<!--QuoteBegin--[WHO]Them+Dec 28 2003, 03:19 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> ([WHO]Them @ Dec 28 2003, 03:19 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Having experienced both sides of the coin as far as asking for new builds when they're delayed. I have to think that even if the game is unbalanced that it should be released and patched.
Even though combat still has issues with the uncounterable tactics, it's still a friggin fun game to play. I admit that I have no say whatsoever in what happens with the builds. But I think that some of the PT's/VET's/CM's don't understand just how badly the desire is to play the new builds when you can't. It tends to alter your mindset when you've already played it.
How many times have you waited for WEEKS for a new game to come out, then bought it, played it for a weekend, then never touched it again? The same kind of thing happens when you're on the inside of the betas looking out.
Meh, I'm just talking here. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Oh, I understand, I didn't have beta access untill oh...late november. And since then I've learned a lot. Combat is very fun for the first week or so but after you start really getting into the grit of it you understand whats broken. As of right now combat is very linear and to release it now would be a failure, as even though NS will have automatic updates soon, it would turn people off before fixes could be made..
On behalf of the ones that have paitence, (counting 10 so far <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->) PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE! Take as much time as possible to get this out. I'd rather not get to play 3.0 till March then play a buggy, unbalanced version of a game I love. I'd rather be able to play this game without having to resort to tricks and lame tactics just to even have a remote chance of winning. I know that the team will get this version released moderatly soon so they can work on other things (Flayra might be thinking of converting NS to a better gaming engine that many can play the the Q3 engine) but I want them to take a good long time to make sure that this is the best version ever released!
I mean, you don't buy the engine of a car then wait a month later just for the wheels, that's just stupid. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
Right now both NS and NS:C are both a mess. If there were released now, people would think it was great for about a week, and then the complaints would FLOOD in. It's not done.
It's one thing to keep something that's buggy in developement and testing, its another when it takes forever and the release date keeps getting pushed back.
Take microsoft for example, if they didnt release windows the moment they finished it, we would never have it (even with all its security issues).
Squash the bugs and just realease the game to the public, by all means what's left is just balance fixes.
Heck even call it a 3.0 beta but open publically for everyone. Rolling out updates on steam until it's truly balanced for pub and clan play.
Since the bugs are all squashed ( the huge major ones anyways... the game should be deem playable even with a few imbalances... I am sure number changing shouldn't require much coding )
Squash the bugs and just realease the game to the public, by all means what's left is just balance fixes.
Heck even call it a 3.0 beta but open publically for everyone. Rolling out updates on steam until it's truly balanced for pub and clan play.
Since the bugs are all squashed ( the huge major ones anyways... the game should be deem playable even with a few imbalances... I am sure number changing shouldn't require much coding )
does it? prove me wrong someone <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Publa betas failed miserably. Someone can provide you a link to an example, I don't have it.
Squash the bugs and just realease the game to the public, by all means what's left is just balance fixes.
Heck even call it a 3.0 beta but open publically for everyone. Rolling out updates on steam until it's truly balanced for pub and clan play.
Since the bugs are all squashed ( the huge major ones anyways... the game should be deem playable even with a few imbalances... I am sure number changing shouldn't require much coding )
does it? prove me wrong someone <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Publa betas failed miserably. Someone can provide you a link to an example, I don't have it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> not all pubic beta fall miserably Steam was a pubic beta for a while.
For me, It's not the Combat mode I'm waiting for in 3.0, it's full Steam compatibility. This has beccome even more important now that Sven-Coop 3.0 has been released.
Unlike most, I prefer Steam over standard half-life. The main reason being, it fixed more bugs in half-life for me than it created for itself. (Biggest draw card is the ability to alt-tab) Because of this, whenever I have a choice to use a game run on a steam server or one run on standard half life, the choice will go to Steam every time. Same with my friends. I would like to uninstall standard half life as soon as possible, and be rid of it's crappy knee-deep bugs forever, but I can't do that until I can be sure that Natural Selection will run on Steam as well as DoD, or Half-Life itself. Sven Coop is the second last nail in the coffin, but also a catalyst for it to stay around. Sven Coop 3.0 now prevents Natural Selection 2 from starting in Steam!
I guess it would be possible for me to wait, but why not lock out Combat Mode, and release Natural Selection 2.5 with all the bugfixes done so far, including of course, Steam support.
