Countering Jpers
Ballisto
Join Date: 2003-05-19 Member: 16503Members
Join Date: 2003-05-19 Member: 16503Members
<div class="IPBDescription">none really</div> heavy trains are countered by stomping onos.
but jpers, they fly over your heads and just about every attack is melee. sure onos has unlimited vertical range, but after 3 jpers, he's gonna be hurting, and when running time comes, they're gonna chase him down and kill him.
fade: good for avoiding combat. unless they got adren, jpers will run em down. shotguns already own fades, jp+sg makes em worthless.
lerk - supposed to be the counter to jp. except that hmg>spikes, and jpers are more manuverable than lerk, which makes no sense considering that wings, part of your body, are less manuverable that a jp (its changing in 3.0 thank god). you'll try to escape through a vent but you'll fly over it, take forever to sink and then get shotgunned >_<
skulk - shotguns and hmgs shred em, forget on jps
so currently, how do you counter jps? i just played a game where we controlled the whole map, had three hives, but we just couldnt hit the jpers. they'd dodge our leaps and when we ambushed them cloaked, they'd be in the air before we could get enough bites in. and then the comm would medpack them back to life. they rushed hives, set up seiges, and soon they'd won the game.
so... what do you guys do to counter jp?
but jpers, they fly over your heads and just about every attack is melee. sure onos has unlimited vertical range, but after 3 jpers, he's gonna be hurting, and when running time comes, they're gonna chase him down and kill him.
fade: good for avoiding combat. unless they got adren, jpers will run em down. shotguns already own fades, jp+sg makes em worthless.
lerk - supposed to be the counter to jp. except that hmg>spikes, and jpers are more manuverable than lerk, which makes no sense considering that wings, part of your body, are less manuverable that a jp (its changing in 3.0 thank god). you'll try to escape through a vent but you'll fly over it, take forever to sink and then get shotgunned >_<
skulk - shotguns and hmgs shred em, forget on jps
so currently, how do you counter jps? i just played a game where we controlled the whole map, had three hives, but we just couldnt hit the jpers. they'd dodge our leaps and when we ambushed them cloaked, they'd be in the air before we could get enough bites in. and then the comm would medpack them back to life. they rushed hives, set up seiges, and soon they'd won the game.
so... what do you guys do to counter jp?
Comments
Gorge with Health Spray (used to heal hive and shoot down jetpackers)
Lerks
Leaping skulks
Celerity onos
Webs at hive 3 (rare)
Gorge with Health Spray (used to heal hive and shoot down jetpackers)
Lerks
Leaping skulks
Celerity onos
Webs at hive 3 (rare) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
ocs dont stop gl wielding jpers and seiges
healspray... how do you hit a guy high in the air w that? healing the hive just buys you time
lerks - see what i said
leaping skulks - get gunned down, hard to hit jpers anyway
celerity onos - hmmm can that outrun a jper?
webs - probably the best one
id appreciate a detailed response
Who's talking about sieges? GL jetpackers go down very easily to one or two decent skulks.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->healspray... how do you hit a guy high in the air w that? healing the hive just buys you time<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you spray in the general direction of a jetpacker it damages him, it's range is much farther than the animation that is shown.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->lerks - see what i said<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
A lerk won't beat a jetpacker 1v1 in a level playing field but he can hold 1-2 jetpackers out of a hive room.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->leaping skulks - get gunned down, hard to hit jpers anyway<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Leap in - bite once or twice and die. Marine gets medpack, but loses armor, has to reload, loses ammo, is delayed.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->celerity onos - hmmm can that outrun a jper?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, when used correctly an onos will run in and kill as much as he can, run back to a closed quarters hallway and regen, if a jetpacker chases the jetpacker should die in less than a second.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->webs - probably the best one<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah.
devour>jp, if u know how to devour lure the marine into a low ceiling area then hes lunch, well thats what i do and i usually **** 8/10 jpers
make them lose fuel
then they'll start making big fueless jumps, and be easy prey even for (carapace) skulks and lerks
i dunno about devour, maybe those onos werent that good, but one of them had singlehandedly taken down a 4 man heavy train...
but devour IS how i finally died, something like 12 onos later. they all whooped in joy and said FINALLY when i ended up in one's stomach.
