How Do U Play As Comm?
Gira
Join Date: 2003-11-08 Member: 22405Members
Join Date: 2003-11-08 Member: 22405Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Various Way to be called as a nb comm</div> Sup?
First of all, I´m from Brazil and One of the things that I really hate in our NS is that every comm has a diferent way of playing is considered a NB. For example:
When I enter as a Comm, I do so:
2 IPs (Aliens mostly make base rush)
1 Armory (Can be changed by TF)
1 TF (I don´t do It, but i guess it be OK being eletrified)
X Turret (Enough til I say the Base is safe)
The problem is: After I put the second IP and the armory, there is always someone that says "Eject the comm.l It´s Newbie one."
One thing they don´t understand is that every comm plays a diferent way.
What do u guys thing about this, and how do u ussually play as comm?
First of all, I´m from Brazil and One of the things that I really hate in our NS is that every comm has a diferent way of playing is considered a NB. For example:
When I enter as a Comm, I do so:
2 IPs (Aliens mostly make base rush)
1 Armory (Can be changed by TF)
1 TF (I don´t do It, but i guess it be OK being eletrified)
X Turret (Enough til I say the Base is safe)
The problem is: After I put the second IP and the armory, there is always someone that says "Eject the comm.l It´s Newbie one."
One thing they don´t understand is that every comm plays a diferent way.
What do u guys thing about this, and how do u ussually play as comm?
Comments
I know what you mean tho, about ppl thinking you are a noob, i like to let any comm prove his worth, if he does an unusual strat and it works then that is something i have learnt and can use again.
give em a chance.
The three top things that will make me lose faith in the Com:
1. No communication. A com that just jumps in and drop stuff without communicating a plan or giving any instructions isn't really a Commander at all.
2. TF + turrets in base immediatly. If he *Starts off* with building this he is basically saying "I don't trust you Marines to be able to defend base". Not only that, but he is putting res into static defense that could be put into expansion.
3. Wu1 first. Com's getting Weapons Upgrade before Armor1 just gives me a bad feeling all around. I feel vulnerable as Marine until we get armor, and I suspect the Com of not fully grasping the game mechanics.
Generally "turtling" is considered an uneffective strategy and "n00bish" since it's frankly what most newbies think will work. "I have to defend my base... then I'll take another res node and defend that.. and in the end I will have the whole map defended". I don't think I need to point out that that doesn't work in practise. Good Com's tend to focus on attacking and upgrading, and put effort into hurting the enemy. Bad com's tend to focus on defense and keeping the enemy from hurting him, not always realising that the best way to do that is to constantly hurt the enemy.
So, if you don't want to be called a newb com, I suggest you either change your strategy or start communicating (convincingly).
The three top things that will make me lose faith in the Com:
1. No communication. A com that just jumps in and drop stuff without communicating a plan or giving any instructions isn't really a Commander at all.
2. TF + turrets in base immediatly. If he *Starts off* with building this he is basically saying "I don't trust you Marines to be able to defend base". Not only that, but he is putting res into static defense that could be put into expansion.
3. Wu1 first. Com's getting Weapons Upgrade before Armor1 just gives me a bad feeling all around. I feel vulnerable as Marine until we get armor, and I suspect the Com of not fully grasping the game mechanics.
Generally "turtling" is considered an uneffective strategy and "n00bish" since it's frankly what most newbies think will work. "I have to defend my base... then I'll take another res node and defend that.. and in the end I will have the whole map defended". I don't think I need to point out that that doesn't work in practise. Good Com's tend to focus on attacking and upgrading, and put effort into hurting the enemy. Bad com's tend to focus on defense and keeping the enemy from hurting him, not always realising that the best way to do that is to constantly hurt the enemy.
So, if you don't want to be called a newb com, I suggest you either change your strategy or start communicating (convincingly). <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
heheh...Comunication I have. I always tell the marines wath to do. I dont do Turtling, I put max 5 Turrets, cause here they always do Skull base rush, and 7 skulss x 7 marines, skulls can win. Besides, defending your base will make the commander worry less defending, and more attacking. Thats why after my base defenses r up, I order every one to begin gathering RTs, making the fights away from the base, and if a skull passes trought, base defenses can handle it by there own.
but I always thought that weapons up first wsa best, but I guess armor ups first r better...
