Deus Ex 2 Invisible War
<div class="IPBDescription">my review</div> I loved the first game, Now I raced out to get the second one, and Im really dissapointed.
This game is NO WHERE as good as the origional
NO WHERE, If you have never played the first then maybe its another average game. For all those fans, of the first you will cry.
They have dumbed downed simplified, console ised everything
There are no more large expansive maps like in the first. Remember Liberty island for example? How you could go anywhere? Now almost all the missions are inside in cramped hallways. The liberty mission u can do is split into 2 smaller missions with about 1/2 the details gotten rid of. Maps have been redudced to console limitations in both detail and complexity.
Map loads are more console like, rather than a seemless one that we PC gamers like. Same with the main interface.
The ammunition is now "unified" and there are no alternate ammuniton types <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo--> They also got rid of reloading as well.
Remember sneaking upon someone and puttig a bullet in the back of the head in the first game?
Localised Damage has been removed
Now you can sneak up on someone and shoot them multiple times in the face and have no affect than if you shot them in the chest.
In IW. Also enemy units dont become hostile until after you have shot them repeatedly. They just stand there otherwise.
Speaking of AI, its pretty lacking, in almost every way. ALl they do is mindlessly attack you. If you go around a corner, they wont follow you, they will crash ito the corner.
The old DX RPG elements wit the biomods have been severely dumbed down.
The developers made the games the exact same on the console verison as the PC. They said this repeatedly in the developing process. This is anything and everything from the most fitting screen resolution with UI Text , simplified level design, etc.
Developers even stated as to the PC game, "compromises had to be made so gaming would be the same as the X Box version" These compromises included "making the game fit into x box requirements."
in the first DX you could customise your character and playing style, you could be stealthy and snipe people and take them down one by one, or you could make yourself into a human tank and just run all over blasting away. This whole concept has been greatly simplified and everything seems more generic. In the first game upgradeing your charcter was rare and hard. (to get bio canisters etc) You had to work for them and then make some serious decisions as to your playing style, It still has its RPG elelments, but its a far cry of what it once was. Now you will have so many upgrade canisters you dont know what to do with.
The inventory interface is really lacking and I miss the old one.
This game had lots of potential , and then they really oversimplifed everything. <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
If you want to see what other people said go here.
<a href='http://forums.eidosgames.com' target='_blank'>http://forums.eidosgames.com</a>
go to DX:IW section
This game is NO WHERE as good as the origional
NO WHERE, If you have never played the first then maybe its another average game. For all those fans, of the first you will cry.
They have dumbed downed simplified, console ised everything
There are no more large expansive maps like in the first. Remember Liberty island for example? How you could go anywhere? Now almost all the missions are inside in cramped hallways. The liberty mission u can do is split into 2 smaller missions with about 1/2 the details gotten rid of. Maps have been redudced to console limitations in both detail and complexity.
Map loads are more console like, rather than a seemless one that we PC gamers like. Same with the main interface.
The ammunition is now "unified" and there are no alternate ammuniton types <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo--> They also got rid of reloading as well.
Remember sneaking upon someone and puttig a bullet in the back of the head in the first game?
Localised Damage has been removed
Now you can sneak up on someone and shoot them multiple times in the face and have no affect than if you shot them in the chest.
In IW. Also enemy units dont become hostile until after you have shot them repeatedly. They just stand there otherwise.
Speaking of AI, its pretty lacking, in almost every way. ALl they do is mindlessly attack you. If you go around a corner, they wont follow you, they will crash ito the corner.
The old DX RPG elements wit the biomods have been severely dumbed down.
The developers made the games the exact same on the console verison as the PC. They said this repeatedly in the developing process. This is anything and everything from the most fitting screen resolution with UI Text , simplified level design, etc.
Developers even stated as to the PC game, "compromises had to be made so gaming would be the same as the X Box version" These compromises included "making the game fit into x box requirements."
in the first DX you could customise your character and playing style, you could be stealthy and snipe people and take them down one by one, or you could make yourself into a human tank and just run all over blasting away. This whole concept has been greatly simplified and everything seems more generic. In the first game upgradeing your charcter was rare and hard. (to get bio canisters etc) You had to work for them and then make some serious decisions as to your playing style, It still has its RPG elelments, but its a far cry of what it once was. Now you will have so many upgrade canisters you dont know what to do with.
