Sensory Counters.

explodingheadboy · August 2003

<div class="IPBDescription">Learn to use foward placement of the obs</div> The aliens really like to use the sensory chambers to cloak stuff... Heres a tip most people seem to be ignoring... place observatories on your offensive fronts. Got a little outpost? You better place an obs there. Secured a hive? You better place an obs in there too. Otherwise aliens and gorges can walts right in and ignore your mines/turrets. Even gestate and build in secret. A hive could go up with your turrets surrounding it without you even noticing. And those cloaked WoL's? They're totally exposed with an obs behind the wall.

Learn to place and defend those observatories, it'll greatly benefiet you marines out there. It's better than constantly sensor sweeping isnt it?

Typhon · August 2003

Yep. Aliens drop sens in all their secured locations, marines need to learn to do the equivalent.

Arcadius · August 2003

Shhhhhh, don't tell the marines that. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'> I love to cover the map in sensory chambers. Something about being cloaked the whole time as I cross the map until right before I attack that I just love.

RaVe · August 2003

Finally another person who doesnt think that sensories are unstoppable

But you really shouldn't have spilled it,you could've let them learn it the hard way =\

n4s7y · August 2003

Did this in my first comm victory. won <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>. Yup, observers rule. If you have no money, just scan and siege.

Talesin · August 2003

Remember the first time this happened, while I was playing on the alien side. Was ns_mineshaft, and they put up a minibase at the double res node. No problem... sneak up, drop a line of SCs toward it, and... wait. Why aren't I cloaked?
We got ripped apart. So /very/ ingratiating to find that some comms are catching on. And why I'm leaning on most to hit Movement first at this point, just in case. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

BugBrain · August 2003

Ohh, so a Obs scrambels SC cloaking for a certain distance? I did not know this. About how big a radius is it? Does it also scramble the personal claoking upgrade, too?

include · August 2003

Yeah, I drop an Observatory at every outpost I build.

BabelFish · August 2003

I find that it works the other way too, as marines when asulting a hive have the comm do a ping and look for the one sensory... for some odd reason aliens always like to stick it right in the middle of the room and only one in any one outpost, take that out and a large part of their defense goes *poof*. also, if you find where a sense is REMEBER IT. when assulting that place shoot the sense to light it up for your teammates and again bring down one of the cornerstones of a room's defense.

include · August 2003

I only wish there was a "attack target at waypoint" for chambers.

You know...scan, target sensory, marines see the "attack target" icon in the room. Not

"No! Turn around, it's...right there! no! backwards, little left, look out! skulk!"

wlibaers · August 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BabelFish @ Aug 2 2003, 01:20 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> I find that it works the other way too, as marines when asulting a hive have the comm do a ping and look for the one sensory... for some odd reason aliens always like to stick it right in the middle of the room and only one in any one outpost, take that out and a large part of their defense goes *poof*. also, if you find where a sense is REMEBER IT. when assulting that place shoot the sense to light it up for your teammates and again bring down one of the cornerstones of a room's defense.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
Not when I've been playing gorge in the area you visited. I prefer to put them in dark corners, on top of stuff, and several per room if I can afford it. Sometimes, I just go skulk to get to a good spot for dropping them where a non-JP marine won't get them. Or, even better, in vents. Sometimes you can get them in a vent next to the marine base very early in the game. If that's before the commander gets an observatory, that can really help the raiding skulks.

I do think it would be useful to have sensory / observatory coverage circles on the map.

instant · August 2003

I haven't played many games and only been commander once. I'd also like to know what the radius of the observatory is also.

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

Niteowl · December 2003

ah, sorry for bumping this topic, but didn't wanna start a new thread if one was already up <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

so, one can see this thread is REALLY old, back in the day when sensory was king <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'> however, seems to be somewhat of a consensus that SC first == lose :/

could we get the most common counters for SC first? i find it can really throw me off my usual gameplan when comming.

these are the counters i know of

-obs first, and possibly 2 obs, to sweep like crazy
-2 hive lockdown, with obs at each outpost
-elecing RTs

only problem is, i rarely do these, and SC first rarely comes up. so that's why it usually throws me.

any other useful counters?

DTStrongBad · December 2003

Persoannly i like sc first specially with player who know what they are doing. They work great on illing the rambo and the rt builders and bye bye rt <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'> i did that in a game i ws in last nite i was like friggin Nightcrawler from X2 popping in and out attacking b cuz of sc close by <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'> i took out 3 sets of 3-4 guys at a time it was great!!! If you have aliens working together and listenning scs as a first upgrade is great. Even the "elite" mariner in our clan got eaten by my little skulker it is effective to an effective alein team as for counters the best way to keep your outpost "safe" is to have an obs there other wise bye bye outpost as well i do this on many pub servers and easiliy win games for aliens even when the odds are against us. That obs and listening to fellow rines on to where that sc is is key other wise you are ded so rines listen to your partners!!! Personnally you would never kill all my cloaks in a hive or other loc. b cuz i al ways place 1 obvious others in vents or too high to reach for un jp'd rines so <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'>

Come check out da skills ill post ip later i only have name now:
[2iD]ShadowLand
psst... and F.Y.I No swaering aloud!!!!!