---
a lot of these counters only work in hive rooms, the jpers will still control the rest of the map. and then they'll set up seige and gg.
still no real counter to jpers. sure these work, but itll take many many many times to get a good jper (i went an hour long game on 2 jps - only died twice w jp, this was the los clan server). and then he'll just get reequipped.
acid rocket is good and fades can outrun jpers, but thats not until 3rd hive.
spikes and spores - spores dont really have that much effect (jpers go through them so quickly), and hmg>spikes, and shotguns own lerks up close.
actually a really good lerk could probably take on some jps - umbra, spores, spike em, and be able to control the lerks screwy flying.
im hoping the new lerk will be a much better counter to jps.
I've managed to kill plenty of JPers in large JP friendly areas like refinery one on one. The point is that they're easy to spot (blue trail) and a andren lerk (or even better, silence lerk) is hard to spot and track.
Yes, Lerks do help; But in 3.0 Lerks will be losing their spikes and will be left with only spores. JPs have lots of maneuverability and can just get out of the way. Of course, there is also medspam with will carry any marine through the spores.
JPs, after a while of flying around, will land for short periods of time on the ground before leaping off again. Although it's possible for a skulk or fade to whack him then, more than likely the JP will land in a clear spot or take off immediately after the first bite.
Leaping skulks is only viable with two hives; Although it's <i>possible</i> to climb walls or drop of the ceiling, it's bloody hard and I would hardly consider that a viable counter. Even with leap it's just too hard. You could parasite them, but with medspam, again, it's simply an annoyance.
Fades have acid rocket, but only at three hives - but it's not a hitscan weapon, and a good JetPacker can avoid the rockets for at least a while.
Webs are easily countered if the JP has a welder and flies around with it out.
OTs are one partial solution, but they're inaccurate against fast moving targets, especially JPs, and JPs have a tendancy to fly to those out of the way places that an OT will not be.
Gorges with heal spray fending off JPs is a joke; The heal spray's damage is negligable, add in a little medspam and the marines shooting back and it's a rather hopeless situation. Onos are just fat targest for, well, whatever the JPs happen to be holding.
I know that marines are supposed to have hte distance weapons and the aliens are supposed to have the close-combat skills, but when it comes to JPs... It just doesn't seem right. Whatever the aliens do, the marines can counter with a welder and a bit of medspam. With Lerk losing spikes it's only going to get worse.
lerks will be MUCH MUCH MUCH more manuverable. they'll be able to outmanuver jpers (the way it SHOULD be).
lerks ARE hard to keep track of, esp w silence and in large rooms, but motion tracking solves that... (unfortunately) >_<
hmm... jp in a hive, spore around/umbra the hive... fade acid rocket above the hive(mostly jetpacker would hide tehre to blast hive) or simply build oc in the hive and web it
Once you hit 3rd hive you can hoover them with devour (satisfaction), lerk em, OC em, or spam the acid rocket.
Very good fade blinkers will be able to nail a JPer also. Thankfully JPs are relatively rare compared to heavies, so if you're playing a server where jps keep appearing then chances are you've at least one alien on your side who can counter as fade/lerk.
Alot of DCs near the hive to keep it healthy buys you enought time.
Then just keep pushing with any evolution you have.
spores work, and you cant medspam someone that flies around.
soo some cooperation from gorges and lerks with some skulks to finish em off is probably the best.
onos will work if you can lure them to some thick corridor.
fades can stand a chance too, but the packer has some advantage
1: Lerk (1-2) - Spore paths they walk through so comm MUST keep medding them
2: Leap - Leaping skulks are one of the best counters as they can just keep assualting
3: Fades - (1-2) Fades constantly blink around and go for mid-swipes while quickly switching in between blink jumps. Ushally a hard tactic to master but duable and a decent soft counter
4: Oc's - If there is just 1 jp dont worry to much about him, just keep him on tabs with a skulk and make sure he doesnt phase. Dont worry about him rushing if your gorge put up defense on the hive to handle it. Taking our marine nodes is a much better use of time so they cant even get more jp's.
