Max_map_clipnodes I'm Angry

Rendy_CZech · November 2003

I reach MAX_MAP_CLIPNODES. Is good way to use -noclipeconomy, or am I doomed to fill map with clip brushes <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'>? Plz help.... <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/nerd.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd.gif'>

And another question. Is func wall and func illusionary counted in entitity limit (300). I need lot of func_walls because HLVIS dont split them and this makes my r_speeds high <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'>

Lol I'm beast <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'>

amckern · November 2003

i know opt_plnz works, but i don't know if u can use on the 1/2 complied map

also check out tommy14's help page at <a href='http://www.slackiller.com/tommy14/errors.htm' target='_blank'>http://www.slackiller.com/tommy14/errors.htm</a> colud help an a dif way to using clip brushes

amckern

watch_me_die · November 2003

Have you tried using the "smallest" cliptype option on XP Cagey's tools?

-noclipeconomy will increase your clipnodes, as it disables removal of unnecessary ones <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

Rendy_CZech · November 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> ([watch.me.die] @ Nov 1 2003, 10:44 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Have you tried using the "smallest" cliptype option on XP Cagey's tools?
</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
I don't know what does this mean <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'>

How can I use opt_planes ?

Rendy_CZech · November 2003

Compiler report this

csg.exe -chart -hullfile c:\nshulls.txt <b>-cliptype precise</b>

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>CODE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='CODE'>
Object names Objects/Maxobjs Memory / Maxmem Fullness
------------ --------------- --------------- --------
models 0/400 0/25600 ( 0.0)
planes 37668/65535 753360/1310700 (57.5)
vertexes 0/65535 0/786420 ( 0.0)
nodes 0/32767 0/786408 ( 0.0)
texinfos 4708/32767 188320/1310680 (14.4)
faces 0/65535 0/1310700 ( 0.0)
clipnodes   0/32767 0/262136 ( 0.0 <----- strange
leaves   0/8192 0/229376 ( 0.0)
marksurfaces 0/65535 0/131070 ( 0.0)
surfedges 0/512000 0/2048000 ( 0.0)
edges 0/256000 0/1024000 ( 0.0)
texdata [variable] 0/4194304 ( 0.0)
lightdata [variable] 0/6291456 ( 0.0)
visdata   [variable] 0/2097152 ( 0.0)
entdata [variable] 0/524288 ( 0.0)
</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

watch_me_die · November 2003

try -cliptype smallest

amckern · November 2003

opt_plnz - drag and drop the bsp file onto the .exe

it will not do anything, but optimize the planes, and make the map slightly smaller

my lattest build of 2wad has 10983 planes, after i used opt_plnz i had just over 4000, almost 1/2 the planes where wasted and useless

amckern

Rendy_CZech · November 2003

Is'n there any parameter whitch gives me more than 32000 clipnodes

Confused · November 2003

i think there is a hard cap on clip nodes. i may be wrong on that, cagey would know. with smallest you will get a pretty good decease in clipnodes. also try using func_illusionary and clip brushes to decrease them as well.

try translation to and from czech <a href='http://www.worldlanguage.com/Translation.htm' target='_blank'>here</a>

- it works terribly for english to english-
for example " confused is the man" translates from english to english as "disorderly is commonalty"

Rendy_CZech · November 2003

Hehe good idea, I use translator <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

But my problem isn't to understand (I have dictionary hehe), but i'm bad in written text. I'm n00b in english <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'> I hope that you don't mind

Already I'm filling my map with clip-brushes. If i use -smallest option, it causes me some stucks and strange things (door and some func_wall are invisible etc.)

Now the sitation is, if i use -precise option I've got about 31.000 clipnodes, but only 1/3 map is done <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'> I have suspicion CSG is calculing nodes outside map hull (i have sky brush over whole map)

Kage · November 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Rendy.[CZech] @ Nov 3 2003, 08:50 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Now the sitation is, if i use -precise option I've got about 31.000 clipnodes, but only 1/3 map is done <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'> I have suspicion CSG is calculing nodes outside map hull (i have sky brush over whole map)  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
Get rid of the sky brush immediately. It is the source of all of your problems.

