onos stomp, the gorges unleash healspray on all, the fades attack the stomped marines. Lerks should also umbra the HA's to give the fades cover. The fades should kill GL'ers first, as they pose the biggest threat to your smaller lifeforms and therefore your umbra protection.
Honestly, if an alien team did this to a HA team of any size, I can guarentee it WILL FALL.
And there you have it, plz learn the play the game before you whine. Alien teamwork is extreamly powerful and should never be underestimated.
<!--QuoteBegin--Impy_The_Lerk+Nov 4 2003, 03:38 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Impy_The_Lerk @ Nov 4 2003, 03:38 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--dr.d+Nov 4 2003, 03:30 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (dr.d @ Nov 4 2003, 03:30 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--devicenull+Nov 4 2003, 03:24 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (devicenull @ Nov 4 2003, 03:24 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I say Bite/Umbra/Spike/Spore (not in that order) Spikes need an inprovement, it takes forever to take anything down with them.. either lower the adren cost and cooldown, or up the damage. It should be, a turret is able to kill a normal lerk (no upgrades), by the time the lerk takes the turret down to about 1/4 - 1/2 health Bite is needed back though, I say get rid of primal scream, it is utterly worthless <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> People who think primal scream is utterly worthless is why it can take 45 minutes to kill marines with 3 hives.
PS Spumbra is the coolest name ever.
Spuuumbra, SPUUUUMBRA. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> if you think primal scream has any value , youv obveously never played ns competitivly or played in clan
thats all i can say. im sure ull dissagree... but attacks that are only usefull 5% of the time andl on ONLY pub servers.... is the definition of worthless. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes I'm referring to pub play. Flay never intented to balance the game for clanners and seeing how many clanners are quitting just shows how dedicated they are to NS. Ignoring pubbers is the same as giving up hope on NS' future.
Clan games inherinently have very good teamwork present which is absent in pub play, taking away skills that encourage teamwork will only furthre degenerate NS in public servers.
<!--QuoteBegin--dr.d+Nov 4 2003, 05:56 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (dr.d @ Nov 4 2003, 05:56 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Impy_The_Lerk+Nov 4 2003, 03:38 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Impy_The_Lerk @ Nov 4 2003, 03:38 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--dr.d+Nov 4 2003, 03:30 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (dr.d @ Nov 4 2003, 03:30 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--devicenull+Nov 4 2003, 03:24 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (devicenull @ Nov 4 2003, 03:24 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I say Bite/Umbra/Spike/Spore (not in that order) Spikes need an inprovement, it takes forever to take anything down with them.. either lower the adren cost and cooldown, or up the damage. It should be, a turret is able to kill a normal lerk (no upgrades), by the time the lerk takes the turret down to about 1/4 - 1/2 health Bite is needed back though, I say get rid of primal scream, it is utterly worthless <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> People who think primal scream is utterly worthless is why it can take 45 minutes to kill marines with 3 hives.
PS Spumbra is the coolest name ever.
Spuuumbra, SPUUUUMBRA. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> if you think primal scream has any value , youv obveously never played ns competitivly or played in clan
thats all i can say. im sure ull dissagree... but attacks that are only usefull 5% of the time andl on ONLY pub servers.... is the definition of worthless. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes I'm referring to pub play. Flay never intented to balance the game for clanners and seeing how many clanners are quitting just shows how dedicated they are to NS. Ignoring pubbers is the same as giving up hope on NS' future.
Clan games inherinently have very good teamwork present which is absent in pub play, taking away skills that encourage teamwork will only furthre degenerate NS in public servers. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> The reason why primal scream isn't used in clan play is because the game is nearly always done before the 3rd hive.
Pub games it takes awhile to round everyone up for the final attack, but for clan games it's instant. Once an advantage becomes clear - it's taken.
3 hives are an extreme rarity in clan games. In fact, 2 hives are sorta uncommon.
I mean, seriously, look at top level play of most games... how often is the #1 tech used? More often than not, the game is decided long before that sort of stuff rolls out in RTS games.