<!--QuoteBegin--TychoQuad+Dec 29 2003, 05:44 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TychoQuad @ Dec 29 2003, 05:44 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> For me, It's not the Combat mode I'm waiting for in 3.0, it's full Steam compatibility. This has beccome even more important now that Sven-Coop 3.0 has been released.
Unlike most, I prefer Steam over standard half-life. The main reason being, it fixed more bugs in half-life for me than it created for itself. (Biggest draw card is the ability to alt-tab) Because of this, whenever I have a choice to use a game run on a steam server or one run on standard half life, the choice will go to Steam every time. Same with my friends. I would like to uninstall standard half life as soon as possible, and be rid of it's crappy knee-deep bugs forever, but I can't do that until I can be sure that Natural Selection will run on Steam as well as DoD, or Half-Life itself. Sven Coop is the second last nail in the coffin, but also a catalyst for it to stay around. Sven Coop 3.0 now prevents Natural Selection 2 from starting in Steam!
I guess it would be possible for me to wait, but why not lock out Combat Mode, and release Natural Selection 2.5 with all the bugfixes done so far, including of course, Steam support. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Its dishearting right now. Classic 3.0 ns is totally playable and scrimmable again but nobody wants to ever play it. Tonights quote of the moment is "Anyone wanna do some reg ns?" "Get out" <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Its dishearting right now. Classic 3.0 ns is totally playable and scrimmable again but nobody wants to ever play it. Tonights quote of the moment is "Anyone wanna do some reg ns?" "Get out" <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's what many of us were afraid of a while back too <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
I have patience for 3.0, then again, I patiently waited for DoD 1.0 and was bitterly let down...
I just want to point out that the home page is telling everyone that NS 3.0 is "nearing release". That kind of implies that things are going pretty well with the playtesting, but the playtesters apparently don't seem to think so from what I'm reading.
Anyway, my thought is that if someone is dying to play 3.0 in its current state, couldn't they simply become a Constellation member? Wouldn't that allow them to try out 3.0?
O btw, I loved you in Top Gun! <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
What forums have most of these "When is NS coming out"/"Hurry up and release NS" posts been in. Cause I never see them when I drop by, possibly because I don't drop by at the right times? Or is it all the in the other forums.
Well, I do wish it would come out soon. I am an admin on a server (p3dr0's hungry hungy onos) and since the "missed" released date there has been a flood of hackers on the server. A few of them were vets and constellation members. i supppose they just want to ruin pub servers so they can go play on thier private ones and drink thier expensive wine, whip children, and roll cigars out of stock... Its really lame and annoying.
<!--QuoteBegin--CommunistWithAGun+Dec 28 2003, 05:05 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CommunistWithAGun @ Dec 28 2003, 05:05 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Its just not finished. Lately there have been quite a few people asking for it, and the attitude on these forums have been....lacking. We beta testers (PTs, Constellation members, Playtesters, etc) Know the same things you all do. We can't estimate something like this. The latest build playtesters got was version 3.0c (3.0d was server side) With it came some welcome changes, and a few nasty bugs, which is why, if released now, NS would be totally unplayable, and Combat would be a very linear, boring game. So Thats why its not out guys. Some of us playtesters (including myself) have been a bit...irritated by all the questions and have been a little hostile. Personally I want to apollogize for my hastyness. I hope 3.0 comes soon, I really do. If anyone wishes to ask me anything they can contact me on IRC or MSN. (Look below) All I ask is that you guys not ask questions about 3.0's release. We just don't have any answers right now in that area. I think we were all hoping for a Christmas release, I think Flay was too, but thats the nature of the beast. Lets just all cut each other some slack. Happy gaming <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Actually, CWAG, this is the official reason 3.0 isn't out, not the unofficial one <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--typical skeleton+Dec 28 2003, 04:34 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (typical skeleton @ Dec 28 2003, 04:34 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> but being entirely uninterested in NS:C, and actually against it (I think it goes against the core concept of NS entirely), it seems pretty silly to try to create another mode when the existing one, obviously, needs more work.
...
And actually, the fact that the game is free means that releasing buggy or slightly unbalanced patches more frequently is acceptable. It's also a good way to keep players interested. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> NS:C isn't meant to replace CNS, it is meant to complement it. It gives new, deathmatch-oriented players (the waning CS and TFC community) a chance to get into the NS universe and learn the combat and upgrade system without polluting CNS games with their n00bness.