5: 3rd Hive abilitys - Somewhat obvious, when 3rd hive abilities come up xeno/acid/web give all that is needed to take them out.
I'll try the oc/web combo... and putting ocs in hard to reach places.
Aliens should never underestimate a JPer. One JP can win a game by building a PG and then whole team sieging a hive or 2. Not to mention a JPer sitting on a hive with a Shotgun. Aliens should keep track of JP-movements using parasite or SoF and attack them if they get into an important area. Now, to actually kill a JP you'll need leaping skulks or a blinking fade. Lerks can keep a JP out of an area but can't actually kill him
Skulks: Leap in the direction of the JP and bite once you're close to him. It takes some practice, but the hit is pretty much guaranteed unless the JP has a shotgun. It works, because the marines can not change direction quickly when in mid air. So if you're leaping right towards the JP or his location considering his movement (if he moves towards left, you'll have to aim slightly to the left) and if you move your "head" towards the marine, the range of the bite will allow you to hit the marine. Remember to use the "switch to last weapon" key to switch weapon from leap to bite!
Fade: It works pretty much the same way except now you use blink instead of leap. It's probably best used with a regen/adrenalin fade but could work with any other upgrades too. Blink as you used leap for a skulk (aiming into the position where the marine would be when you reach him), then quick-switch to swipe, and swipe once. Then when you land, aquire the JP and repeat. At any point you can blink away and heal.
This does require practice and patience, but it works! I haven't played a lot against JPers since most commanders go for HA, but i could kill quite a few (20+ maybe) JP-marines with that, especially with fade. The problem i have with skulk/leap is that i get killed before i even get close to the JP due to the heavy weapons they carry.
I hope that helped. Try it out sometime with a friend: have one guy JP-fly with a knife (for fun <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->) and the other try and leap/bite him. Oh, by the way, welcome to the 3D fights in NS where you not only have to move forward/back and right/left to hit a marine but now also have to consider the up/down dimension <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Everything seems overpowering til you learn the trick to knackering it.
I've realized how powerful jps are compared to ha - if your marines have half a clue, they're deadly. Skulks can at least bite ha a couple times. They can hardly touch jpers. Every time I comm a game now, I hand out jps.
However JPers are also open to every weapon in the alien arsenal. Spores, Para, you name it.
<!--QuoteBegin--afratnikov+Dec 30 2003, 07:36 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (afratnikov @ Dec 30 2003, 07:36 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Skulks: Leap in the direction of the JP and bite once you're close to him. It takes some practice, but the hit is pretty much guaranteed unless the JP has a shotgun. It works, because the marines can not change direction quickly when in mid air. So if you're leaping right towards the JP or his location considering his movement (if he moves toward left, you'll? have to aim slightly to the left) and if you move your "head" towards the marine, the range of the bite will allow you to hit the marine. Remember to use the "switch to last weapon" key to switch weapon from leap to bite!
Fade: It works pretty much the same way except now you use blink instead of leap. It's probably best used with a regen/adrenalin fade but could work with any other upgrades too. Blink as you used leap for a skulk (aiming into the position where the marine would be when you reach him), then quick-switch to swipe, and swipe once. Then when you land, aquire the JP and repeat.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't believe teamwork alone can counter a JP. A saw 5 skulks near a hive and the JP just continued sitting and knifing the hive... Nah, teamwork against HA, skill against JP!
Here's teamwork against JP: Let's stack 3 onoses one on the other! We will get the onos on the hive and EAT that JP!
Or: skulk, you ditract the JP while the lerk will gas and spike the JP to death!