For example, Starcraft... teched up units in competetive play were there, but rare, and were used to help bring the game down to it's conclusion.
In Warcarft 3, The Frozen Throne, Teched up units happen, but not in competetive games, due to the fact that in highly competetive play styles people are much faster and more agressive, as this is the nature of the beast. People play to win, so the advantage is taken right away - they do not play to tech up to their pretty ultra unstoppable units.
umbra does not make you invincible to marines. not even close.
you can't argue about imbalances unless the code makes it imbalanced. you can add all the content you want to the game and it will be balanced, if the numbers are right.
"Wanna know how to beat HA/HMG's and yes, the dread HA/SG at the two hive level?"
what you are talking about is not even near possible in a pub, and still not very likely in a scrim/match.
<!--QuoteBegin--Forlorn+Nov 4 2003, 04:53 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Nov 4 2003, 04:53 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> How about the fact that the lerk, if ambushed, is nearly 100% doomed to die, hell, if anything gets close to the lerk, it's screwed... the lerk has no way to defend itself. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> The most ruthless of 2.0 battle lerks can fend a hardcore aimbotting rine face to face.
A good lerk can take 3 average pubbers face to face.
That is unless the got level 2 armor or a shotgun. OO nothing sucks more that flying into a rines face and realizing thats not an lmg.
One thing you have to understand is that bite isn't being added to 2.01: it's being added to 2.1. These are very different versions of NS. In NS 2.1, jetpacks are more popular for a variety of reasons which shan't be discussed here. Before lerk bite was added, jetpacks were very, very hard to stop. Even with spores, as a jetpacker I've managed to stay alive in hives for several minutes while the alien team helplessly tried to catch me, myself alone. This has little to do with skill: I'll admit I'm not the best NS player in the world, and nor do I aspire to be. Lerk bite isn't a be all end all counter to jetpackers, but it's pretty darn effective. Also, understand that the way the lerk flies, and the amount of HP it has, are very different from 1.04. This is not the same lerk bite as in 1.04.
<!--QuoteBegin--Lt. Hendrickson+Nov 4 2003, 06:12 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Lt. Hendrickson @ Nov 4 2003, 06:12 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Forlorn+Nov 4 2003, 04:53 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Nov 4 2003, 04:53 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> How about the fact that the lerk, if ambushed, is nearly 100% doomed to die, hell, if anything gets close to the lerk, it's screwed... the lerk has no way to defend itself. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> The most ruthless of 2.0 battle lerks can fend a hardcore aimbotting rine face to face.
A good lerk can take 3 average pubbers face to face.
That is unless the got level 2 armor or a shotgun. OO nothing sucks more that flying into a rines face and realizing thats not an lmg. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> If the marine's got good aim, they will kill ya... if not put you out of the fight so you must retreat to heal.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->what you are talking about is not even near possible in a pub, and still not very likely in a scrim/match.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
stomp owns heavy armor
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->umbra does not make you invincible to marines. not even close.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not invincible, but 3 times as strong is pretty damn good if you ask me
Yay my prayers have been answered <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Lt. Hendrickson+Nov 4 2003, 03:55 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Lt. Hendrickson @ Nov 4 2003, 03:55 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Impy_The_Lerk+Nov 4 2003, 03:38 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Impy_The_Lerk @ Nov 4 2003, 03:38 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> if you think primal scream has any value , youv obveously never played ns competitivly or played in clan <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Primal Scream owns you like no other. NEVER EVER UNDERESTIMATE THE DESTRUCTIVE POWER OF PRIMAL SCREAM.
Its. 250 % boost for crying out loud.
25% damage at twice the attack rate.
The only problem i have with is its very short time. But by golly you can do soooo much damage in that little time with a lerk. Even in clan matches.
