Armor Two Or Weapon Three?

XCan · November 2003

It seems to me that only armor one is useful as marine, and after getting that most comms aim for weapon three. Only reason of armor two would be to protect from the lerks and some extra armor to the HA. What's your opinion about this?

Lucky · November 2003

If enemy is working in tight groups, armor two is definetly better unless you want to see marines die from 2 skulk bites. Gorg's spit and lerk's spikes/spore drop marines HP for 2 bite kills very quickly. But if enemy is more focused on soloing and higher lifeform ramboing (very typical for pubs), wpn3 is the better choice inspite of it's greater cost and research time.

Warrior · November 2003

armor one lets u take 3 bites. I think armor 1 then lvl 3 guns is very good. The armor lets u survive longer, and the gun upgrades let u kill things faster. After lvl 3 guns get lvl 2 armor then lvl 3. Also lvl 2 armor doesnt give u a extra bite. lvl 3 armor lets u survive 4 bites.

Predmid · November 2003

unless you get HA, rarely go beyond lvl1 a, but always get lvl3 guns...save the res for shotguns/aa/proto, whatever...unless you get that lvl3 armor the lvl2 upgrade doesnt do anytyhing, marines still fall in 3 bites.

lagger · November 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (XCan @ Nov 29 2003, 01:18 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> It seems to me that only armor one is useful as marine, and after getting that most comms aim for weapon three. Only reason of armor two would be to protect from the lerks and some extra armor to the HA. What's your opinion about this?  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
I would always op for weapons 3 <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'> but then again I like to play much more agressivly.

Ballisto · November 2003

ppl keep telling me when i comm that ha is useless w/o lvl 3 armor. well not useless, but not nearly worth as much. and i heard that a lvl 0 hmg = a lvl 3 lmg in damage, and lvl 0 ha = lvl 3 la. whats the deal?

ZERG · November 2003

HA's bonus is not that different than an LA's. HA gets a measly +1 bite on each level. So by level 3, HA survive an extra +3 from 6-7 bites? If you can't survive 6-7 bites, you might wanna practice a little more. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/nerd.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd.gif'>

EDIT: Oh and to answer the topic, armor 2's bonus pales in comparison to weps 2 or 3.

Stakhanov · November 2003

Armor 2 lets a marine take 3 onos gore , and increases his lifespan after he is medpacked (takes 3 bites to kill if you medpack him after he's been bitten once) so it's worth it.

A level 0 HMG is much more effective than a level 3 lmg... remember , it's +10% per level for weapons and +20 (or 30 for HAs) armor points.

Level 3 armor rush is surprisingly effective : a squad of 3 marines can survive fades forever if you medpack them properly. They have plenty of time to reach the hive.

4+ level 3 HAs fear nothing , even if they have lmgs. If an onos devours one , he'll eat 15-20 res instead of 30-40.

taboofires · November 2003

Armor 1 just barely lets you survive 3 bites, and armor 2 makes it a better margin (enough to take 2 bites and a little spike/spore/OC damage). If the enemy is using a lot of long range attacks, it's well worth it. It's also well worth it if you want HA, since it gives you a nice safety margin for your investment (moreso than weapons 3).

Still, I usually choose weapons 3 first, with armor 2 as soon as possible after it. Arms lab upgrades have always been my choice to get done asap, anyway (but armor 3 is low priority until HA time).

Machiavelli · November 2003

For light armors there is very little gain from getting armor 2 and 3, but if you can spare the res, why not? Most often the research order is armor, gun, gun, gun, then if you can spare the res, armor, armor.

I like hev armor and more often then not get it instead of jetpacks (if I can dish out the investment of 40 res). As such I often equip my whole team with armor at about the same time that level 2 guns is researching. Some times if level 2 guns finishs and I don't have enough res for level 3 guns and my whole team is in hev armor I'll get level 2 armor and level 3 armor before level 3 guns because getting level 3 armor lets hev armors take an extra gore hit.

Doobie_Dan · November 2003

I think one of the biggest reasons people opt for weapons 2 & 3 before armor 2 is anti-onos... with level 3 weapons 3 vanilla marines pose a good threat to an onos as long as they have enough time to empty their clips. This is important when you have some rambo onos doing hit-and-runs on your main base in midgame. Armor isn't too important vs onoses because they need to be driven off/killed/redeemed <i>before</i> they get to you.