And I only defend 3 types of spot:
1) Base (of course <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> )
2) Double RT (For current flow of resources)
3) Hives (locking them down)
And one more thing...Static base defenses are very good at the early game, cause after sometime u really dont use more res for defenses, only expansions...
Sorry for not having too much faith in the "no communication" strategy. Not all strategies are good. Not all strategies have an equal chance of winning. Most people agree that Wu1 is not as good as Au1, most people agree that TF+turrets in base is res poorly spent at the beginning, everyone agrees that lack of communication is a problem.
5 turrets? That's "turtling" in my book and yes, I would definetely be voting to eject. If you play on servers where:
- Aliens all rush base at the start
and
- Aliens rushing base actually have a chance of winning
Then the chance of me running into you isn't that big anyway so it's not a problem. If you need a TF to hold base, then sure, go ahead and build one, but if I were you I'd be looking for a server with more competent players instead.
Sorry for not having too much faith in the "no communication" strategy. Not all strategies are good. Not all strategies have an equal chance of winning. Most people agree that Wu1 is not as good as Au1, most people agree that TF+turrets in base is res poorly spent at the beginning, everyone agrees that lack of communication is a problem.
5 turrets? That's "turtling" in my book and yes, I would definetely be voting to eject. If you play on servers where:
- Aliens all rush base at the start
and
- Aliens rushing base actually have a chance of winning
Then the chance of me running into you isn't that big anyway so it's not a problem. If you need a TF to hold base, then sure, go ahead and build one, but if I were you I'd be looking for a server with more competent players instead. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Its not lack of competence...
They r very good, but most players r n00bs, so we have to cmpensate the lack of ability somehow...
But the good thing on tis is that more people are coming to the brazilian NS <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Observe -
Comm drops IPs
Comm drops TF
Marine asks "Ok wth is going on here?"
Comm drops Armory
Comm elecs things
Marine asks "Hey comm, WTH MAN"
Comm "Build"
Marine asks "Do you have a plan at all?"
Comm "BUILD PLZ"
Marine says "Nublet comm, eject eject eject"
Sadly all too common amongst people who blame the marines for ejecting them. In fact I've seen worse - I've had games where the comm hasn't communicated AT ALL.
Want to stay in the chair for over a minute? Tell the team WHY you're doing it. Tell them the basics of the plan - relocate? shotty rush? Aliens always try to rush base and you want some defences?
Giving orders won't work with online players. They want to know WHY they're following some stranger they've never met, with no idea of his/her experience in the game. If someone can't explain to me their strat, then you better be sure I'm kicking them out of that chair.
It takes two seconds to spit out one word that explains your strat. Its not much.
Sorry for not having too much faith in the "no communication" strategy. Not all strategies are good. Not all strategies have an equal chance of winning. Most people agree that Wu1 is not as good as Au1, most people agree that TF+turrets in base is res poorly spent at the beginning, everyone agrees that lack of communication is a problem.
5 turrets? That's "turtling" in my book and yes, I would definetely be voting to eject. If you play on servers where:
- Aliens all rush base at the start
and
- Aliens rushing base actually have a chance of winning
Then the chance of me running into you isn't that big anyway so it's not a problem. If you need a TF to hold base, then sure, go ahead and build one, but if I were you I'd be looking for a server with more competent players instead. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Its not lack of competence...
<b>They r very good, but most players r n00bs</b>, so we have to cmpensate the lack of ability somehow...
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ehh.. what?
Sorry for not having too much faith in the "no communication" strategy. Not all strategies are good. Not all strategies have an equal chance of winning. Most people agree that Wu1 is not as good as Au1, most people agree that TF+turrets in base is res poorly spent at the beginning, everyone agrees that lack of communication is a problem.
5 turrets? That's "turtling" in my book and yes, I would definetely be voting to eject. If you play on servers where:
- Aliens all rush base at the start
and
- Aliens rushing base actually have a chance of winning
Then the chance of me running into you isn't that big anyway so it's not a problem. If you need a TF to hold base, then sure, go ahead and build one, but if I were you I'd be looking for a server with more competent players instead. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Its not lack of competence...
<b>They r very good, but most players r n00bs</b>, so we have to cmpensate the lack of ability somehow...