Theres a reason lots of lerks can pickup 15+ kills during the last 30seconds of a game. Its primal scream. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> wrong.
it doesnt double your dammage, or boost dammage or do anything to dammage whatsoever.
it does however double your attack speed, and your movment speed.
thats all it does, im not sure where you got the dammage change idea.
and alow me to explain to you why its only usefull 5% of the time, 1) you will never in your life play a scrim/ or match that involves 3 hives (at the rare oppertunity it does happen, the game will end instantly anyway because you couldnt hold out for more then a min vs 3 hives in a scrim, as marines can never aford turrets) so scrims being out (thats 50% of the servers are clan/ scrim oriented, so thats 50%of the games primal scream will never be used in.
2) on a pub, when you finnaly get primal scream 70% of the time the game ends in roughly 2 min. at max... so that means aprox 5%of your lerk life you will actuly have the oppertunity to use primal scream.
that aside, the times u can actuly use it what does it do.
doubles your attack speed, and others attack speed: so what does that do for a lerk , umbra, and spores are shot out faster (neither stack so thats a bad thing, and totaly useless) leaving its only use on spike. so 25% of a lerks attacks are effected by primal scream in a positive way. and yes for 4 seconds u can spike twice as fast... to bad everyone else has acid rocket, xenocide, and charge.... meaning your not gonna get any of thoughs kills cus everyone else is stealing them (remember u only get primal on a pub anyway)
so... conclusion, tally up all the %'s and ull see my original figure of 5% effectifeness of primal scream , was probably 4% higher then it shoulda been
GG primal scream, you are the DEFINITION of worthless. -Impy (lerk master general) <!--emo&::lerk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/lerk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='lerk.gif'><!--endemo-->
i dont like lerk bite and now making bite/spores at hive 1 is making the lerk even more of a NON-SUPPORTER as the devs have claimed it is used for. now i wont mind if bite replaces spores but if it doesnt and replaces spikes gg the devs just un-did what they said the lerk was, besides when i go lerk i do it to stay out of close ranged combat seeing how all other classes (besides gorge which isnt meant for heavy combat) do until hive 3 where fade gets acid rocket.
hmm from what I can understand Uranium seems to be complaining that Aliens are weak and need boosting...I think we all know that this is completely and utterly incorrect.
HA is too strong? Well I read a post somewhere that said "dieing to HA trains + medspam with 2 hive aliens isn't a balance problem its called losing".
AMEN, finally people who agree with me <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
it doesnt double your dammage, or boost dammage or do anything to dammage whatsoever.
it does however double your attack speed, and your movment speed.
thats all it does, im not sure where you got the dammage change idea.
and alow me to explain to you why its only usefull 5% of the time, 1) you will never in your life play a scrim/ or match that involves 3 hives (at the rare oppertunity it does happen, the game will end instantly anyway because you couldnt hold out for more then a min vs 3 hives in a scrim, as marines can never aford turrets) so scrims being out (thats 50% of the servers are clan/ scrim oriented, so thats 50%of the games primal scream will never be used in.
2) on a pub, when you finnaly get primal scream 70% of the time the game ends in roughly 2 min. at max... so that means aprox 5%of your lerk life you will actuly have the oppertunity to use primal scream.
that aside, the times u can actuly use it what does it do.
doubles your attack speed, and others attack speed: so what does that do for a lerk , umbra, and spores are shot out faster (neither stack so thats a bad thing, and totaly useless) leaving its only use on spike. so 25% of a lerks attacks are effected by primal scream in a positive way. and yes for 4 seconds u can spike twice as fast... to bad everyone else has acid rocket, xenocide, and charge.... meaning your not gonna get any of thoughs kills cus everyone else is stealing them (remember u only get primal on a pub anyway)
so... conclusion, tally up all the %'s and ull see my original figure of 5% effectifeness of primal scream , was probably 4% higher then it shoulda been
GG primal scream, you are the DEFINITION of worthless. -Impy (lerk master general) <!--emo&::lerk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/lerk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='lerk.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I think that the idea of primal isn't to make the lerk kill more things, but rather to make your teammates (the ones that you are supporting?) move faster and attack twice as fast. If a lerk were to alternate between primal scream and umbra-ing a pack of skulks (or even just a fade) they would be a lot more effective than if the lerk were spiking away at some heavies, or even sporing the armory. Primal Scream isn't about making the screamer better, it's there to make the units around it better. Imagine how deadly a pack of lerks would be if one would scream and umbra them and the others would just spike marines? Oh wait, that's teamwork! Nevermind. That isn't what this game is about.