CNS is obviously the superior game, but then it can be slow and frustrating at times, depending on one's team. NS:C is just there to let you blow off a little steam between rounds, and to help low-population servers get a boost in traffic.
So, like it or not, I feel it is an ambitious and overall positive thing for the mod.
You're dead wrong, though, about it being acceptable to release patches without much testing. A single bad patch can kill a mod community instantly. As of version 1.1, Frontline Force was bigger than TFC and DoD and was slowly gaining on CS. Then version 1.2 came out, with its wacky suppressive fire, shotgun-of-doom, and spinning corpses, and everyone left. And didn't come back. NS is a great mod, but all it really takes is one really horrible patch to send most of the community off to search for new games. Testing is essential, and when people who've tested say it isn't ready, then it isn't ready.
And 3.0 really isn't ready. Very little has been done to address the balance issues present in 2.x, and the JP/Onos balance in NS:C really needs to be addressed before it is ready for prime time. But then 3.0d has mostly been bug-fixing the new features, without an eye to balance. Expect a couple more revisions, but the progress so far has been really exceptional.
And again, if you're that hyped about the new release, drop a measly $20 and get your game on.
Currently there are 165 bugs in the bug database. Some very minor things like not updated hints, but also quite severe ones, e.g. " mines cannot injure aliens if marine who planted them switches teams" or " weird recycling can cause inability to buy arms lab upgrades".
But that's not everything. There are a lot of complaints about Combat getting very boring after a while and of course the usual "Marines/Aliens are overpowered" complaints. Flayra and Max are fixing bugs like machines and new ones appear each day. Just give them more time. My personal guess is a late Februar, early April release.
Sounds good to me. You guys work your magic on the game and it will be released when its done... <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
-Oh and by the way b4 I read this post I felt the same way as some of the these other people who want the game to come out right away, but now I understand...
<!--QuoteBegin--S2R2+Dec 29 2003, 03:48 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (S2R2 @ Dec 29 2003, 03:48 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Publa betas failed miserably. Someone can provide you a link to an example, I don't have it. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> The desertcombat mod from bf1942, released alphas and every single one of them was popular. The developement team is a little smaller than the NS dev team and the programming is far more complex because it uses the BF1942 engine.
<!--QuoteBegin--Rotten Flesh+Dec 29 2003, 06:36 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Rotten Flesh @ Dec 29 2003, 06:36 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--S2R2+Dec 29 2003, 03:48 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (S2R2 @ Dec 29 2003, 03:48 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Publa betas failed miserably. Someone can provide you a link to an example, I don't have it. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> The desertcombat mod from bf1942, released alphas and every single one of them was popular. The developement team is a little smaller than the NS dev team and the programming is far more complex because it uses the BF1942 engine. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> And that ITSELF is a mod of what engine? Right. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
The HL engine is more complicated then we give it credit. ESPECIALLY with commander mode, res node allocation and everything that stretches the engine.
Give Flayra a break. He probably wants to get drunk off his **** during christmas/newyears. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Delphi+Dec 29 2003, 06:50 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Delphi @ Dec 29 2003, 06:50 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Give Flayra a break. He probably wants to get drunk off his **** during christmas/newyears. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Amen to that.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->And 3.0 really isn't ready. Very little has been done to address the balance issues present in 2.x, and the JP/Onos balance in NS:C really needs to be addressed before it is ready for prime time. But then 3.0d has mostly been bug-fixing the new features, without an eye to balance. Expect a couple more revisions, but the progress so far has been really exceptional.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Okay, if FLF made dramatic changes that compromised gameplay and abandoned the original values, which killed the community, I don't think that's merely a "bad patch". I don't think a public beta of 3.0 right now would cause the community to disintegrate.
If you create a drift in the community, though, with something like Combat, which .. dramatically changes gameplay and essentially throws out the core concept of NS, you do run the risk of killing atleast part of the community.
Obviously the unlikely, and worst case, scenario is that you refresh the server list in Steam and see nothing but co_* servers, and maybe two ns_* servers, one of which is empty and the other is a listenserver that's password protected...
Unlikely? Yeah.. but possible? Well it's fair to say anything is possible. Remember DoD's para maps? Somewhat ill-conceived, many said it turned DoD into CS, and didn't like it. They were quickly dropped.