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ehh.. what? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
lol...sorry my bad
We have vets that play since v1.0 of NS (just like me) but most of them gave up because of the new versions that came (2.0), and thanks to the CS n00bs that simply decided to play NS. Because of that, r most players n00b (a small part wants to learn how Ns work) but most think that this is CS with aliens....
The vets u dont have communicate too much, they already know what to do...
The newbies try to help the best way they can, but they aren´t so good as vets, so u need to communicate with them.
The n00bs (most) Don´t know what to do and don´t give a damn about the comm orders.
That sucks...These n00bs that kick comm that play diferent...
If comm starts with TF and turrets without speaking I vote eject too, there is really no sense in it, i understand TF if he plans to electrify things (not so good too), but building TF and turrets right in beginning is not helping marines in any way..
And skulks can eat it with no problem, if you leave no marine in base 3 skulks can easilly handle TF with 5 turrets, really no problem..
These types of comms are the kind i call "builders", they usually dont have enough experiences..
I'd say you lose about half your effectiveness when you try to comm without a mic. Which means you're losing games you could have won if you used voice comm.
I don't mind a comm that builds an armory and TF at marine start. Electrifying early RTs can protect them from skulks so you can focus your team on other matters. Even adding two turrets can help defend the base if the marines on guard duty don't have very good aim. But anything more than that this early in the game is seriously hurting your expansion plans and your economy. You need to be capping RTs to start taking in more res to fuel further growth. Every minute you don't cap an RT is costing you a good amount of res.
Otherwise aliens can hoard up to fade and run rampant over you.
Far far FAR too many games are lost because aggression is lacking. If you rush aliens, they have to put res into defences, they'll want more hives a lot faster as backup, etc. If you DON'T pressure aliens, they'll tech to Fade, kill all your elec rts, and rush your woefully inadequate marines, bleeding them of any upgrades they may have had.
I've seen it a lot, and its a real shame because otherwise good commanders are getting annihilated because they're relying on a tech rush rather than old fashioned blood and guts.
1 marine defends base, while the rest goes after RT and hives...
I´m trying to make might base relocation better, but I every time I try to lock down a hive, we lose the game.
At my base stay only 1 ip, 1 tf, 2 turrets, and sometimes a armory (mostly not)
Give me some tips...
Learn by experience. Each game WILL be different and thus each game demands a different strat. You can have the bare bones of a plan (harass the enemy, control the res) but HOW you do that will vary from game to game.
Its all very well saying leave base empty, but if you get skulk rushed you could lose the game very quickly. Likewise laming up base can be fatal if the aliens choose not to rush but instead cap res.
That is all about the skill of your marines and what upgrade aliens got frist. Alien upgrades: if they got DC the armor up plays right into there hands, since they can do more damge anyway. Now if they had SC or MC the armor helps since they will be getting the jump on your men eather by speed or stealth, and that extra bite makes all the differnce. Skill factor: if your guys are good shots the weapon upgrade makes them very deadly. Now if they are bad shots the armor gives them a few more seconds to land some shots. Weapon upgrade also helps your senterys/mines/elt buildings, more boost for your buck i'd say. The armor upgrade needs alot of welders to stay at full effect(that 5 res adds up VERY fast), and if you don't weld you lose the full effect of the upgrade after the frist hit, weapons on the other hand stay at full power even at 1 life no armor.
On maps like eclipse, I don't worry about TF until we have at least a few RTs secured. Especially if my team is larger than 7 or 8 people, 2 or 3 can guard base while i make 2 groups of 3 rines to go capture some RTs. I usually start out with 1 IP, unless i notice my rines are dieing often. Other times, like on hera, I'm 50-50 on wether to relocate or not. Cargo is usually my choice if my rines can get there quick and the aliens' base isnt too close. I've won & lost on hera, relocated and not.
And, Communication is a MUST for commanders, I hate not knowing what my com is cooking up. Just say a few words every minute or so, that way we know you haven't fallen asleep at the keyboard.
Also, WAYPOINTS ARE A GOOD THING. There is a big difference between saying "run to furnace" and actually guiding the rines there step by step, planning a point where they can meet and rush it as a whole. I know it takes effort, but that's what com is all about.