As for the shotgun-type spike thing, how about instead of that we something more like a "super spike" where it shoots out a real nasty stream of spikes for a huge adrenaline hit? I mean, I think it should take down more energy than a gorge's bile bomb.
<!--QuoteBegin--Forlorn+Nov 4 2003, 05:45 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Nov 4 2003, 05:45 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> If the marine's got good aim, they will kill ya... if not put you out of the fight so you must retreat to heal. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> The average lerk yeah, but the top ones CAN and usually will take even the best of rines one on one in their face(untill about level 2 armor and guns come out).
That is unless like you said ambushed = gg lerk.
Regardless of skill, it is advised to avoid up close confrentations unless you can afford a new lerk as the slightlest slip up, (ie hitting a obstruction) = death.
it doesnt double your dammage, or boost dammage or do anything to dammage whatsoever. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> unless its been changed since the 2.0 client side patch then it does by 25%. Try it out in a lan by yourself with the number things displayed. All attacks increase by 25%.
Ah perhaps this is why you underestimate primal scream.
And in your case of primal scream, things not coming out till 3 hives, basically your saying all 3 hive abilities are useless so why does it matter.
It think you need to compare the ability to the other from when you have it, not how long you have in which case primal scream is right up there with xenocide and acid rocket and such. Not really as a stand alone, but smart lerks scream before all xenocides to increase damage, and same before acid rockets and such, and increase the streanth of an entire team by 250% is ten times better than a single ability that makes a lerk alone slighty better than now.
O and all aliens for sure move faster.
Ive also heard although never confirming there being a energy recovery rate increase to compensate for the double attack speed.
probably the biggest plus of lerk bite is the ability to destroy a structure before tomorrow. Which is also a downside when res is electrified. No way to spike em down now. However most lerks dont bother spiking towers down unless they really need to.
And another issue about the health, i think it should be raised jsut enough so that one pistol clip cant kill it, cause dam ITS SOOOOO EASY TO kill a lerk with a pistol becasue of hl lag compensation.
I can still picture impy raping my lerk in the vent above ns_caged twice in row with pistol cause of hl lag compenation. thx the gods of ns our team was rich as hell.
In 2.1o, there is no spike ability. It has replaced spikes. This is a playtesting build. It does not mean it will be in the final, but the reception has been good. The lerk will probably be changed as the testing goes on, but for now yes, bite has replaced spikes in 2.1.
<!--QuoteBegin--Walt+Nov 4 2003, 11:38 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Walt @ Nov 4 2003, 11:38 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> In 2.1o, there is no spike ability. It has replaced spikes. This is a playtesting build. It does not mean it will be in the final, but the reception has been good. The lerk will probably be changed as the testing goes on, but for now yes, bite has replaced spikes in 2.1. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Hope it stays this way, I really do,,,
<!--QuoteBegin--Forlorn+Nov 4 2003, 11:02 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Nov 4 2003, 11:02 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Walt+Nov 4 2003, 11:38 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Walt @ Nov 4 2003, 11:38 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> In 2.1o, there is no spike ability. It has replaced spikes. This is a playtesting build. It does not mean it will be in the final, but the reception has been good. The lerk will probably be changed as the testing goes on, but for now yes, bite has replaced spikes in 2.1. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Hope it stays this way, I really do,,, <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I hope it doesnt... i really do...
"Next, I find it highly hyprocritical to claim TOOL is a poor marine player when it's obvious that you are a poor alien player who doesn't know how to work the game properly."
I find it ironic you are calling Uranium a poor alien player in that statement.