-[2iD]Bill D. Hives[PvT]

Cereal_KillR · December 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (n4s7y @ Aug 2 2003, 07:05 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Did this in my first comm victory. won <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
sorry to be ignorant, but how can you have a first comm victory WITHOUT winning?

remi · December 2003

Scanner sweeps are god... just wish they'd last a bit longer/get renewed faster, but that would make rines have a much larger advantage against SC...

skulker · December 2003

Unless the marines are hacking, running in software mode or otherwise cheating. Quite the common factor in games these days. Fortunately, hax don't make smarter players but it's annoying.

gg hax..
gg cheating..

Skulker

Cereal_KillR · December 2003

no, you don't need to cheat to see cloaked units. Cloaked units (by the upgrade) aren't totally invisible. Rather, they have a faint outline which can be seen, mostly when that unit is moving and on a nicely lit area. ie: easier on veil than on lost.

If it's in the range of a SC though, tey should be 100% invisible (but can be heard)

BlackMage · December 2003

observe:
aliens use sensory, they start winning. to counter comms place obs
as more comms put obs, aliens move away from sensory
as aliens move away from sensory, less comms place obs (save res)
as less comms place obs, more aliens use sensory

darwinism of fragism

SDJason · December 2003

/me will never forget the game where i got BOTH hives up on a 2 hive lockdown...... and we came bakc and (almost) won on mineshaft because we went sensory first and the comm diddnt build any observatories at the hive locations....

We still lost cuz they sieged one of em.. and phased to the other as soon as they saw onos charging and xeno skulks ( got hives up but team had no organization to take out the huge farms that existed at the hives)

~Jason

Edit: had two stories confused here... added in the almost to reflect the story im trying to tell here.. the other one involved a 1 hive lockdown and we did come back to win once the 3rd hive was up...

~Jason

lolfighter · December 2003

It's quite simple: SCs give aliens the edge anywhere there ain't any observatories nearby. It's their game wherever there isn't one. Where there IS one, however, they are forced to play defensively: They have nothing that aids them in attacking. Play their game and you surely lose. Force them to play yours and you win. If they go SC first, fortify your positions. They count on you to use the normal relatively loose and spread out marine strategies. Fortify everything you get. Turtle up around your four or five resnodes and get that Heavy Train rolling - they won't be able to stop it. Make sure to make use of phasegates: If your marines have to trek through hostile territory to reinforce your strongholds, they'll die. And no reinforcements means that you lose those strongholds sooner or later.

Shockeh · December 2003

I dunno lol, the standard anti-train tactic with Sens goes along the ling of....

1 Oni, as many skulks as you can muster. Oni cloaks in (NOTE) random corridor, thus less likely to be pinged (comms always <i>say, yeah, I ping everywhere, in practise they don't tend to</i>) and waits for train. As it arrives, it leaves it as late as possible and then just spams stomp, over & over. The skulks do the munching.

Works pretty well, and bizarrely the only important marine to be stomped is the GL'er, otherwise the skulks get popped.

Niteowl · December 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (lolfighter @ Dec 4 2003, 08:43 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Turtle up around your four or five resnodes and get that Heavy Train rolling - they won't be able to stop it. Make sure to make use of phasegates: If your marines have to trek through hostile territory to reinforce your strongholds, they'll die. And no reinforcements means that you lose those strongholds sooner or later.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
ah yes, you're right, of course. amazing, for a swede to be so astute <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

turtling is just so against my grain, i sometimes forget i need to do it depending on the situation.

an SC is totally counter to my usual comm style. DANG YOUALIENS!! DAAAANG YOU TO HEEEECK!!!!

now i remember that most successful crushes over SC first are turtling.

Fatalis · December 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (explodingheadboy @ Aug 1 2003, 11:20 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> A hive could go up with your turrets surrounding it without you even noticing.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
No, it cannot: if the hive is within the fov of a turret, the turret will start fireing at it before it cloaks and keep it uncloaked. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'>

Lucid · December 2003

upgrades are the counter to everything

HOLLich · December 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Fatalis @ Dec 5 2003, 12:10 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (explodingheadboy @ Aug 1 2003, 11:20 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> A hive could go up with your turrets surrounding it without you even noticing. </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
No, it cannot: if the hive is within the fov of a turret, the turret will start fireing at it before it cloaks and keep it uncloaked. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
Well, you could always do the good old diversion! Have a few <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'> / <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/fade.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='fade.gif'> run around, maybe being healed by the <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif'> as fatty puts up the hive. Likely, a phase gate will be there, but most often, you just need, what, 3-5 seconds for the hive to become cloaked and totally invisible to the <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='turret.gif'> ? And have the <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'> keep attacking, dying as if they WERE trying to clear out the outpost (*wink*). <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/fade.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='fade.gif'> , of course, should run to get healed.

Of course, all that needs to happen is one bullet from a <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif'> , but it's a 40-res chance to take in order to get level 2/3 abilities and another chamber.

As to seeing cloaked aliens, I'm not sure if SCs make them totally invisible. I *did*, however, start a topic about whether my computer was faulty, or if you CAN partially see cloaked aliens. Their reply was that I was seeing normally. Highly alphaed out, but you can see them moving. Especially when they're walking in a lighted hallway. Thus, as marine, I always watch when sensories are used. Slows me down, but I'm caught off guard less.

Sensory Counters.

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