Changes For The Next Update
WinnieThePooh
Join Date: 2003-11-04 Member: 22300Members
Join Date: 2003-11-04 Member: 22300Members
Ok, so there has been a lot of talk and controversy about what should be changed in the next update and what shouldn't have been changed in last ones.
Personally, as far as balance goes and all of the issues concerning teams, I think that the marines should have the extra player when there is one, (i.e. 9v8) but when the teams are even, there is no reason why the marines cant win. It does require organization and coordination on the comms part, but it also requires a lot of organization on the troops part. If no one works together, then there is *little* hope. But I have commed several games, and when I have, I noticed that with a team of guys that are all serious and will follow orders, the game can really go either way, and it will depend on the strategy put forth by the comm, and the skill level displayed by the troops.
As per the lerk which has been a huge discussion, I think that in terms of effectiveness, it should have the spike shooter, but in terms of realness, it should have the bite. There aren't many birds that can shoot things!?!? But then again, it isnt a bird, its an alien, and thus who is to say what is wrong or right.
Where the marines effectiveness are concerned, I am quite pleased with many of the recent changes, except for the fact that they can't run at more than one speed. Where NS has become good in working out every little detail, I am so mad that they have missed this very large flaw. Personally, if I saw a 3 ton alien rhino looking beast coming at me, I would definitely not turn around and jog away. I would probably drop most of my stuff, (gear) and haul **** in any direction away from it. But for some reason in the game, you can't and the onos will outrun you despite whether or not it has celerity. I mean, come on guys. So much time dedicated to this game, and so many details and minor things worked out, but for some reason, the marines can not move faster than a slow jog?!?! I understand that this is not easy to remedy, but it is something which should be open for discussion and possibly change in the next updates. Maybe even something simple like in Day Of Defeat, where they can move at a jog pace, like in NS, or they can put their weapons down and sprint, but run out of energy. This might be effective, because often times, the marines will have a place nearby to retreat to that would help them.
But this is not just for running away from aliens. How about when you have to get to somewhere quickly because a building is being attacked. Would you still "jog" at the same calm and controlled pace? I would think you might book it there as fast as possible. Or how about running by a room with OC's in it.
I think that this would be a good idea. In moderation of course. But nevertheless, it is something which I hope to see some discussion about and some opinions expressed.
Lastly - I know I am asking for a lot, and that many games have progressed over a long period of time, and NS is still a baby in comparisson - but I think that one thing which really makes the aliens too strong is that fact that bullets don't slow them. When a marine is being shot by a lerk, he will move slower because of the "pain". When a skulk gets 10 rounds put into it, it runs at you the same speed the entire time. This is something which might help lend balance to the game, as everyone seems to find it one sided (aliens).
I know that there is a possiblity that some of these things may have been tried in mods and may have failed, or made things too unbalanced, but I am at least hoping for some insight as to why or why not they can not be added to the game.
Thanks guys,
Winnie The Pooh
Personally, as far as balance goes and all of the issues concerning teams, I think that the marines should have the extra player when there is one, (i.e. 9v8) but when the teams are even, there is no reason why the marines cant win. It does require organization and coordination on the comms part, but it also requires a lot of organization on the troops part. If no one works together, then there is *little* hope. But I have commed several games, and when I have, I noticed that with a team of guys that are all serious and will follow orders, the game can really go either way, and it will depend on the strategy put forth by the comm, and the skill level displayed by the troops.
As per the lerk which has been a huge discussion, I think that in terms of effectiveness, it should have the spike shooter, but in terms of realness, it should have the bite. There aren't many birds that can shoot things!?!? But then again, it isnt a bird, its an alien, and thus who is to say what is wrong or right.
Where the marines effectiveness are concerned, I am quite pleased with many of the recent changes, except for the fact that they can't run at more than one speed. Where NS has become good in working out every little detail, I am so mad that they have missed this very large flaw. Personally, if I saw a 3 ton alien rhino looking beast coming at me, I would definitely not turn around and jog away. I would probably drop most of my stuff, (gear) and haul **** in any direction away from it. But for some reason in the game, you can't and the onos will outrun you despite whether or not it has celerity. I mean, come on guys. So much time dedicated to this game, and so many details and minor things worked out, but for some reason, the marines can not move faster than a slow jog?!?! I understand that this is not easy to remedy, but it is something which should be open for discussion and possibly change in the next updates. Maybe even something simple like in Day Of Defeat, where they can move at a jog pace, like in NS, or they can put their weapons down and sprint, but run out of energy. This might be effective, because often times, the marines will have a place nearby to retreat to that would help them.
But this is not just for running away from aliens. How about when you have to get to somewhere quickly because a building is being attacked. Would you still "jog" at the same calm and controlled pace? I would think you might book it there as fast as possible. Or how about running by a room with OC's in it.
I think that this would be a good idea. In moderation of course. But nevertheless, it is something which I hope to see some discussion about and some opinions expressed.
Lastly - I know I am asking for a lot, and that many games have progressed over a long period of time, and NS is still a baby in comparisson - but I think that one thing which really makes the aliens too strong is that fact that bullets don't slow them. When a marine is being shot by a lerk, he will move slower because of the "pain". When a skulk gets 10 rounds put into it, it runs at you the same speed the entire time. This is something which might help lend balance to the game, as everyone seems to find it one sided (aliens).
I know that there is a possiblity that some of these things may have been tried in mods and may have failed, or made things too unbalanced, but I am at least hoping for some insight as to why or why not they can not be added to the game.
Thanks guys,
Winnie The Pooh
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
I didn't really understand what you were talking about, or the point of your post, or if this was some sort of suggestion post in disguise, but I had to say that this is incorrect - marines don't slow down from lerk spikes.
