Scs 1st Can Work!
Fat_Wang
Join Date: 2003-08-31 Member: 20420Members
Join Date: 2003-08-31 Member: 20420Members
<div class="IPBDescription">based on my exp</div> i just played a strange game today. i devised a weird plan to experiment and cuase i felt lame. we all went gorge and dropped scs (3 of us). then we moved to rine start and dropped scs outside. we all watched the rines hump the armory (just found out the armory actually shakes when u hump it!!!11). i gave the signal and we all spit spammed them. mosr dropped and the rest kept humping. da nub comm actually built da armory b4 ips!!! we screwed them over.
nother less lame game: map=eclipse players=24 (12 vs 12)
again we all gorge rushed and plopped down scs at rine start. after watching ppl hump armory, we decided they would relocate. they moved to us. when they were 5 feet away we started heal spamming. we almost won cept the comm dropped shotties and we all died. we had critically screwed them so they had to keep welding base. we all re-assembled at the same location. this time we dropped ocs 2. they came again. this time we were rdy. when they came close enuff, abunch of ocs and gorges opened fire. they died in seconds. we procedded to dropp ocs in base but comm dropped shotties AGAIN. we scattered but didnt die. we all healed and decided to skulk. by this time they had b;asted away the ocs and relocated to horseshoe. we all crept up to them and bit them to death. they didnt stand a chance. i dropped hive and we all re-re-assembled. comm had managed to upgrade armory and dropp gls. they went for our hive but we inercepted them with minimal resistance (hell how can u resist sumthing u cant even c?). we proceeded to win. if it hadnt been for the scs we wouldve died cuase they wouldve seen us and blown us away. then we wouldve lost da game. this restored my faith in scs. with 2.1 and focus cumming up, im gonna b a real fan of scs.
nother less lame game: map=eclipse players=24 (12 vs 12)
again we all gorge rushed and plopped down scs at rine start. after watching ppl hump armory, we decided they would relocate. they moved to us. when they were 5 feet away we started heal spamming. we almost won cept the comm dropped shotties and we all died. we had critically screwed them so they had to keep welding base. we all re-assembled at the same location. this time we dropped ocs 2. they came again. this time we were rdy. when they came close enuff, abunch of ocs and gorges opened fire. they died in seconds. we procedded to dropp ocs in base but comm dropped shotties AGAIN. we scattered but didnt die. we all healed and decided to skulk. by this time they had b;asted away the ocs and relocated to horseshoe. we all crept up to them and bit them to death. they didnt stand a chance. i dropped hive and we all re-re-assembled. comm had managed to upgrade armory and dropp gls. they went for our hive but we inercepted them with minimal resistance (hell how can u resist sumthing u cant even c?). we proceeded to win. if it hadnt been for the scs we wouldve died cuase they wouldve seen us and blown us away. then we wouldve lost da game. this restored my faith in scs. with 2.1 and focus cumming up, im gonna b a real fan of scs.
Comments
The counter to SC's is obs. Obs are cheap and a decent comm will counter your cloaking very easily. Therefore SC's are only useful versus a n00b comm.
SC's are not inherantly bad because the provide poor abilities but because they are easily counterable.
Then we had an organized assault on the marine base and killed their base, because the comm wasn't present.
Now do you know how these 2 games are similar?? I'll just post them in anyway <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
a) We used teamwork. Yes TEAMWORK. The main ingredient for victory in NS games.
b) Their comm wasn't present and/or was bad at commanding
Now you see how we managed to win <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
But there is a fatal flaw with this: you'd have to organize the entire team to cloak and walk into marine start without giving themselves away - which is close to impossible on pub servers. In clan-level matches, you'll probably get a big mouthful of medspam and then an obs to seal your fate. But I do think it possible that this could actually work in a clan match. Could.
Now, I don't mind sensory, but I like advance warning and ultimately a TEAM DECISION on what chamber goes first. So make sure you've got the team approval, folks.
Second, what little advantage we had was obsolete within a few minutes as marines got MT and proceeded to ferret out every gorge trying to cap an rt.
