Who's got the upper hand?
Jeb_Radec
Join Date: 2002-08-09 Member: 1128Members
Join Date: 2002-08-09 Member: 1128Members
<div class="IPBDescription">I can't seem to get a handle on this</div>In some stories it sounds like one of those sci fi movies where the Space Marines rule all and kick lots of weak alien ### every five seconds.
But in other stories its like your other classic sci fi movie where aliens are tough as nails and blindly charge while Space Marines pump round after round into the few there are and to no avail.
Well I ask u, WHICH IS IT?!
But in other stories its like your other classic sci fi movie where aliens are tough as nails and blindly charge while Space Marines pump round after round into the few there are and to no avail.
Well I ask u, WHICH IS IT?!
Comments
Edit: There is more than one type of Sci-Fi?
<!--EDIT|humbaba|Sep. 05 2002,18:55-->
Aliens, on the other hand, as you may have often heard, are designed more with a deathmatch feeling in mind. Certainly, they are able to do more damage when working together. However, they are designed to be vicious and deadly as a single fighting unit.
Twilight
Twilight
For example,
The lerk can fire spikes at an enemy, and I hear they remain very accurate.
The fade can fire acid rockets.
Though I don't know the range, I understand the gorge can fire a bacterial spray.
And then there is the bile bomb.
It can never be this simple... there are always factors that alter the situation. If two players started out at opposite ends of a featureless, fully lit room, a marine with just an LMG could probably make short work of a Skulk before it closed to melee range. But that's seldom the case... being a Skulk is ALL about hiding, catching marines off guard, and making opportunity kills.
As a Skulk, I've single-handedly taken down a squad consisting of a grenade launcher, a shotgun, and two LMGs. I've also been killed by a lone marine with a pistol. There are always factors that change the outcome of a given encounter.
So, Marines have to try and face Aliens together, and Aliens have to try to pick-off lonely (lost) Marines?
What happens if some Aliens team up to strike a squad from diffrent directions, with a class powerfull enough to have ranged attacks?? Marines will me chacinated, right??
Oh, the questions are not over yet. one more thing. With absolutely no-upgrades, how much time does it take one guy with a LMG to kill an Alien lvl1 in a huge empty room as soon as he starts firing? (assuming that the alien will never reach the marine)
And how much time does a level1 alien takes to kill a Marine by bitting continuously on him? (assuming that the Marine won't fire at the alien or something)
I had wondered what would happen if aliens used the same level of team play as the marines myself but I was assured that its all even and balanced. Aliens have their own style of team play anyway, they have the hivemind so they always know when their buildings and team mates are being attacked and they can still communicate. They can never reach the marines lvl of teamwork though as they dont have a commander to coordinate them and its impossible without that (though on a LAN if someone just watched all the aliens screens and helped them instead of playing himself it might compensate). Marine commanders can also drop health and ammo to marines whereas an alien has to retreat to heal.
Saying all of that, marines can be useful on their own anyway, in the smaller games that the PTers play its impossible for the marines to walk around with 2 or 3 team mates because thats their whole team. Marines have to be on their own in certain situations, especially scouting for hives and things. Many of the frontline tales (especially Humbaba's) tell experiences of being alone, supported only by the commander and they have to achieve objectives and defend themselves without help from fellow marines.
Finally, locational damage isnt in, lots of reasons for this but I cant be bothered to explain them all here <!--emo&:D--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'><!--endemo-->(ive written enough). I suggest that if you're interested in they why's and wherefor's then search the ideas board for the words locational damage. You should find at least one or two topics with everything in that you need. Trust me when I say no locational damage is a good thing for the moment.
If the game was balanced enough in proper ways it would come down to which side will have the most players cooperating together for the objective.
<a href="http://www.planetgloom.com/" target="_blank">Planet Gloom site</a>
I know its old, but it is a classic in my heart <!--emo&:p--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'><!--endemo-->
Mainly because all aliens are mostly close- range fighters, thus, their skills overlap.
However, 2 LMG's 2 shotguns, and HMG and a Grenade launcher provide MUCH more effect than the dame 6 aliens grouped together. Why? Because the LMG's are used for point guards, the shotgunners keep the melee'ers away, the Grenade launcher provides heavy, indirect fire, and the HMG lays down a solid stream of suppressive fire, deadly t medium range.
Thus, you have the indirect and medium ranges covered, the shorts covered with the LMG's, and melee range covered with shotguns. That marine team is now X^6 times as deadly as it would have been with simply one marine, whereas 6 aliens would only be 6X times more deadly.
However, aliens themselves, are more powerful on their own, simply because of their massive melee damage. Thus, if they are played right, they can be just as or even more deadly than the marines.
Thats how I understand it, anyway.
Yessir, thats exactly it. So, aliens are usually a lot better off playing seperately on all fronts, as they can hold their own, but marines need support of fellow marines, but get much more potent with support. The end result, aliens seem to be everywhere (and they are), and marines move 1 or 2 cohesive, deadly groups. Ultimately, it all balances out. Which is the amazing thing about NS. I'm always astounded by how flay manages to have 2 sides with completely different tactics, 4 weapons per creature (on the aliens side), a ton of buildings, and an extensive tech tree all balanced. Really, this guy deserves a medal.
What Legionnaired is saying is that *once* the proper technology is developed and *once* such a diverse group of people has gathered they have multiple ranges covered well.
That is very different from saying that marines strength grows exponentially with the size of the group (although I would very much prefer this to be true).
For the statement to be true, firepower of six combined LMG's would need to be something like (firepower of one LMG)^6. So the real question is: where is the threshold which shoudl be set to achieve balance? In other words,
if the damage of the LMG (health points/time unit) is X and the damage of lerk's bite is Y (health point/time unit), what should the number of marines N be such that
X^N = Y?
I belive for fairness N should be around 1.5, but LMG also has the range advantage so maybe it should be either 2 or 2.5
Eh?
Stan R.
This needs to be tested thouroughly, a simple constant cannot be applied.