What's my point? Mostly that I don't think the occasional obnoxious bug runs the risk of "killing" the community as much as an entire new game mode. And what you said about balance also taps into my original point.. that instead of having to sit and worry about Combat balance, the NS team could focus squarely on their original vision -- the RTS/FPS hybrid mode.
And balance that, instead.
For those who waited for 2.0, they may have felt letdown by the fact that, to an extent, the game was "broken". The subsequent patches helped, but more work needs to be done (as always). So why do we need Combat now? Nothing's ever perfect, but still...
I never meant that the NS team should release obviously incomplete patches, however non-game crippling bugs are NOT a major concern. I don't believe I'm "dead wrong" when I say bug-containing patches can be released, and can be accepted more easily by the community when, 1) the game is free, and 2) there's a service like Steam that will ensure they get the new fixes as soon as they're available.
That is the whole point of Steam, to put an end to the "gold rush" of giant patch releases, and allow developers to continously develop, tweak, and fix games somewhat "on the fly".
<!--QuoteBegin--SlothropX+Dec 29 2003, 12:20 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SlothropX @ Dec 29 2003, 12:20 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> You're dead wrong, though, about it being acceptable to release patches without much testing. A single bad patch can kill a mod community instantly. As of version 1.1, Frontline Force was bigger than TFC and DoD and was slowly gaining on CS. Then version 1.2 came out, with its wacky suppressive fire, shotgun-of-doom, and spinning corpses, and everyone left. And didn't come back. NS is a great mod, but all it really takes is one really horrible patch to send most of the community off to search for new games. Testing is essential, and when people who've tested say it isn't ready, then it isn't ready. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Oh man I remember that happening. I used to play FLF religiously, it was great, after that release, a few miserable games with shotty \/\/|-|0(2ES I gave up. It was pretty sad looking at the servor list, in comparision to its old state. Man that would be the last thing I would want to happen to NS. Ahhh Nostalgia....
As for releasing than patching, the only thing that really bugged me about that was having to go back and download and install the new version. If NS 3.0 is fully Steam Supported, then I really wouldn't have to worry I guess. So that approach wouldn't be a big problem.
<!--QuoteBegin--kirchy+Dec 29 2003, 12:42 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (kirchy @ Dec 29 2003, 12:42 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I just wanna know how many bugs there are and how long he THINKS it will take to come out. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> End of january, at least.
Ok, for all you people asking for public betas, go over the public beta forums and carefully read all posts. Unless it was moderated, last time I saw tons and tons of replies were from flaming newbies which can't understand the concept of beta testing.
The developers won't and neither shouldn't take **** from anyone that doesn't know squat about making games, mostly because they are not even getting paid.
So, public betas won't happen. I don't want to be rude here, but you are just wasting your time asking for them. Releasing public betas means releasing game balance in the hands of unskilled players. And then waves of flaming newbies will come to the forums complaining that they "pWnz" in cs but they die to any cloacked skulk they meet in the betas and how much it "sUcKz" because they can't be gods.
Comments
Even though combat still has issues with the uncounterable tactics, it's still a friggin fun game to play. I admit that I have no say whatsoever in what happens with the builds. But I think that some of the PT's/VET's/CM's don't understand just how badly the desire is to play the new builds when you can't. It tends to alter your mindset when you've already played it.
How many times have you waited for WEEKS for a new game to come out, then bought it, played it for a weekend, then never touched it again? The same kind of thing happens when you're on the inside of the betas looking out.
Meh, I'm just talking here. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh, I understand, I didn't have beta access untill oh...late november. And since then I've learned a lot. Combat is very fun for the first week or so but after you start really getting into the grit of it you understand whats broken. As of right now combat is very linear and to release it now would be a failure, as even though NS will have automatic updates soon, it would turn people off before fixes could be made..
I mean, you don't buy the engine of a car then wait a month later just for the wheels, that's just stupid. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
Take microsoft for example, if they didnt release windows the moment they finished it, we would never have it (even with all its security issues).
Squash the bugs and just realease the game to the public, by all means what's left is just balance fixes.
Heck even call it a 3.0 beta but open publically for everyone. Rolling out updates on steam until it's truly balanced for pub and clan play.
Since the bugs are all squashed ( the huge major ones anyways... the game should be deem playable even with a few imbalances... I am sure number changing shouldn't require much coding )
does it? prove me wrong someone
Squash the bugs and just realease the game to the public, by all means what's left is just balance fixes.