As per the slowness, unless they changed it back recently, I was quite sure that when being shot, you were slowed down.
Nope. I've never seen any such thing.
"Flee in terror" ability
It's upgraded at the IP at a cost of 0 res, 0 time to build and simply means if pressed - a marine throws all of his equipment off and runs very quickly away.
<!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
"Flee in terror" ability
It's upgraded at the IP at a cost of 0 res, 0 time to build and simply means if pressed - a marine throws all of his equipment off and runs very quickly away.
<!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I hope the marine that does that doesn't get any new equipment by the commander and can't hit aliens with his fists. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Hm, I want to see you running away from a rhino <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
A rhino can run 50km/h (31miles?)...
PS: if you had any serious suggestions you could put them in the <b><i>SUGGESTIONS FORUM</i></b>
OH MY GOD WORST IDEA EVER. If this was implemented I would quit NS.
And no... a standard (non-HA) Marine can outrun a non-Celerity Onos if running forward-away from them. But a celerity one will catch up. A Marine running backward away from an Onos (to keep shooting at it) will easily be caught by an Onos of any type, and be summarily eaten for their sheer stupidity.
In short, your basic suppositions for writing this post are incorrect, and should have been posed more as questions than complaints.
<span style='color:white'>I'll let this one slip, but the next time you feel offended, report the post instead of flaming, or you'll have a nice time-out to read through the forum rules more carefully.</span>
That said, I am not trying to say what is wrong with the game, I am merely trying to open up these topics for discussion, because personally, when playing, these are all things that I think about. Like why the marines can't run faster, and how, if they could, it might affect the gameplay. Skulks can leap long distances, very quickly, Fades can blink in and out of a room almost instantly, a lerk, once they get moving a little can fly extremely fast, and an onos can charge, making them sprint. Meanwhile, a marine is still left to jog around the map at the same speed, doomed to be outrun by pretty much every opponent, barring the gorge that does not have celerity.
As far as being slowed when getting hit. Is it such a bad idea? How could you possibly say how bad of an idea it is unless you were to try it. What about the possiblity of marines running into a hive with shotguns, and despite being hit by Offense Chambers and lerks spikes/spores, they still manage to take down a hive because the damage they take has no debilitating effects?? If you were choking to death (spores) how effectively could you shoot and think? Who is to say unless they have atually had it happen to them, but you could possibly imagine.
And again, whether or not realism is a good thing or a bad thing, is not for anyone to decide. We can all have our own opinions on these things and no one can say we are wrong, so try to respect that. What makes counterstrike so appealing? The fact that when a person dies, they do not return, much like real life? The effects of hitting people in the face as oppose to the chest, therefore making the people better at aiming more respected players? Or maybe it is the realistic recreation of the guns and their respective effects?
And if anyone is thinking about replying to this saying that "aliens aren't real" or some stupid **** like that, just stop now. Because aliens may or may not be real, and they may or may not look like the ones in the game (although the possibilities are very very slim), I couldn't care what you have to say about that for obvious reasons. But making the game as real as possible in terms of gameplay might be a good thing, in my opinion. It might be what would really help to make it one of the best mods for half life.
I write too much....
Winnie
Ok, first off, you're an idiot and shouldn't be posting here for saying something so stupid.
Secondly, I am not suggesting that a marine "stops in place for a second after jumping." When you jump, do you stop immediately after??? If so, I would suggest that you get some help, it doesn't even have to be professional help. And why would you put wheels on the comm chair? Please show me in my post where I suggested anything even remotely resembling that point.
So if you want to be an idiot, do it somewhere else. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Uh... he was being sarcastic. He was giving an (extremely exaggerated) example of some of the more stupid suggestions for NS, most of which seem to have come from ex-CS players.
The AK47, riot shield and stopping for a second after jumping come from 12 year-old CS (counter-strike if you haven't guessed by now), which is why he said it.
He was implying you want NS to be more like CS (and most NS players think CS is a big pile of poo frankly).
As for your actual suggestion... I don't know. I'm not sure if a skulk actually feels pain (why would a creature designed solely for killing with no regard for itself need a pain mechanism?) but it certainly feels the impact of the bullets, so I can see where you're coming from.
Unfortunatly, I don't think most players would like this idea, since, as previously mentioned; <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Gameplay > realism<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Also please note that with a postcount of 3 no-one will take you seriously. Sad but true.
As per the quote, I know that he was being sarcastic, but he was making fun of me, implying that I want it to be like counterstirke. I don't, I stopped playing counterstrike a long time ago because of it's repetitiveness and lack of strategy.
I want the game to still experience a certain amount of realism to make it fun to play.
And as for the skulks being bread solely for the purpose of killing, I am no doctor, but I don't believe that anything could still funciton properly without having nerves. If it didnt have nerves, it couldnt feel the ground that it is on, and therefore it couldnt move its body properly/if at all. I believe that is what happens when a person is paralyzed, that they lose feeling in the their legs because of something to do with their nerves?!?! But anyway, I dont think that you could feel anything if you didnt feel pain, because pain is a very high level of feeling...
So anyway, yeah, I still stand behind my opinion.
Winnie
As far as the marines are concerned I'm pretty sure them wearing nanite armor has something to do with the fact that they don't succumb to "stopping power" as this takes place some time into the future I assume they have come a long way since kevlar.
Nice attempt suggestions if a little bit of flawed logic.
Sounds like 2.01.....
Really now, people just love to talk about the next version.
<li>The discussion basically centered around a suggestion, which means it's in the wrong forum.
<li>The suggestion is not only known, it was also tried in multiple testbuilds, with disastrous effects for the alien side.
<li>The atmosphere in here got entirely too hostile.