Shotgun/hmg Cone Of Fire...

Skyrage · December 2003

<div class="IPBDescription">...your opinions please...</div> I'd like to know what people feel about the SG/HMG cone of fire at the moment.

I personally feel that the HMG and most certainly the SG feels more like sniper guns than anything else. The SG spread is too narrow to really be called a SG at all. I've been ingame lots of times both as a marine and as khaara, both shooting and recieving lethal long distance shots; which really shouldn't be lethal. Ain't much the damage that is the problem as the number of bullets hitting the target.

The HMG isn't as big of an issue, but a slight increase in the cone would be nice as well. Right now, I feel that it's a tad too accurate for having such a high rate of fire.

Well, anyone want to say otherwise?

Flame on.

Warfare · December 2003

I sometimes killrunning skulks with the shotgun far away because they're wounded, and I hit with at least 2-3 bullets, which is kind of alot to a skulk, but I don't think it's too small. Definantley not a sniper.

But remember, this is sci fi and far up in the AD. We probably have better designed shotguns in "this" year than 2003.
Same with the HMG.

Cyndane · December 2003

I personally agree with the orginal poster. Simple because I have many a time been most of a room away, example, Holo room, marine was sitting on the double res (Not yet capped) and shot me at the entrance with a shotgun. I had full health and died... Granted they had level 2 weapons at the time, but I think that is a bit far away to be hitting with all the bullets. I don't know just my two cents again.

Cereal_KillR · December 2003

what I've hardly even been TOUCHED by a shotgun at far distance. I don't know what you're talking about.

Mystiqq · December 2003

hmm..
I personally havent felt that the HMG cone to be too small.

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>The SG spread is too narrow to really be called a SG at all.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
I think this is wrong way to think about this, the SG should be put in to the whole game balance "context" and if it fits to it, not in the way "if it feels like SG", since the game is not based on realism. If you understand what i mean, cos i suck at explaining, especially in english. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'>

About HMG's, i dont have any idea if they are too accurate, at least it dont "feel" like its sniping at 1000rpm. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'>

Cheers...

XCan · December 2003

I believe the reason for the HMG having the narrow cone as it has atm is because they tried to make it less effective as a melee weapon, if they succeeded or not that's up to you to decide... <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'>

MMZ_Torak · December 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (XCan @ Dec 22 2003, 10:22 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> I believe the reason for the HMG having the narrow cone as it has atm is because they tried to make it less effective as a melee weapon, if they succeeded or not that's up to you to decide... <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'>  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
I'm sorry, I just got an image of a HA marine trying to fend off skulks by beating them with his HMG. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

Hologram0 · December 2003

Large cone promotes spray and pray. I personallly think that the HMG has a bit large of a cone... To me it even seems to fireslowly.... It just doesnt "mow" down things like it used to. The shot gun and the pistol are the only skill based wepons found on the marine side. If the spread of the shot gun was increased it would be too good at close ranged skulks. At this level it requires skil.

rockst4r · December 2003

i guess you're playing a diffrent game. the shotgun has the cone of fire of a shotgun, its perfect. well, sometimes i got nailed with one shot at a distance of 10 meter too. thats luck... get over it

Bobbybirdtree · December 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (rockst4r @ Dec 22 2003, 12:00 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> i guess you're playing a diffrent game. the shotgun has the cone of fire of a shotgun, its perfect. well, sometimes i got nailed with one shot at a distance of 10 meter too. thats luck... get over it  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
What are you talking about? I get killed down the hallway all the time by shotgunners.

rockst4r · December 2003

<img src='http://www.myimgs.com/data/dithizon/ns_veil0045.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image'>

just look at the image.... there cannot a player who hits with 7 pellets everytime at this distance.

PS: i know that the bullet holes do not exactly show where the bullets actually hit. but they show the cone of fire very good.

Verthandi · December 2003

Seriously, start a server, test-fire the shotgun, and observe the spread that occurs over distance. It is ridiculously huge compared to a modern shotgun, but perfect for the sake of gameplay balance.

Also notice that the shotgun has a maximum range of about 15 metres.

Warrior · December 2003

I think its fine.

DEMIURGO · December 2003

Please, please, please my lord, don't let the shotgun become a Railgun 2.0 ....

Mintman · December 2003

WTH to DEMIURGO's post.

I can't fault either weapon, you only die at the other end of a room to a shotgun if they fire off 4+ shots unless you're unlucky. Don't know about you but I don't let shotty marines shoot at me 4+ times before I'm gone if I'm at distance.