Lt_Hendrickson · December 2003

From a highly experienced lerk, (this is all going to change in 3.0) level 2 armor is the only real counter to lerks. level 0 and 1 drop so UBER fast but level 2 armor makes it just enough to not be a pain in the ****.

same goes for gorges

If neither of those are harassing you, weopons the way to go.

Lt_Hendrickson · December 2003

o its also good to note that it takes 2 bites and a parasite to kill level 1 armor, so if you see tons of riens dying to parasite upgrade to level 2.

BOBDolol · December 2003

it takes 2 parasites

monster · December 2003

It's a bit off topic..

but weapon3 or Motion tracking?

Keyser · December 2003

W3

Lucky · December 2003

MT because main advantage of marine weapons is range - if enemy jumps you from the ceiling wpn lvl 1 or 3 won't make much of a difference. MT will prevent most of these cases - hence wpn1-2 rines with MT usually get much better kill ratios then wpn3 w/o MT. Wpn3 will give you 1 bullet less to kill advantage on a skulk and few bullets on higher level lifeforms. MT will allow you to pump them with quite a lot more bullets because you'll know where the enemy is coming from.
Generally if your marines go through their clips without killing aliens, wpn3 might be a good choice, because they can kill with less hits that way. However if your team can actually hit the aliens, MT is much better.

Align · December 2003

If vs GOOD sensory aliens- wep 3. Any other, including bad sensory aliens who only put sensories near their hives, go MT.
/\Reason: SCs negate MT within their radius, and good sensory aliens drop scs everywhere to cloak structures and ensure that you can walk through almost the whole map without uncloaking. If there are only sensories near the hives, well, you're not going to be in the hive unless you're assaulting or sieging, and then the sensory should get destroyed fairly quickly after some scans...

That_Annoying_Kid · December 2003

I would say MT instead of three, becuase lvl1 armour and lvl2 weapons + mt lets you rape skulks, and gives you the drop when someone is creeping on you

I wouldn't be sure but maybe with 3.0 and the MT nerfs it will change

Firewater · December 2003

MT is a waste of res, it lets you see the danger comming true, but if you cannot stop it, (lets say its an onos or fade, and you have no upgrades because the comm chose MT over an arms lab, it does you no good. The only time MT should be researched is if the aliens start using silence, which is very rare because a first hive chamber is usually defense.

Learn to use sound, and listen to footsteps, thats more valuable then MT because footsteps are always around, unless the aliens use silence. MT might not be researched during the entire game.

That_Annoying_Kid · December 2003

yup, MT doesn't even get looked at in clan matches [we have only had it in one scrim]

and like someone said silence eliminates motion tracking if you come up behind them

lagger · December 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Firewater @ Dec 1 2003, 05:18 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> MT is a waste of res, it lets you see the danger comming true, but if you cannot stop it, (lets say its an onos or fade, and you have no upgrades because the comm chose MT over an arms lab, it does you no good. The only time MT should be researched is if the aliens start using silence, which is very rare because a first hive chamber is usually defense.

Learn to use sound, and listen to footsteps, thats more valuable then MT because footsteps are always around, unless the aliens use silence. MT might not be researched during the entire game. </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
Mt is also usefull not neccessarily for combat but general recon. You will always know were most of their forces are or if they are going to plan a base rush but this is more applicable to clan match's I guess since that type of stuff takes very little time to put together. I must agree with firewater though, general upgrades should have a higher priority.

I ushally think of mt like a bonus, its kinda like armor #3 <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'>

Fat_Man_Little_Coat · December 2003

Hmm... There really isn't as solid answer to give, since it largely determines on a lot of different things.

For one, how good are your marines? If they're a good shot, then push to lvl3 guns. If they're not that good, then lvl2 or 3 armour. If really bad, then maybe you should consider motion even.

These are the things that you as a commander have to determine, which is why it helps to play on a familiar server when commanding. You'll have a better knowledge of how good your marines are, what their strengths are as a team, and what the enemies weaknesses will be.