The inventory interface is really lacking and I miss the old one.
This game had lots of potential , and then they really oversimplifed everything. <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
If you want to see what other people said go here.
<a href='http://forums.eidosgames.com' target='_blank'>http://forums.eidosgames.com</a>
go to DX:IW section
Comments
Don't blame the consoles, Max Payne had limitations too, and they just seperated the levels to keep the same amount of detail, if they weren't lazy they could do that here.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Map loads are more console like, rather than a seemless one that we PC gamers like. Same with the main interface.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I want to know what games you play, because Halo, Max Payne 2, Medal of Honor (All of them), Aliens versus Predator 2, and MANY others, do not have seamless level loading (unless you count the Xbox version of Halo...that was nice, no stopping). However, my PC version loads all the time, as does my Max Payne 2. Then again, I'm poor and only have 256MB of RAM...maybe on your super 1GB RAM computer everything but DX:IW loads instantly?
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The ammunition is now "unified" and there are no alternate ammuniton types <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo--> They also got rid of reloading as well.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> and <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The inventory interface is really lacking and I miss the old one.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Those are just retarded design decisions, and are also not affected by consoles. I've never seen a game with unified ammo on a console. Halo, Desert Storm, Timesplitters 2, Half-Life...unified ammo is retarded no matter where it was...Heck, True Lies on the Genesis didn't even have unified ammo (man that game was fun).
The inventory system does suck though. Terribly designed pos .
It's not the consoles fault if a company screws up their design elements, DX:IW is completely the un-fun compared to DX...which I haven't even played that much of (because I'm poor and it was a friends).
I want to know what games you play, because Halo, Max Payne 2, Medal of Honor (All of them), Aliens versus Predator 2, and MANY others, do not have seamless level loading (unless you count the Xbox version of Halo...that was nice, no stopping). However, my PC version loads all the time, as does my Max Payne 2. Then again, I'm poor and only have 256MB of RAM...maybe on your super 1GB RAM computer everything but DX:IW loads instantly?
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The ammunition is now "unified" and there are no alternate ammuniton types <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo-->? They also got rid of reloading as well.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> and <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The inventory interface is really lacking and I miss the old one.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Those are just retarded design decisions, and are also not affected by consoles. I've never seen a game with unified ammo on a console. Halo, Desert Storm, Timesplitters 2, Half-Life...unified ammo is retarded no matter where it was...Heck, True Lies on the Genesis didn't even have unified ammo (man that game was fun).
The inventory system does suck though. Terribly designed pos .
It's not the consoles fault if a company screws up their design elements, DX:IW is completely the un-fun compared to DX...which I haven't even played that much of (because I'm poor and it was a friends). <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No no no im not trying to blame the consoles for everything sorry if I made it sound that way. The developers did screw a lot of things up, and I hate them for making this new game very lacking compaired to the old one.
I dont think i said ammo is unifed in a console, im just sayingin general its unifed and thats bad no matter what system u play on. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Well, so ID can't get the money at least. Okay...al done.
To review:
DX:IW - bad because of terrible design flaws.
HL2 - not coming out for a long time, you should buy two copies
Evil outer space aliens - your loving friends compared to DX:IW <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> .
Okay, it's not that bad, it just runs slowly no matter how good your computer is and it's not as fun as the first one.
The dumbing down of humanity is complete.
I think the same thing will happen with Half-Life 2 BTW
I think with today’s "bottom line profit" mentality in game development its nearly impossible for follow up games to live up to expectations.
I think the same thing will happen with Half-Life 2 BTW
I think with today’s "bottom line profit" mentality in game development its nearly impossible for follow up games to live up to expectations. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
As far as I can tell, the only reason DX:IW sucks is because it was dumbed down for consoles.