HMG is pretty near perfect in my opinion, close range aliens can be pretty hard to get but long range aliens don't get nailed due to the spread. I'd say that was exactly how the HMG should be.

Extreme · December 2003

I think it is near perfect. As you can see by rockst4r's post it has a wide spread already.

remi · December 2003

i think hmg is perfect, but shotty is waaaay too stupid in close range. shotgun at pointblank should kill the skulk, not miss it completely >.<

I think it should have a larger area at real close, and maybe just a smaller cone increase size, or something...

When I'm alien it's great, but I just don't see how marine pointblank shots with a shotgun don't completely rape a skulk.

remi · December 2003

I just don't see why if I'm a skulk, and I leap real close, why if i see an hmg in his hand, i should be more scared then if I see a shotty.

I die much mroe often to hmg.
The only trick to killing shotties is just staying close and moving so they can't get a perfect shot off, and the stupid shotgun physics take care of the rest...

c0mpleX · December 2003

I think its perfect, in fact sometimes i wish it could be MORE concentrated because its stupid to waste ammo on a skulk so far away. I much prefer tracking them without shooting (or firing with pistol) until they are very close, then i make sure my crosshair is right on and blam - even with lvl1 weps its bye-be skulk. Couldnt be easier, all you need is patience. That being said, if more than one skulk is rushing i tend to throw patience out the window and just fire when they get within range <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>i think hmg is perfect, but shotty is waaaay too stupid in close range. shotgun at pointblank should kill the skulk, not miss it completely >.<</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

lol - *hint* maybe you should work on your aim <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'>

Anderval · December 2003

someone else mentioned the max range of an sg at about 10-15m where the pellets cease to exist.

as for medium range shotgunning i often fire at skulks running away when they're wounded it might take several hits to kill them but the rof is fast enough.

imo the shotgun is the <b>only</b> truely balanced weapon in the game, with the possible exception of the gl and pistol. alos: note that the sg is only effective at medium range against skulks and lerks if the spread was any wider it would effect the usefulness against fades.

As for the hmg i think the spread is absoloutly fine but that the rof needs increasing 10% or so.

Tonstar · December 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Hologram0110 @ Dec 22 2003, 11:56 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Large cone promotes spray and pray. I personallly think that the HMG has a bit large of a cone... To me it even seems to fireslowly.... It just doesnt "mow" down things like it used to. The shot gun and the pistol are the only skill based wepons found on the marine side. If the spread of the shot gun was increased it would be too good at close ranged skulks. At this level it requires skil.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
The GL is also another "skilled" weapon on the marines team. although I do agree with you about the hmg...have you noticed if you hold it down from a fresh clip the fire rate seems to almost boost for the last 60-40 bullets?

remi · December 2003

shotty at close range is too precise, i can't seem to hit a skulk with it, it's about as lucky as killing a skulk with a pistol in super close range (while it's running around you) and by the way, I'm talking about when the skulk is within like a foot of you, and you're jumping over it like mad and ****....

medium range shotgun is god, but other then that it isn't really good...
also super good for sneaking up on fades that happne to be weakened by the elec rt they're attacking <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'> (or just sneak up and block the exit so they die)

Last · December 2003

The NS sg spread is WAY larger then it is in HL or TFC etc, what are you talking about? And if you're getting sniped across the room, check your HP. obviously, you won't survive long with only 5 hp and 5 armor.

Trayder · December 2003

I agree that the shotgun spread is pretty much perfect, but i reckon it does too much damage.
It shouldn't be able to kill a skulk at the range it does now, a good or h4x0r shotgunner can kill skulkz as fast as he can fire. I only reccomend a slight little tweak such as maybe 1-3 less damage per pellet just to reduce skulk instagib range by a bit.
The shotguns weakness strangely enough is close combat, as soon as they get close enough to start attacking ur only hope is a lucky shot.

Anyways:

Shotguns are balanced verse gorges fades, lerkz and leaping skulkz.
They are lethal vs onos since stun being nerfed but the extra health should balance it out
They are too powerful vs hives

So i reckon, reduce damage vs buildings like with the hmg (i'd say only hives but that'd require more programming i thinkz)
and make em require 1 extra building or something, just discourages shotty rushes and very early game shottys make less difference

RaVe · December 2003

THe thing is that the shotgun fires the pellets erratically, making them spread all over the place.

And of course, if you get EXTREMELY lucky you can get most of the pellets to hit the center of your crosshair, it's pretty weird, but it's very rare <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

Shotgun/hmg Cone Of Fire...

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