Rendy_CZech · November 2003

Yay Kage save the day <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

... err now i must find all leaks <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'>

amckern · November 2003

consider nulling your skybox (and the out side of your level)

i did this, as my rr was full of leeks (all 1 unit gaps)

and i saved a few clip nodes

amckern

Cagey · November 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Rendy.[CZech] @ Nov 2 2003, 03:50 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Compiler report this

csg.exe -chart -hullfile c:\nshulls.txt <b>-cliptype precise</b>

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>CODE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='CODE'>
Object names Objects/Maxobjs Memory / Maxmem Fullness
------------ --------------- --------------- --------
models 0/400 0/25600 ( 0.0)
planes 37668/65535 753360/1310700 (57.5)
vertexes 0/65535 0/786420 ( 0.0)
nodes 0/32767 0/786408 ( 0.0)
texinfos 4708/32767 188320/1310680 (14.4)
faces 0/65535 0/1310700 ( 0.0)
clipnodes   0/32767 0/262136 ( 0.0 <----- strange
leaves   0/8192 0/229376 ( 0.0)
marksurfaces 0/65535 0/131070 ( 0.0)
surfedges 0/512000 0/2048000 ( 0.0)
edges 0/256000 0/1024000 ( 0.0)
texdata [variable] 0/4194304 ( 0.0)
lightdata [variable] 0/6291456 ( 0.0)
visdata   [variable] 0/2097152 ( 0.0)
entdata [variable] 0/524288 ( 0.0)
</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
HLCSG doesn't create clipnodes. HLBSP does. The chart is correct.

Changing the cliptype causes the clip hull face listings (the *.p1 to *.p3 files) that CSG creates to change, which in makes a difference when HLBSP builds hulls from the face lists.

CSG -> *.p1,*.p2,*.p3 -> BSP -> clipnodes <img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

The hard cap on clipnodes is 65355 total for all three hulls -- this is each node stores references to its children in a 16 bit index--it's hardcoded that way in both the BSP file format and the engine.

Cagey · November 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (amckern @ Nov 3 2003, 04:27 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> consider nulling your skybox (and the out side of your level)

i did this, as my rr was full of leeks (all 1 unit gaps)

and i saved a few clip nodes

amckern  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
Bad idea.

FrieChamp · November 2003

So does this mean, that the clipnodes cannot be increased by a command even with your (Cagey's) compiling tools? If they can, please tell me which command exactly will do it and in which command line to put it (hlbsp?).

Cagey · November 2003

I can't increase the total clipnodes above 65535 -- it's a limit of the BSP file format. I can't change the BSP file format because I don't have access to the level loading code in the Half-Life engine.

It's possible to use fewer clipnodes in a map by changing the shape of the clip hull. Using -cliptype precise in CSG drops most maps'clipnode counts below what Merl's tools spit out and also fixes some sticking problems in game. For now, your best bet is to use the cliptype parameter to drop your clipnode count--I don't have any tricks in the "p" series to drop them further.

It <i>may</i> also be possible to optimize the clip node generation code--I'm working on this as part of my next generation of tools. For reference, a clip node is a convex volume of 3D space that defines an area that the player can move inside; the sum of all clipnodes defines the collision detection for players of up to three different sizes. Clipnodes are created by cutting 3D space along offset brush faces; the cutting order can change the number of resulting nodes. I'm not convinced that the current code always picks the best cutting order, and as a result I think that the same level can be represented in fewer nodes.

EDIT : There seem to be a few recurring problems that need to be solved by the next generation tools: lowering lightdata amounts, lowering clipnode counts, and lowering compile speeds are all common requests that I'm looking into.

FrieChamp · November 2003

Works!

Thanks A LOT for your tools and advice, I appreciate it <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

Rendy_CZech · December 2003

Owkay, I deleted the sky brush, I killed all leaks. But the clipnodes still over the limit. I dont understand why... I dont think my map is bigger than any other ns map... maybe is to complicated in architectonic way. Well clipbrushesr are waiting.... <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'>

Got someone the same problem <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'>

Max_map_clipnodes I'm Angry

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