Heck even call it a 3.0 beta but open publically for everyone. Rolling out updates on steam until it's truly balanced for pub and clan play.
Since the bugs are all squashed ( the huge major ones anyways... the game should be deem playable even with a few imbalances... I am sure number changing shouldn't require much coding )
does it? prove me wrong someone <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Publa betas failed miserably. Someone can provide you a link to an example, I don't have it.
Squash the bugs and just realease the game to the public, by all means what's left is just balance fixes.
Heck even call it a 3.0 beta but open publically for everyone. Rolling out updates on steam until it's truly balanced for pub and clan play.
Since the bugs are all squashed ( the huge major ones anyways... the game should be deem playable even with a few imbalances... I am sure number changing shouldn't require much coding )
does it? prove me wrong someone <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Publa betas failed miserably. Someone can provide you a link to an example, I don't have it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
not all pubic beta fall miserably
Steam was a pubic beta for a while.
Unlike most, I prefer Steam over standard half-life. The main reason being, it fixed more bugs in half-life for me than it created for itself. (Biggest draw card is the ability to alt-tab) Because of this, whenever I have a choice to use a game run on a steam server or one run on standard half life, the choice will go to Steam every time. Same with my friends. I would like to uninstall standard half life as soon as possible, and be rid of it's crappy knee-deep bugs forever, but I can't do that until I can be sure that Natural Selection will run on Steam as well as DoD, or Half-Life itself. Sven Coop is the second last nail in the coffin, but also a catalyst for it to stay around. Sven Coop 3.0 now prevents Natural Selection 2 from starting in Steam!
I guess it would be possible for me to wait, but why not lock out Combat Mode, and release Natural Selection 2.5 with all the bugfixes done so far, including of course, Steam support.
Unlike most, I prefer Steam over standard half-life. The main reason being, it fixed more bugs in half-life for me than it created for itself. (Biggest draw card is the ability to alt-tab) Because of this, whenever I have a choice to use a game run on a steam server or one run on standard half life, the choice will go to Steam every time. Same with my friends. I would like to uninstall standard half life as soon as possible, and be rid of it's crappy knee-deep bugs forever, but I can't do that until I can be sure that Natural Selection will run on Steam as well as DoD, or Half-Life itself. Sven Coop is the second last nail in the coffin, but also a catalyst for it to stay around. Sven Coop 3.0 now prevents Natural Selection 2 from starting in Steam!
I guess it would be possible for me to wait, but why not lock out Combat Mode, and release Natural Selection 2.5 with all the bugfixes done so far, including of course, Steam support. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Its dishearting right now. Classic 3.0 ns is totally playable and scrimmable again but nobody wants to ever play it. Tonights quote of the moment is "Anyone wanna do some reg ns?" "Get out" <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
That's what many of us were afraid of a while back too <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
I have patience for 3.0, then again, I patiently waited for DoD 1.0 and was bitterly let down...
Anyway, my thought is that if someone is dying to play 3.0 in its current state, couldn't they simply become a Constellation member? Wouldn't that allow them to try out 3.0?
Just wondering.
O btw, I loved you in Top Gun! <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
Actually, CWAG, this is the official reason 3.0 isn't out, not the unofficial one <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
...
And actually, the fact that the game is free means that releasing buggy or slightly unbalanced patches more frequently is acceptable. It's also a good way to keep players interested. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
NS:C isn't meant to replace CNS, it is meant to complement it. It gives new, deathmatch-oriented players (the waning CS and TFC community) a chance to get into the NS universe and learn the combat and upgrade system without polluting CNS games with their n00bness.
CNS is obviously the superior game, but then it can be slow and frustrating at times, depending on one's team. NS:C is just there to let you blow off a little steam between rounds, and to help low-population servers get a boost in traffic.
So, like it or not, I feel it is an ambitious and overall positive thing for the mod.
You're dead wrong, though, about it being acceptable to release patches without much testing. A single bad patch can kill a mod community instantly. As of version 1.1, Frontline Force was bigger than TFC and DoD and was slowly gaining on CS. Then version 1.2 came out, with its wacky suppressive fire, shotgun-of-doom, and spinning corpses, and everyone left. And didn't come back. NS is a great mod, but all it really takes is one really horrible patch to send most of the community off to search for new games. Testing is essential, and when people who've tested say it isn't ready, then it isn't ready.
