Resource Model For Larger Games

Sight · December 2003

<div class="IPBDescription">Will it change in 3.0?</div> Since the game as of version 2.01e is balanced for 6v6 games, and most pubservers are running at about 10v10 the aliens suffer, horribly.

So I'm just asking a simple question, will the resource model change to make aliens viable in larger games as of 3.0?

Cheers, Sight

7Bistromath · December 2003

Balanced for 6v6? WTH?

I obviously play a completely different kind of NS than you do.

Sight · December 2003

The game is balanced for clanplay, clans play 6v6, thus the game is balanced for 6v6.

Zek · December 2003

If the game is balanced for clanplay alone then it is not balanced, period. The majority of NS players play on pubs.

im_lost · December 2003

Amazingly, when I go onto a pub server with 20+ players, I will usually play 3 or 4 games, and usually aliens will win all of them, or at best the marines might win half the time. It doesn't make any sense, but that's what I generally see.

BOBDolol · December 2003

That's probably because most pub players can't aim as well as clan players. A 10 vs 10 clan play would result in alien loss because the marines usually have above-average to godlike aim, and the spawn and resource rate for aliens is so slow

Byeka · December 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zek @ Dec 16 2003, 07:30 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> If the game is balanced for clanplay alone then it is not balanced, period. The majority of NS players play on pubs.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
So true

7Bistromath · December 2003

I often see the best balance at 8v8 and 10v10, and I honestly think this has more to do with the res mechanic and the relative speed of expansion than aim.

Aea · December 2003

It all has to do with the teamwork factor of both teams <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

FrickenMoron · December 2003

Dont forget that the res overflow system is back. As soon as somebody reaches 100 res, it overflows to the other teammates.

Winter · December 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (i'm lost @ Dec 16 2003, 06:34 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Amazingly, when I go onto a pub server with 20+ players, I will usually play 3 or 4 games, and usually aliens will win all of them, or at best the marines might win half the time. It doesn't make any sense, but that's what I generally see.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
No sir, you don't make any sense.

CommunistWithAGun · December 2003

....To answer your question the resource model is the same one

ubermensch · December 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> ([ADEMA] Everwinter @ Dec 17 2003, 06:19 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> </span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (i'm lost @ Dec 16 2003, 06:34 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Amazingly, when I go onto a pub server with 20+ players, I will usually play 3 or 4 games, and usually aliens will win all of them, or at best the marines might win half the time. It doesn't make any sense, but that's what I generally see. </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
No sir, you don't make any sense.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
Hmm, odd. Makes perfect sense to me.

Snidely · December 2003

Maybe they should try having it so that each alien gets 1/6 of a res per cycle per rt, as opposed to the current system of 1/n per cycle per rt (where n is number of players).

XCan · December 2003

To be completely honest, if you think games that are or larger than 20 players is balanced, or that the aliens are winning more, you haven't played enough NS or are playing on unexperienced servers.

Roger_Dodger · December 2003

Yo CWAG i also thought i read somewhere about res overflow coming back aswell?? Has that been changed again?

- RD

godzilla21 · December 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (FrickenMoron @ Dec 17 2003, 01:24 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Dont forget that the res overflow system is back. As soon as somebody reaches 100 res, it overflows to the other teammates.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
I don't think res overflow helps aliens at all.

You don't go Onos when you have 100res in order to flow res for your teammates ?
How many Onos can survive until he has 100res again ?
How long Ons can survive after he has 100res ?

It is quite rare that res overflow happens in NS 2.0x.

Epidemic · December 2003

10(+) vs 10(+) Aliens pwns marines with map control and usually long end game where marines are cramped up in base
5(-) vs 5(-) Aliens get an onos real quick and win the game with ease.

Turkey2 · December 2003

res overflow is a minor change, although it would happen more often than you say. Quite regularly when I go fade I'll hit 100 before I die, usaully by then I put up the third hive and fade again. A lot of fades simply dont die during pub games. A lot has to do with skill on both sides, usually the fade has a lot and the marines do not. Or the comm fails to support the marines in trying to kill the fade. I think we may start seeing some interesting things with overflow though, like the old style. Some people who skulk all game except for res and a hive So they can get a teamate up to onos res faster. The real benefit of overflow will be endgame though, when you have all the nodes and have marines trapped in base or a hive.

As to the original question though as many have stated 8v8 or possibly 7v7 is the closest to balance you can get. Possibly adjusting so its balanced for 9v9 might be nice, but I think the issue thats not stated here is why dont leagues change teamsize to fit the balance instead of playing 1-1 ties all the time and relying on the coin toss... Even something as simple as 7v7 would give marines a better chance and hopefully in the end give the better team a 2-0.

Forlorn · December 2003

Res system still sucks for large games, and aliens should always be raped in large games of 2.01 else your marine team blows.

ZdrozZ · December 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Turkey22 @ Dec 17 2003, 10:14 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> A lot of fades simply dont die during pub games.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
Don't worry about that, fades will die in 3.0 <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'>

Wither · December 2003

Res overflow <b>is</b> back.

Haunted · December 2003

Why can't they just balance it at 10 vs 10 and clans get more members?

Is that so hard?

BlueNovember · December 2003

Number of players wanting to be in a Clan < Number of Clans, so no.

Exageration, but have you *seen* the number of clans there are? To make matters worse, people form their own clans rather than joining other's clans. (Well, I did.) And the sheer organisation (including subs,) for 10v10 is just too hard. 6on6 is fine.

Still, Clan mode and Pub mode would solve the problems. At the moment the res system is the same in tourney mode, so that could be changed. NS 3 will change everything, so there's probably not much point.

Forlorn · December 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Haunted @ Dec 17 2003, 12:18 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Why can't they just balance it at 10 vs 10 and clans get more members?

Is that so hard? </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
Yes.

Do you see clanners begging for pubs to be at 6v6 only?

spit_fire · December 2003

i dont think theyve done anything about that yet <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'>

Aaron · December 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (007Bistromath @ Dec 17 2003, 01:42 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> I often see the best balance at 8v8 and 10v10, and I honestly think this has more to do with the res mechanic and the relative speed of expansion than aim.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
Me too. I assumed it was optimized for 8v8 or something. With 6v6 you just have 5 marines and can hardly split them up...what, just 2 groups or something?

7Bistromath · December 2003

It's hard to split them up at all. IME, the smallest effective group for anything more intense than recon or cap rushing is four guys. That means you either use a smaller than effective group, or you've only got one base guard.

Haunted · December 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Still, Clan mode and Pub mode would solve the problems. At the moment the res system is the same in tourney mode, so that could be changed. NS 3 will change everything, so there's probably not much point.
</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

Yeah, I agree that would solve the problem. That, or making a res system that is not dependent on the number of players.

It seems a lot of people are worried about fragmenting the community with two versions of ns, but NEWSFLASH: <b>It's already fragmented!</b>

Pubbers, and clannies are way to different in skill level that trying to balance both is next to impossible. I'll be happily surprised if this isn't the case in 3.0.

Sizer · December 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Epidemic @ Dec 17 2003, 10:07 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> 10(+) vs 10(+) Aliens pwns marines with map control and usually long end game where marines are cramped up in base
5(-) vs 5(-) Aliens get an onos real quick and win the game with ease.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
More like:

10(+) vs 10(+) Individual aliens can't get crap for res, must utilize RFK to get any, and by the time (and if) they go onos, most of the marine team will have shotty/hmg/HA

Stanley_txp · December 2003

flayera needs to develop a dynamic res model, that automaticly adjusts for the #of people on each team.

Resource Model For Larger Games

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