Stakhanov · December 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (That Annoying Kid @ Dec 1 2003, 07:02 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> ...silence eliminates motion tracking if you come up behind them  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
errrm that's supposed to be the other way around , with MT you can notice sneaky silent skulks early enough to catch them. If your marines aren't intelligent enough to look around sometimes as they have MT , then turretfarming becomes a viable option...

lagger · December 2003

May I just add I would proabably op for an upgraded armory before either w3/a2/mt <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'>.

MadcapMagician · December 2003

Yes, upgraded armory is usually my second upgrade after armor 1. I try to have both going in 3-4 minutes.

hyperionjjliu · December 2003

weapon 3 always BEFORE armor 2 and this is why:

armor 0 = 2 skulk bites
armor 1 = 3 skulk bites (a HUGE leap)
armor 2 = STILL 3 skulk bites
armor 3 = 4 skulk bites (which is a massive jump from 2, but getting here takes a lot of res)

each level of weapon upgrades decrease the number of bullets you need to kill each life form by a 1-3 bullets (but the lifeform may also have carapace or regen, which may increase his/her lifespan tremendously even with weapons ups)

Therefore, the most logical way to go about upgrades is ...
1) In a situation where you do NOT plan on getting HA anytime soon (and instead, you might want to do the jp rush)
armor 1 (to give your marines that 1 extra skulk bite ... which is again, HUGE!), weapons 1, weapons 2, weapons 3, armor 2, armor 3 (if you ever get to armor 2 and 3)

since the jump from armor 1 to armor 2 is not that grade in a normal marine's armor, I would rather get weapons upgrades BEFORE armor 2

2) In a situation where you want to go for the HA/HMG rush (if you can pull off the res)
armor 1, armor 2, armor 3, weapons 1, weapons 2, weapons 3.

This is good because each armor level gives you 30 extra armor which absorbs 95% of the damage thus only damaging you by 5% (and the damage done to armor is halfed ... at least in 2.0)

This is my personal preference as comm and I find that it works fairly well in many situations <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

hyperionjjliu · December 2003

hmm ... for alien structures, level 3 lmg does MORE damage than level 0 hmg PER BULLET (but since hmg has a much faster rate of fire, hmg will do more damage in the long run) ... since hmg's only do a base of 10 damage to strcutures where a level 3 lmg will do 13.

and level 0 HA is definitely better than level 3 LA. Level 3 LA is 110 armor which absorbs 60% of the damage, and still dealing 40% to you. Level 0 HA is 200 armor and absorbs 95% of the damage, and only dealing a measely 5% to you.

Just to give you an idea:
We've established that at Level 3 LA, it takes 4 skulk bites to drop a marine provided no med packs or welding is given.

At level 0 HA with 200 armor and 95% absorption:
Bite 1, You have 96 HP left, 164 armor
Bite 2, You have 92 HP left, 128 armor
Bite 3, You have 88 HP left, 92 armor
Bite 4, You have 82 HP left, 56 armor
Bite 5, You have 78 HP left, 20 armor
Bite 6, You have 42 HP left, 0 armor
Bite 7, You are dead

As you can see, Level 0 HA lets you survive for almost TWICE as many bites as that of level 3 LA armor ... and honestly, if you can't drop a single skulk in level 0 HA, even if you just have a lmg, then you need more practice.

However, also take into consideration that level 3 LA after research is free per respawn, a level 0 HA is not ... its 20 res.

Also, in many cases, i prefer MT over level 3 weapons, because MT gives you and/or your group of marines an early warning of an approaching lifeform ... just pray that its not an onos <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tiny.gif'>

Norml_E_High · December 2003

IMO, you should always get weapons 3 before armor 2. The only real advantage to armor after level 1 is level 3, level 1 is 3 bites, level 3 is 4. Level 2 doesn't make TOO much of a difference, not nearly as much as having weapons 3. 3 bites plus max damage weapons will probably keep the aliens from even getting a hit, and if they do, the marine will most likely be able to finish the skulk.

ASnogarD · December 2003

IMO its better to give your marines the means to kill the enemy than to protect your marines from the enemy - hit the enemy before they hit you type philosophy.

Of course once the weapons and MT is in place start throwing some res into armour.

Nothing more annoying than having good armour but lacking the firepower, imo.

XCan · December 2003

Just curious, how can the lmg ditch out more damage/bullet than hmg? I thought lmg was 10hp lvl0, 13 at lvl3?

Armor Two Or Weapon Three?

Comments