And 3.0 really isn't ready. Very little has been done to address the balance issues present in 2.x, and the JP/Onos balance in NS:C really needs to be addressed before it is ready for prime time. But then 3.0d has mostly been bug-fixing the new features, without an eye to balance. Expect a couple more revisions, but the progress so far has been really exceptional.
And again, if you're that hyped about the new release, drop a measly $20 and get your game on.
Some very minor things like not updated hints, but also quite severe ones, e.g. " mines cannot injure aliens if marine who planted them switches teams" or " weird recycling can cause inability to buy arms lab upgrades".
But that's not everything. There are a lot of complaints about Combat getting very boring after a while and of course the usual "Marines/Aliens are overpowered" complaints.
Flayra and Max are fixing bugs like machines and new ones appear each day.
Just give them more time. My personal guess is a late Februar, early April release.
-Paladin
-Oh and by the way b4 I read this post I felt the same way as some of the these other people who want the game to come out right away, but now I understand...
The desertcombat mod from bf1942, released alphas and every single one of them was popular. The developement team is a little smaller than the NS dev team and the programming is far more complex because it uses the BF1942 engine.
The desertcombat mod from bf1942, released alphas and every single one of them was popular. The developement team is a little smaller than the NS dev team and the programming is far more complex because it uses the BF1942 engine. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
And that ITSELF is a mod of what engine? Right. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
The HL engine is more complicated then we give it credit. ESPECIALLY with commander mode, res node allocation and everything that stretches the engine.
Give Flayra a break. He probably wants to get drunk off his **** during christmas/newyears. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Give Flayra a break. He probably wants to get drunk off his **** during christmas/newyears. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Amen to that.
Okay, if FLF made dramatic changes that compromised gameplay and abandoned the original values, which killed the community, I don't think that's merely a "bad patch". I don't think a public beta of 3.0 right now would cause the community to disintegrate.
If you create a drift in the community, though, with something like Combat, which .. dramatically changes gameplay and essentially throws out the core concept of NS, you do run the risk of killing atleast part of the community.
Obviously the unlikely, and worst case, scenario is that you refresh the server list in Steam and see nothing but co_* servers, and maybe two ns_* servers, one of which is empty and the other is a listenserver that's password protected...
Unlikely? Yeah.. but possible? Well it's fair to say anything is possible. Remember DoD's para maps? Somewhat ill-conceived, many said it turned DoD into CS, and didn't like it. They were quickly dropped.
What's my point? Mostly that I don't think the occasional obnoxious bug runs the risk of "killing" the community as much as an entire new game mode. And what you said about balance also taps into my original point.. that instead of having to sit and worry about Combat balance, the NS team could focus squarely on their original vision -- the RTS/FPS hybrid mode.
And balance that, instead.
For those who waited for 2.0, they may have felt letdown by the fact that, to an extent, the game was "broken". The subsequent patches helped, but more work needs to be done (as always). So why do we need Combat now? Nothing's ever perfect, but still...
I never meant that the NS team should release obviously incomplete patches, however non-game crippling bugs are NOT a major concern. I don't believe I'm "dead wrong" when I say bug-containing patches can be released, and can be accepted more easily by the community when, 1) the game is free, and 2) there's a service like Steam that will ensure they get the new fixes as soon as they're available.
That is the whole point of Steam, to put an end to the "gold rush" of giant patch releases, and allow developers to continously develop, tweak, and fix games somewhat "on the fly".
Oh man I remember that happening. I used to play FLF religiously, it was great, after that release, a few miserable games with shotty
\/\/|-|0(2ES I gave up. It was pretty sad looking at the servor list, in comparision to its old state. Man that would be the last thing I would want to happen to NS. Ahhh Nostalgia....
As for releasing than patching, the only thing that really bugged me about that was having to go back and download and install the new version. If NS 3.0 is fully Steam Supported, then I really wouldn't have to worry I guess. So that approach wouldn't be a big problem.
End of january, at least.
The developers won't and neither shouldn't take **** from anyone that doesn't know squat about making games, mostly because they are not even getting paid.
So, public betas won't happen. I don't want to be rude here, but you are just wasting your time asking for them. Releasing public betas means releasing game balance in the hands of unskilled players. And then waves of flaming newbies will come to the forums complaining that they "pWnz" in cs but they die to any cloacked skulk they meet in the betas and how much it "sUcKz" because they can't be gods.
I hope this cleared any doubts.