HL2 is pretty simple in gameplay if you think about it. Many of its unique features are seamlessly integrated, so even if it was ported to a console it wouldnt need dumbing down. With DX:IW you have the whole inventory system, the biomods, all that crap.
I dont know how long you've been playing but I got my hands on HL when it came out, and it completely changed my outlook on gaming and FPS in general.
Since that day HL has been my benchmark for many different games. So far the only things that come remotely close are Red Faction (and Red Faction 2 was a pile of crap) and Operation Flashpoint (thank jesus for Codemasters)
I'm not holding my breath.
EDIT: Hahah you should see the convo I'm having with my friend on this:
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->This is ION STORM, NOT ******* EA GAMES<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Suffice to say, I shall not be buying this sequel though. It *does* sound like it's been dumbed down for the consoles. Not because of the XBox's spec; the complexities of the original have been removed to appeal the console gaming market. Think: the civilisation series would never get released now because its too complex. And it wouldn't work on a console.
What is it with games these days ? Where have all the RPGs elements gone ? Where's the complexity ? Where's the thinking ? It seems that games like Deus Ex and System Shock 2 that were the equivalent of the thinking man's totty have now been turned into games that are like the Beckhams: all flash and no substance. And appeal to the instant gratification market. Sure, I like to pick up a game sometimes and just play. But sometimes I also want to sit with a game and explore it too, have a think, do something different ...
*sigh*
ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww
Not looking forward to this now....
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Creep, 100% agreed and quoted because I thought it was that good. Well played.
So it's Serious Deus Sam Ex now?
I really, really liked the first DX (It's a funny story, really: I just formatted my computer and couldn't find my sound card drivers, so I played DX without sound or music. Still, I simply loved the game. Sometime after I finished the game I had my dad download the drivers at the place he works at (we didn't have broadband back then, about 40 meg download) and I reinstalled the game. I noticed that I really hated the soundscape in DX, probably because of my crappy ol' Yamaha sound card. I deleted DX instantly because I had finished it before and I didn't really have any reason to play it again since the sounds were so bad <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->)
After reading Cpl.Davis' post I really got to rethink about buying DX:IW... Sounds like just some random FPS now <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
The nublar bit is it worked fine when were we back on DX8.
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Creep, 100% agreed and quoted because I thought it was that good. Well played. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thanks Shockwave.
Don't blame the consoles, Max Payne had limitations too, and they just seperated the levels to keep the same amount of detail, if they weren't lazy they could do that here.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Im not ragging on your post, im just now (that I have time) explaining what I meant. heehee
On any map, in a city block for example, where in the first DX you could seemlessly travel from one part of a huge map to another, (open a door to go down to subway, open a door to go into a bar etc)
now every time you do something short of open a closet door the game asks you if you are sure you want to travel to this pat of the map, then after you select "Yes" it has to load that area of the map which takes like 10 seconds. Even on my realitivly fast PC 2.36 gighrzs.
Then if you want to go back you have to do this process all over. Sometimes if a mission requirement means you have to go from point A to point B you have to go through this loading "loading are you sure you want to open this door to this small room crap" every time!
This isnt like changing the entire map or a new mission such as in max payne etc. This is simply going to stuff on the same map. The first DX game loaded a huge map at the start and u never had to load again until you went to an entirely different setting. Like from NY to Hong Cong or something.-
This new set up is just annoying and interupts the flow of gamplay.I was once being chased by som guys, I tried to run away and had to stop 3 times for it to load the next room. I felt like I was playing Myst or something lol.
GG UK.
edit: just read an interview with Spector, and it looks like he's not the one to blame -- rather, we have him NOT playing a bigger role in its making to blame...
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Warren Spector: My role on Deus Ex 2 is chief kibitzer, more than anything. A bunch of people have asked me what I'm doing, and how has my role changed, and all that sort of stuff. And what's the biggest challenge on the project. That's what's relevant here. For me the biggest challenge is backing off and letting Harvey Smith's team make their game. I was so involved and so emotionally invested in Deus Ex that the thought of diving back into another one was kind of scary. I didn't want to do it.