Comments
if you think primal scream has any value , youv obveously never played ns competitivly or played in clan
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Primal Scream owns you like no other. NEVER EVER UNDERESTIMATE THE DESTRUCTIVE POWER OF PRIMAL SCREAM.
Its. 250 % boost for crying out loud.
25% damage at twice the attack rate.
The only problem i have with is its very short time. But by golly you can do soooo much damage in that little time with a lerk. Even in clan matches.
Theres a reason lots of lerks can pickup 15+ kills during the last 30seconds of a game. Its primal scream.
btw, my screenname is: jenson16 if u wanna play sometime
bring back 1.04 lerk! no speed caps!
...except make the lerk have 100 hp 60 armor, that idea sounds good.
Oh...and beef up spores. Wow they're useless.
Make them slow marines. Maybe it goes in their eyes and they can't see.
Lerks armed with pepper spray...
please just beef up spores somehow.
bring back bite!
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now speaking seriously taking spikes away would make the only alien ranged unit more useless against ha plus shotguns would tear lerks apart so fast it isnt funny
oh and remember 1LmG <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> >1 <!--emo&::lerk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/lerk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='lerk.gif'><!--endemo--> when attacking from behind
bring back 1.04 lerk! no speed caps!
...except make the lerk have 100 hp 60 armor, that idea sounds good.
Oh...and beef up spores. Wow they're useless.
Make them slow marines. Maybe it goes in their eyes and they can't see.
Lerks armed with pepper spray...
please just beef up spores somehow. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Umm...
Spores are useless?
Everyone in here who says spores should be scrapped realizes that spores are <b>THE ONLY EFFECTIVE COUNTER</b> to medspam, correct?
Here is why bite/spores/umbra/primal scream is <i>ideal</i> for lerks:
Spores/umbra/primal scream are nessesary to make the lerk the effective support unit it is. You can't get rid of these abilities, and you <b>cannont</b> combine them... a sumbra has to be the stupiest idea I've ever heard... not only would it be unbelievble strong, but it would only take the adrenaline and management of ONE attack. It would require no skill to use, and it would:
- Make your aliens near invincible... yes, umbra tends to make you invincible to marines.
- Hurt marines constantly so medspam cannot be used... great. So many pubbers don't realize this, but half of the marine game is the comm, and effective medspam is where it's at.
- This would be an end all ability, and it would not be fair/fun for marines AT ALL.
Why the lerk needs bite over spikes: Spikes + Spores are redundant. And this shows - why is the lerk the least popular class right now? Because the lerk gets no action? Not true, lerks can always be on the front lines. How about the fact that the lerk, if ambushed, is nearly 100% doomed to die, hell, if anything gets close to the lerk, it's screwed... the lerk has no way to defend itself. All it can do is support... this is stupid, the lerk should have some way to defend itself and provide support. This involves ditching spikes in favor of bite. Not only is this a great change, but I'm sure it will prove popular in time to come.
Uranium:
Spores being able to hurt heavies? What kinda crap is that? A 30 res creature would be supremely effective against Heavies if this were the case.. heavies have reduced speed, so spore clouds will create brick walls to the heavies. Heavies are the top of the marine tech, and as such they should be countered by the top of the alien tech... onos.
Next, I find it highly hyprocritical to claim TOOL is a poor marine player when it's obvious that you are a poor alien player who doesn't know how to work the game properly. Wanna know how to beat HA/HMG's and yes, the dread HA/SG at the two hive level?
It's simple, really. Get stomp. Make sure you have DC's and MC's. Lets say it's a 10 v 10. Makes sure you have alien teamwork.
All you need is 2 onos (3 is good as well), 1-2 lerks, at <b>least</b> two fades, and at least 3-4 gorges. If someone is a skulk for some reason, tell him to evolve to something else, at least a gorge, or at the very least to aid you in the attack. The onos and gorges should have the regen + adren abilities. Regen gives much more firepower for the onos, and allows him near unlimited stomp spam. Regen for the gorges allow them to focus on healing bigger lifeforms (remember, gorges are expendable at 10 res a pop) and adren gives unlimited healspray (major plus). Lerks should have adren + regen or cara, their choice. Lerks should only umbra. And when they umbra, they should only umbra the marines and onos. This will make it so aliens can charge the marines and get up close, and the onos stay safe. Umbra really renders all aliens invincible to all but the GL. Next, fades should have regen or cara (their choice) + adren or celerity (their choice). Their job is to move in fast and attack the stomped heavies while under the protection of umbra.