The game became a crazed rush to second hive in order to drop a chamber we could get some long term benefit from, and the game eventually resulted in an alien win. However, the marines had time enough to get HA, get a foothold in Waste hive, and have some bitter fighting over reactor room.
HAD WE GONE DC OR MC FIRST THE GAME WOULD HAVE BEEN OVER VERY QUICKLY.
Instead the game is artificially drawn out and becomes an uphill struggle for the alien players, since only half the team had the necessary wit to make use of sensory.
Take home message - You *can* win with sensory but its boring, drawn out, and a real waste of time for aliens.
People claim that noone is good at using sensory effectivly. However, it'll just bite you in the butt if you keep thinking that, and automaticly going DMS, using the same forumula that's been used and abused since 1 point freaking 0.
Must every game be rank-and-file, with one path to victory, and other paths unexplored? If that's the case, then let's get rid of being able to select the chamber order. That way, I won't be kicked when I place the 'wrong' chamber because I mispressed a key.
I think the main point of this post is to explore occsionally. I think you might actually like what you find, and you might actually have an INTERESTING game, instead of one that's decided in the first 5 minutes. I mean, wern't you people proud of yourselves when you won, despite using a 'disadvantaged' chamber?
You can't win every game, anyways. And where's the fun of winning the exact same way every time?
PS: Actually, yea, get your team's permission. Good point, Necrosis. This is more of a rant to the vetrans, who seem to only want a tried and true method to victory to bolster their scores/bragging rights. Human nature at it's best.
Although, you gotta admit, what are the odds of getting team permission for Sens? -.-
Its just the key problem is that cloaking is noticeable to anyone with a bit of wit (or insane gamma), your ears can do the same job of SoF, and pheremones is just marines breaking wind.
I mean there's no real advantage to be gained, other than moderately free movement around the map.
On the plus side, I'm hoping to see a change with 2.1 and the proposed focus ability, which gives a permanent benefit (unlike cloaking, which is easily negated). Sure, n00bs won't understand they have to time their bites, but n00bs never learn, so I couldn't care less for them.
It'll be a gentler curve than the currently steep first hive SC one.
*embarassed sigh* i had to curse at them for 5 minutes. then after i inevitibly got their attention i told them da plan. *another embarrased sigh*
To add:
DC is necessary because it is the only counter to electrified nozzles. <b>1 person MUST go fade and attack these nozzles.</b> They can only effectively do this with regeneration.
2 skulks and a gorge can do it, but it is 1) harder to organize and thus takes longer, 2) even 1 marine can break up the party, and 3) unless movement is taken the gorge will not heal very fast. A fade can easily blink away at the same of trouble and return to that nozzle, or simply kill the lone marine.
... <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo-->
4 out of 5 of the games I played today were ruined by some ****-off guy chewing the entire team out over the voicecomm. Maybe it gets noobs to pay attention once in a while, but it ruins the game for the average players and vets.
Another big downside to first SC is that it ruins the two-hive onos... I mean, they really need both Movements and Defense to be effective.
here's the main advantage of early scs - they let you control the map, and this makes marines turtle. marines cant kill what they cant see, and by the time comm gets obs up, you have all the res nodes. when sens first wins a game, THIS is usually why. at least my theory.
nother less lame game: map=eclipse players=24 (12 vs 12)
again we all gorge rushed and plopped down scs at rine start. after watching ppl hump armory, we decided they would relocate. they moved to us. when they were 5 feet away we started heal spamming. we almost won cept the comm dropped shotties and we all died. we had critically screwed them so they had to keep welding base. we all re-assembled at the same location. this time we dropped ocs 2. they came again. this time we were rdy. when they came close enuff, abunch of ocs and gorges opened fire. they died in seconds. we procedded to dropp ocs in base but comm dropped shotties AGAIN. we scattered but didnt die. we all healed and decided to skulk. by this time they had b;asted away the ocs and relocated to horseshoe. we all crept up to them and bit them to death. they didnt stand a chance. i dropped hive and we all re-re-assembled. comm had managed to upgrade armory and dropp gls. they went for our hive but we inercepted them with minimal resistance (hell how can u resist sumthing u cant even c?). we proceeded to win. if it hadnt been for the scs we wouldve died cuase they wouldve seen us and blown us away. then we wouldve lost da game. this restored my faith in scs. with 2.1 and focus cumming up, im gonna b a real fan of scs. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Anything 'can' work. But what has a better chance at working? I'll agree in 3.0 sense are going to make a huge comeback if they dont do something about focus, but! Sensory imo is just limited yourself when there are far better chambers to choose from.