I could feel myself getting more and more conservative. "Of course you have to play JC Denton." "What do you mean we should cut the skills system?" I mean, everything was like let's make the same game, which is absolutely the wrong thing to do. And I've been working with Harvey at least ten years now, I don't know exactly how long, but he deserves a shot... at making his game. He understands Deus Ex at least as much as I do. He was lead designer on the last one, and responsible of so much that made the game great. (If I can say that... sorry, that sounded egotistical beyond words.)
...on the next game we're really trying to stick to the deep simulation thing and get much more of our gameplay out of simulation and less out of designer creativity and hard work.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You can tell he's not happy with the way things were going, but has to keep his mouth shut for PR reasons =p he's a very wise man:
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I don't like the idea of making decisions to appeal to a particular kind of audience. Obviously we want the maximum number of people to play and enjoy our games. But fundamentally, we make the games that we want to play, we make games that satisfy us, and that please us. And we hope there's a large enough audience out there that agrees with us.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
ugh, maybe it IS partially his fault, he basically admits to condoning dumbing down games:
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->God, I will never dumb down a game, I will use the word "never." No, I mean, the word we use around here, and I hope no one in our audience hears this in a bad way -- accessibility is the word here, and a lot of people hear "accessibility" and get scared. "Ooh, they're simplifying. Ooh, they're dumbing down." No. What we want is, as many people as humanly possible to experience the kind of gameplay we provide. I mean, anyone who says "Yeah, I want a smaller audience. I don't want a lot of people to see my work." Go back to Greenwich Village and put on a beret and whatever.
We want a lot of people playing these games, and the reality is -- let me give you a classic example -- the reality is that a lot of the games that hardcore gamers love, that I love, that we love, that I worked on, were inaccessible to normal human beings, unnecessarily. I went to Gen Con, which is a big consumer role-playing show, years ago. On one computer I was showing System Shock, and on the other I was showing CyberMage. I'll leave your readers to decide which of those games was great, which of those games was terrible, whether one was better than the other, I'm not even going to get into that.
I will tell you that I looked at grown men grab the mouse, put their hands on the keyboard in System Shock, and within 30 seconds get themselves crouching, leaned into a corner, unable to move, and walk away from the computer. And I saw seven year old kids reach up -- they were shorter than the pedestal on which we had the joystick -- reach up and have a great time with CyberMage, for half an hour. Now, does it matter which one of those games is better? If grown men can't figure out your interface, they're not going to enjoy your game. They're not going to play your game. They're not going to find out how great it is or isn't. So what we have to do is make our gameplay accessible to as many people as possible. Is that dumbing down? I don't think so. I don't think so. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
so maybe I spoke too soon... he recognizes that System Shock was a better game than CyberMage, he recognizes that GameSpy readers would agree... why does he think the fact that you couldn't learn the controls to System Shock in 30 seconds is a bad thing? Just because it's not the sort of game you can learn while passing by at a convention doesn't mean he should make it more 'accessible'...
eh, who are we kidding. the gaming industry is like hollywood -- the crappy games and movies will always sell better, and the true fans and critics will always be disappointed...
(btw full article is <a href='http://www.gamespy.com/interviews/february03/spectordx2/index.shtml' target='_blank'>here</a>, and it's rather old.
stealth all the way and if i have to kill someone i tend to use melee <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Also, I was right in saying that humanity is slowly evolving into two different species. The intelligent overlord minority (eg. us) and the subservient, strong race (e.g. people who cant handle thinking in their games and dumb american football jocks)
EDIT: I also thought the unified ammo was annoying, seeing as if you run out of it you get to pull out your knife and stab away. Not fun. I prefer the spray-and-pray-whip-out-a-pistol-and-shoot-randomly-and-THEN-start-stabbing-wildly approach. Also, the graphics did'nt really seem all that great. Not to metion the fact that you can throw metal barrels at people and have them do nothing but flinch a little. I want to see them go flying, or get knocked to the floor or something. Really.
Was the fun in DX really managing skills, ammo, and biomods? The story is the real reason to buy this game, and it's good.