How the attack would work:
Lerks umbra an area, the onos spread out and stomp marines non-stop each with a lerk to constantly umbra them, the onos stomp, the gorges unleash healspray on all, the fades attack the stomped marines. Lerks should also umbra the HA's to give the fades cover. The fades should kill GL'ers first, as they pose the biggest threat to your smaller lifeforms and therefore your umbra protection.
Honestly, if an alien team did this to a HA team of any size, I can guarentee it WILL FALL.
And there you have it, plz learn the play the game before you whine. Alien teamwork is extreamly powerful and should never be underestimated.
Bite/Umbra/Spike/Spore (not in that order)
Spikes need an inprovement, it takes forever to take anything down with them.. either lower the adren cost and cooldown, or up the damage.
It should be, a turret is able to kill a normal lerk (no upgrades), by the time the lerk takes the turret down to about 1/4 - 1/2 health
Bite is needed back though, I say get rid of primal scream, it is utterly worthless <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
People who think primal scream is utterly worthless is why it can take 45 minutes to kill marines with 3 hives.
PS Spumbra is the coolest name ever.
Spuuumbra, SPUUUUMBRA. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
if you think primal scream has any value , youv obveously never played ns competitivly or played in clan
thats all i can say. im sure ull dissagree... but attacks that are only usefull 5% of the time andl on ONLY pub servers.... is the definition of worthless. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes I'm referring to pub play. Flay never intented to balance the game for clanners and seeing how many clanners are quitting just shows how dedicated they are to NS. Ignoring pubbers is the same as giving up hope on NS' future.
Clan games inherinently have very good teamwork present which is absent in pub play, taking away skills that encourage teamwork will only furthre degenerate NS in public servers.
Bite/Umbra/Spike/Spore (not in that order)
Spikes need an inprovement, it takes forever to take anything down with them.. either lower the adren cost and cooldown, or up the damage.
It should be, a turret is able to kill a normal lerk (no upgrades), by the time the lerk takes the turret down to about 1/4 - 1/2 health
Bite is needed back though, I say get rid of primal scream, it is utterly worthless <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
People who think primal scream is utterly worthless is why it can take 45 minutes to kill marines with 3 hives.
PS Spumbra is the coolest name ever.
Spuuumbra, SPUUUUMBRA. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
if you think primal scream has any value , youv obveously never played ns competitivly or played in clan
thats all i can say. im sure ull dissagree... but attacks that are only usefull 5% of the time andl on ONLY pub servers.... is the definition of worthless. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes I'm referring to pub play. Flay never intented to balance the game for clanners and seeing how many clanners are quitting just shows how dedicated they are to NS. Ignoring pubbers is the same as giving up hope on NS' future.
Clan games inherinently have very good teamwork present which is absent in pub play, taking away skills that encourage teamwork will only furthre degenerate NS in public servers. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
The reason why primal scream isn't used in clan play is because the game is nearly always done before the 3rd hive.
Pub games it takes awhile to round everyone up for the final attack, but for clan games it's instant. Once an advantage becomes clear - it's taken.
3 hives are an extreme rarity in clan games. In fact, 2 hives are sorta uncommon.
I mean, seriously, look at top level play of most games... how often is the #1 tech used? More often than not, the game is decided long before that sort of stuff rolls out in RTS games.
For example, Starcraft... teched up units in competetive play were there, but rare, and were used to help bring the game down to it's conclusion.