On maps like eclipse, I don't worry about TF until we have at least a few RTs secured. Especially if my team is larger than 7 or 8 people, 2 or 3 can guard base while i make 2 groups of 3 rines to go capture some RTs. I usually start out with 1 IP, unless i notice my rines are dieing often. Other times, like on hera, I'm 50-50 on wether to relocate or not. Cargo is usually my choice if my rines can get there quick and the aliens' base isnt too close. I've won & lost on hera, relocated and not.
And, Communication is a MUST for commanders, I hate not knowing what my com is cooking up. Just say a few words every minute or so, that way we know you haven't fallen asleep at the keyboard.
Also, WAYPOINTS ARE A GOOD THING. There is a big difference between saying "run to furnace" and actually guiding the rines there step by step, planning a point where they can meet and rush it as a whole. I know it takes effort, but that's what com is all about. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Eclipse I make a base and dont relocate...There are some places where is very useful to put some turrets where even skulks take long to attack them.
This is the only map I play my way and win.
Make base everyone, 2 go after a hive, 1-2 stay at base defending, and the rest com after res....
That is all about the skill of your marines and what upgrade aliens got frist. Alien upgrades: if they got DC the armor up plays right into there hands, since they can do more damge anyway. Now if they had SC or MC the armor helps since they will be getting the jump on your men eather by speed or stealth, and that extra bite makes all the differnce. Skill factor: if your guys are good shots the weapon upgrade makes them very deadly. Now if they are bad shots the armor gives them a few more seconds to land some shots. Weapon upgrade also helps your senterys/mines/elt buildings, more boost for your buck i'd say. The armor upgrade needs alot of welders to stay at full effect(that 5 res adds up VERY fast), and if you don't weld you lose the full effect of the upgrade after the frist hit, weapons on the other hand stay at full power even at 1 life no armor. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wrong and, surprise, wrong.
Wu1 doesn't make weapons very deadly. It means it takes one (1) bullet less to kill a skulk. Wu doesn't effect turrets at all. Au1 is pretty much *the* single upgrade that makes the most difference. It is not about skill, good Marines need Au1 as much as bad Marines, and profit from it even more. The best players I have ever seen still want armor before weapons because (tada!) Au1 gives a 50% increase in life (3 instead of 2 bites) where as Wu1 gives less then a 10% increase in attack power in reality. (10 instead of 11 bullets). Conclusion: People who don't knwo any better go Wu1. If you're mean, you can call them nubs.
That is all about the skill of your marines and what upgrade aliens got frist. Alien upgrades: if they got DC the armor up plays right into there hands, since they can do more damge anyway. Now if they had SC or MC the armor helps since they will be getting the jump on your men eather by speed or stealth, and that extra bite makes all the differnce. Skill factor: if your guys are good shots the weapon upgrade makes them very deadly. Now if they are bad shots the armor gives them a few more seconds to land some shots. Weapon upgrade also helps your senterys/mines/elt buildings, more boost for your buck i'd say. The armor upgrade needs alot of welders to stay at full effect(that 5 res adds up VERY fast), and if you don't weld you lose the full effect of the upgrade after the frist hit, weapons on the other hand stay at full power even at 1 life no armor. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wrong and, surprise, wrong.
Wu1 doesn't make weapons very deadly. It means it takes one (1) bullet less to kill a skulk. Wu doesn't effect turrets at all. Au1 is pretty much *the* single upgrade that makes the most difference. It is not about skill, good Marines need Au1 as much as bad Marines, and profit from it even more. The best players I have ever seen still want armor before weapons because (tada!) Au1 gives a 50% increase in life (3 instead of 2 bites) where as Wu1 gives less then a 10% increase in attack power in reality. (10 instead of 11 bullets). Conclusion: People who don't knwo any better go Wu1. If you're mean, you can call them nubs. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Very well put, no matter how many times its been stated, some people don't like to admit it.
Yeah, nubs vs. people with half a clue, the strategy section of these forums are really turning into rubbish, I have to tell players the basics when I should be talking about methods far more advanced.