I love playing in a game with sensory as aliens, and I DON'T CARE IF THEY HAVE MT OR AN OBSERVATORY. Just don't go in their base. Just make sure they don't leave base alive, AND ALWAYS WALK WHEN YOU'RE NEAR MARINES. They can't hear you. They can't see you. They can't detect you on motion tracking. A good cloacked skulk can easily kill EVERY SINGLE MARINE leaving base.
The only time when it becomes useless is when marines get heavy armor. Then you can't kill them alone, but sensory can be absolutely devastating to the marine team in the claws of a skilled skulk. It gets to the point where people call me cheap, lame, hacking, etc.
Oh, it's quite fun to make the marines use all their res on pinging outside of base. Quite satisfying; besides, it's easy to run away for 5 seconds, then come back.
If the marines are trapped in ONE base and all they do is rambo off alone, you're going to win with ANY chamber.
You brought up an excellent point about aliens always winning if the marines are trapped in one base. If you get sensory and you have at least one person who knows how to use it, then the marines will have great difficulty expanding to create other bases.
sc great for stoping the sg rush. game starts half go off to finde rts to cap, 1 gose to MS to see whats goin on and the rest go to the dobble rez (or the most likely relocate area). if the guy at MS says sg rush all get back to the hive drop a sc and wate. its cake walk. the only time this dose not work is if the com droped an obs but he will only be able to ping once (per obs droped).
now that you have sc one guy goes back to MS and paras a few when they spawn and just keeps an eye on them (as knowing what your enemy is doing is the first step in stoping them).
you will want a 2nd hive asap and get dc next <yes i know silence + cloaking rocks for skulks> but by now the riens have a few rts that are electrifid and something more reliable than an oc siege or trying to heal a skulk is needed to take down thoes rts (as the rts are probably near MS).
mc second can work but the gorges need to work together. at lest 2 find a rt that need takeing down. 1 gorge drops a mc and both bio bomb the rt. the mc helps you to get the rt down faster and if the mariens come the save the rt you can use the mc to get away.
the only problem with sc first mc second is fade and onos will be killed befor they can do anything useful and if the maries take the onocupid hive your in big troble.
edit..
in the end its all about the rez. if you have more rts you will probly win.
oh... and if you must save for onos (i hate you, you nonteam player) and you just have to hit MS take out the armory. someone went onos yester day and rushed MS died soon after saying "atlest i got the proto and arms lab down". useless.
if he killed the armory then the proto then the com would have to upgrade the armory again befor he can drop hmg's or another proto. useful.
you OBVIOUSLY havent ever seen this in action- ive tried it myself; even with 4 obs, once you run out of energy, it takes FOREVER to recharge. And those observatories aint cheap- 20 res a pop, ****, id rather fight vanilla marines as vanilla skulk than upgraded marines with carapace *oooooooooooooooo* big deal lol.
The only time when it becomes useless is when marines get heavy armor.
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I agree with your first point. Cloaking is one of those upgrades that is so effective that it can actually scare marines not expecting it.
However, I disagree with your second point. Sensory is extremely useful especially against heavies. Combined with silence, a marine often won't know he's getting attacked unless he's religiously watching his health.
I would go so far to say that cloak is the <i>only</i> skulk upgrade that is effective against heavies. DCs and MCs certainly won't help you. If they can't see you, they can't shoot you.