In Warcarft 3, The Frozen Throne, Teched up units happen, but not in competetive games, due to the fact that in highly competetive play styles people are much faster and more agressive, as this is the nature of the beast. People play to win, so the advantage is taken right away - they do not play to tech up to their pretty ultra unstoppable units.
umbra does not make you invincible to marines. not even close.
you can't argue about imbalances unless the code makes it imbalanced. you can add all the content you want to the game and it will be balanced, if the numbers are right.
"Wanna know how to beat HA/HMG's and yes, the dread HA/SG at the two hive level?"
what you are talking about is not even near possible in a pub, and still not very likely in a scrim/match.
The most ruthless of 2.0 battle lerks can fend a hardcore aimbotting rine face to face.
A good lerk can take 3 average pubbers face to face.
That is unless the got level 2 armor or a shotgun. OO nothing sucks more that flying into a rines face and realizing thats not an lmg.
The most ruthless of 2.0 battle lerks can fend a hardcore aimbotting rine face to face.
A good lerk can take 3 average pubbers face to face.
That is unless the got level 2 armor or a shotgun. OO nothing sucks more that flying into a rines face and realizing thats not an lmg. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
If the marine's got good aim, they will kill ya... if not put you out of the fight so you must retreat to heal.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->what you are talking about is not even near possible in a pub, and still not very likely in a scrim/match.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
stomp owns heavy armor
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->umbra does not make you invincible to marines. not even close.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not invincible, but 3 times as strong is pretty damn good if you ask me
Yay my prayers have been answered <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo-->
if you think primal scream has any value , youv obveously never played ns competitivly or played in clan
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Primal Scream owns you like no other. NEVER EVER UNDERESTIMATE THE DESTRUCTIVE POWER OF PRIMAL SCREAM.
Its. 250 % boost for crying out loud.
25% damage at twice the attack rate.
The only problem i have with is its very short time. But by golly you can do soooo much damage in that little time with a lerk. Even in clan matches.
Theres a reason lots of lerks can pickup 15+ kills during the last 30seconds of a game. Its primal scream. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
wrong.
it doesnt double your dammage, or boost dammage or do anything to dammage whatsoever.
it does however double your attack speed, and your movment speed.
thats all it does, im not sure where you got the dammage change idea.
and alow me to explain to you why its only usefull 5% of the time,
1) you will never in your life play a scrim/ or match that involves 3 hives (at the rare oppertunity it does happen, the game will end instantly anyway because you couldnt hold out for more then a min vs 3 hives in a scrim, as marines can never aford turrets)
so scrims being out (thats 50% of the servers are clan/ scrim oriented, so thats 50%of the games primal scream will never be used in.
2) on a pub, when you finnaly get primal scream 70% of the time the game ends in roughly 2 min. at max...
so that means aprox 5%of your lerk life you will actuly have the oppertunity to use primal scream.
that aside, the times u can actuly use it what does it do.
doubles your attack speed, and others attack speed:
so what does that do for a lerk , umbra, and spores are shot out faster (neither stack so thats a bad thing, and totaly useless)
leaving its only use on spike.
so 25% of a lerks attacks are effected by primal scream in a positive way.
and yes for 4 seconds u can spike twice as fast... to bad everyone else has acid rocket, xenocide, and charge.... meaning your not gonna get any of thoughs kills cus everyone else is stealing them (remember u only get primal on a pub anyway)
so... conclusion, tally up all the %'s and ull see my original figure of 5% effectifeness of primal scream , was probably 4% higher then it shoulda been
GG primal scream, you are the DEFINITION of worthless.
-Impy (lerk master general) <!--emo&::lerk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/lerk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='lerk.gif'><!--endemo-->
HA is too strong? Well I read a post somewhere that said "dieing to HA trains + medspam with 2 hive aliens isn't a balance problem its called losing".
it doesnt double your dammage, or boost dammage or do anything to dammage whatsoever.
it does however double your attack speed, and your movment speed.
thats all it does, im not sure where you got the dammage change idea.
and alow me to explain to you why its only usefull 5% of the time,
1) you will never in your life play a scrim/ or match that involves 3 hives (at the rare oppertunity it does happen, the game will end instantly anyway because you couldnt hold out for more then a min vs 3 hives in a scrim, as marines can never aford turrets)
so scrims being out (thats 50% of the servers are clan/ scrim oriented, so thats 50%of the games primal scream will never be used in.