That is all about the skill of your marines and what upgrade aliens got frist. Alien upgrades: if they got DC the armor up plays right into there hands, since they can do more damge anyway. Now if they had SC or MC the armor helps since they will be getting the jump on your men eather by speed or stealth, and that extra bite makes all the differnce. Skill factor: if your guys are good shots the weapon upgrade makes them very deadly. Now if they are bad shots the armor gives them a few more seconds to land some shots. Weapon upgrade also helps your senterys/mines/elt buildings, more boost for your buck i'd say. The armor upgrade needs alot of welders to stay at full effect(that 5 res adds up VERY fast), and if you don't weld you lose the full effect of the upgrade after the frist hit, weapons on the other hand stay at full power even at 1 life no armor. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wrong and, surprise, wrong.
Wu1 doesn't make weapons very deadly. It means it takes one (1) bullet less to kill a skulk. Wu doesn't effect turrets at all. Au1 is pretty much *the* single upgrade that makes the most difference. It is not about skill, good Marines need Au1 as much as bad Marines, and profit from it even more. The best players I have ever seen still want armor before weapons because (tada!) Au1 gives a 50% increase in life (3 instead of 2 bites) where as Wu1 gives less then a 10% increase in attack power in reality. (10 instead of 11 bullets). Conclusion: People who don't knwo any better go Wu1. If you're mean, you can call them nubs. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
It dose upgrade senterys unless the help files are flat out lieing. And that little bit of damage dose't help the single marine much, just guess what, teamwork is key, you add all of that extra fire power in large teams you really see it, and you never did respond to needing welders or loseing the efftect of the upgrade. wu1 is also the frist step to the prized lvl3.
But people often forget that humans, playing as marines, can and will get bored standing around in the base. Especially if you send the rest of the team to lock down an enemy hive. And, it's especially difficult because a large portion of the NS players are not experienced and don't know the value of a mobile defense, i.e. the marine.
Anyway, the big turret debate....
I play/admin a public server, and generally my marines suck!
I am also in a clan that has won a few scrims, and my marines are good.
In both cases, my build order is:
2 ips
1 tf
3 turrets (triangle)
The reasons:
Sucky Team:
For a sucky team, you are an IDIOT if you expect them to be able to hit ANYTHING! I once relied on 5 "nub" marines to kill ONE skulk! They all died!
Turrets do several things to alieviate this! If you have base defenders AND turrets, the skulks have to focus on one or another. This keeps the other free to shoot. For example, if the skulk chases the 'rine to get his 1-3 res fix, he gets blasted by the turret. If he goes after the turret/tf, then he's more-or-less stationary for the marine. Also, it helps on a skulk rush since it slows them down at the very least...they can't just ignore the tf/turrets unless the comm is an idiot and can't place turrets worth sh*t!
Good Team:
A good team usually works together. I'm a big fan of phase-gate links and turret farms. The reason I farm is to DELAY the attacking aliens. It also serves as a notice to where things are being taken out. A commander CANNOT be omniscient...to assume he/she can is the height of ignorance. By having turret farms at various locales helps the comm stay on top of things. That little "turret firing" message in that sexy female voice helps the commander realize that something is amiss in his rear station.
Also, turrets aren't worthless in terms of defense, either! Let's say you're at marine start or at a hive and have 5-8 turrets up and a turret factory. Onos rushes in. Yes, the turrets do almost nothing to Mr. O, BUT, 9/10 times, the ONOS WILL SPEND TIME CHOMPING YOUR TF and NOT THE REST OF YOUR BASE (excluding phase gates...only idiot Onos will bypass a phase gate for a tf). Anyway, this gives you precious seconds for your jet-packers to rush in and rip said onos a new one.
Despite everything I have ever heard from every "l337" player, turret farming CAN and DOES work. Of COURSE you have to adapt every strategy during game, but I have won more games than I've lost with a turret farming strat...even when my team sucks (one of my fav quotes on pub servers was from a guy who was getting flamed for turreting instead giving out shotties to his team. His response: "At least turrets follow my ****ing orders!"). I've won a few scrims that way too. Perhaps it's looked down upon by the self-proclaimed gods of online imaginary alien-killing gaming, but in my book, it's an ok strat.
Not that this thread had anything to do with turret farming, mind you. I just wanted to ramble a bit.
I know for a fact weapon up-grades help senterys in 1.04, where dose it say they don't in 2.0?
if ur really worried about ur base, build a tf but no turrets then if ur base is in truble elec the tf and soon ure base will be protected by electricity from skulks, that is if u built ur base right