2) on a pub, when you finnaly get primal scream 70% of the time the game ends in roughly 2 min. at max...
so that means aprox 5%of your lerk life you will actuly have the oppertunity to use primal scream.
that aside, the times u can actuly use it what does it do.
doubles your attack speed, and others attack speed:
so what does that do for a lerk , umbra, and spores are shot out faster (neither stack so thats a bad thing, and totaly useless)
leaving its only use on spike.
so 25% of a lerks attacks are effected by primal scream in a positive way.
and yes for 4 seconds u can spike twice as fast... to bad everyone else has acid rocket, xenocide, and charge.... meaning your not gonna get any of thoughs kills cus everyone else is stealing them (remember u only get primal on a pub anyway)
so... conclusion, tally up all the %'s and ull see my original figure of 5% effectifeness of primal scream , was probably 4% higher then it shoulda been
GG primal scream, you are the DEFINITION of worthless.
-Impy (lerk master general) <!--emo&::lerk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/lerk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='lerk.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think that the idea of primal isn't to make the lerk kill more things, but rather to make your teammates (the ones that you are supporting?) move faster and attack twice as fast.
If a lerk were to alternate between primal scream and umbra-ing a pack of skulks (or even just a fade) they would be a lot more effective than if the lerk were spiking away at some heavies, or even sporing the armory.
Primal Scream isn't about making the screamer better, it's there to make the units around it better. Imagine how deadly a pack of lerks would be if one would scream and umbra them and the others would just spike marines?
Oh wait, that's teamwork! Nevermind. That isn't what this game is about.
As for the shotgun-type spike thing, how about instead of that we something more like a "super spike" where it shoots out a real nasty stream of spikes for a huge adrenaline hit? I mean, I think it should take down more energy than a gorge's bile bomb.
If the marine's got good aim, they will kill ya... if not put you out of the fight so you must retreat to heal.
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The average lerk yeah, but the top ones CAN and usually will take even the best of rines one on one in their face(untill about level 2 armor and guns come out).
That is unless like you said ambushed = gg lerk.
Regardless of skill, it is advised to avoid up close confrentations unless you can afford a new lerk as the slightlest slip up, (ie hitting a obstruction) = death.
it doesnt double your dammage, or boost dammage or do anything to dammage whatsoever.
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unless its been changed since the 2.0 client side patch then it does by 25%. Try it out in a lan by yourself with the number things displayed. All attacks increase by 25%.
Ah perhaps this is why you underestimate primal scream.
And in your case of primal scream, things not coming out till 3 hives, basically your saying all 3 hive abilities are useless so why does it matter.
It think you need to compare the ability to the other from when you have it, not how long you have in which case primal scream is right up there with xenocide and acid rocket and such. Not really as a stand alone, but smart lerks scream before all xenocides to increase damage, and same before acid rockets and such, and increase the streanth of an entire team by 250% is ten times better than a single ability that makes a lerk alone slighty better than now.
O and all aliens for sure move faster.
Ive also heard although never confirming there being a energy recovery rate increase to compensate for the double attack speed.
probably the biggest plus of lerk bite is the ability to destroy a structure before tomorrow. Which is also a downside when res is electrified. No way to spike em down now. However most lerks dont bother spiking towers down unless they really need to.
I can still picture impy raping my lerk in the vent above ns_caged twice in row with pistol cause of hl lag compenation. thx the gods of ns our team was rich as hell.
Hope it stays this way, I really do,,,
Welcome elite player lerk.
Hope it stays this way, I really do,,, <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I hope it doesnt... i really do...
"Next, I find it highly hyprocritical to claim TOOL is a poor marine player when it's obvious that you are a poor alien player who doesn't know how to work the game properly."
I find it ironic you are calling Uranium a poor alien player in that statement.