<!--QuoteBegin--scooter-blue+Jan 1 2004, 12:48 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (scooter-blue @ Jan 1 2004, 12:48 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> gg NS. Say hello to CS Retail when you get to selloutville. Just now I find out the reason I've been waiting so god damn long for 3.0 to come out is that flayra is saving it for a retail release. Way to treat your fanbase.
Next time at least say SOMETHING when you miss your expected holiday season release date. LIE, MAKE SOMETHING UP: ANYTHING. Don't just sit silent as you backstab your patiently waiting fans.
If I had known NS 3.0 is being delayed as they find investors for a retail release I would have quit NS a long F-ing time ago.
Bye NS. Hello Broodwar. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> This idiot keeps making up his own stories and posting threads like these... please stop. And if your leaving, GOOD RIDDANCE!
and if he had a engine made just for the game, would you leave then? Why leave? Does it really matter that its on the HL engine, what if it was on Quake's one?Don't be committed then if a sudden chances happen dump it, thats stupid.
because like my self many many many people will buy half life 2, and with it comes mods (hopefully ns2) which draws a larger player base. The reason Flayra chose the HL engine was because of its large player base. Most people(inclusing my self) are not going to spend cash on a seprate NS engine.
No, its like saying why buy this NS game when i could get HL2, a much more hyped (and probally better) game than if NS. You see if NS went away from the half life engine the player nuber would drop, people have heard about Half Life 2, not as many people have heard about NS, the #4 mod for half life. So what would most pople buy, hyped half life, or some no name Natural Selection game?
Well since Natural-Selection is not a noname game, and has grown out of that phase i think people would buy both. HL2 may be your first choice , but if you had that extra 15 or 20 you'd go back and buy NS.
When your average PC game player sees Natural Selection next to half life2 they will get HL2. When they see NS they will probally think "Oh great another no name FPS" people know about half life not so many as NS, face it, even if every person that playes ns now (id wager about 6000 play) that isnt enough people to fun a solo project like ns, unless they had a monthy fee, which then you would get about maby 100 people playing.
<!--QuoteBegin--Boy who lost his wings+Jan 1 2004, 05:50 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Boy who lost his wings @ Jan 1 2004, 05:50 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> When your average PC game player sees Natural Selection next to half life2 they will get HL2. When they see NS they will probally think "Oh great another no name FPS" people know about half life not so many as NS, face it, even if every person that playes ns now (id wager about 6000 play) that isnt enough people to fun a solo project like ns, unless they had a monthy fee, which then you would get about maby 100 people playing. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> umm, thats not all true. Look at CS, it got released and there was Quake3, Max Pyne, Battlefield 1942, and not to mention dozen of other games. DoD too, did the same thing. Yes I do understand CS is more popular , but they got 10x the hackers, but thats not the point.
you see CS is VASTLY more populated(i believe CS has about 30k players,but that is a rough esitamte and i couldnt find any rankings) and preached about than NS. so of couse it will sell, but not very well
Boy who lost his wings: You are wrong. If i'd see HL2 and NS on the store, would i buy game that doesn't run on my machine (the way that it would be playable and fun, and i know the "700 mhz" minimum reguirement for HL2 that is just BS <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> ) or game that would run on my machine and has kick **** multiplayer game? And if you afford to get the machine that kicks **** with HL2 you will probably have enough money to get HL2 and NS <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> . The point is, that if things would work like you descriped, there probably wouldn't be as many FPS (or other genres) games as much there is at the moment. Also i don't see that NS would be there to compete with HL2 <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> .
<!--QuoteBegin--Mystiqq+Jan 1 2004, 06:14 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Mystiqq @ Jan 1 2004, 06:14 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Boy who lost his wings: You are wrong. If i'd see HL2 and NS on the store, would i buy game that doesn't run on my machine (the way that it would be playable and fun, and i know the "700 mhz" minimum reguirement for HL2 that is just BS <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> ) or game that would run on my machine and has kick **** multiplayer game? And if you afford to get the machine that kicks **** with HL2 you will probably have enough money to get HL2 and NS <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> . The point is, that if things would work like you descriped, there probably wouldn't be as many FPS (or other genres) games as much there is at the moment. Also i don't see that NS would be there to compete with HL2 <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> .
Just an though.
Cheers... -M <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> You != masses masses= important masses=more money individual gamers != importanat individual gamers != more money
You can be the most hardcore, dedicated fan, but you alone(and/or small % of the community) will not drive a stand alone NS game to sucess.
considering flayra never sold the code to his "icon" system, after so many people from counter strike begged him to buy it... i hardly think hes in it for the money.
From <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com' target='_blank'>www.unknownworlds.com</a>:
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->First we'd like to get Natural Selection into retail as a stand-alone product. NS is gaining players every day, but it's still a modification without a PR-budget, so a retail launch would gain many more players and reviews. The game has been tested, played casually and played competitively by many thousands of players, so a retail release is relatively low-risk. This release would build the franchise name and build an even larger audience for our next offering.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
hmm, If I had spent the last three years working on a game like natural selection and giving it away for free, I think I would want to make some money out of it. Selling out means that you only do what people want to make money, and anyway if that makes you happy, whats the problem?
Meh, me of all people should be upset by this but I'm not. Flay&Co have earned it. Although I still think their business should be called "Happy Awesome Squad"... <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Epidemic+Jan 1 2004, 01:23 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Epidemic @ Jan 1 2004, 01:23 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->LOL, Scooter did you create a second account?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Uh, I'm trying to figure out what you meant, but I'm having trouble entering the mindset of an F-tard.
If you meant you thought I was banned and then made a new account, I was never banned.
If you meant you thought TyrranzzX was an account I made to support myself, I didn't.
One thing that I love about this forum is the abundance of sheep that flame any poster that criticizes the development team or the community. Maybe I should start a mod so I can get the mass groupie love that flayra gets from his mindless followers. I'll bet he begins and ends every day with a ritual tongue bath from one of you Special Olympics runners up.
NS is a great game, and I thank the team for making it. I don't think the team "owes" me anything or that they aren't "allowed to take a holiday break." But the relationship between developer and community is more complicated than a unilateral charity donation: It's a reciprocal exchange of benefit. Do you think Flayra is making this mod out of some Santa Claus complex that compels him to spread joy to the world; to all the boys and girls? As evidenced by the number of people who have joined the constellation--which might more aptly be called the black hole, from which not even brief spending records can escape--and his recent trademark applications and newfound membership of the company-ending-with-"entertainment"-owner club, Flayra's interest in Natural Selection is more than an altruistic one. NS is Flayra's resumé; it's an investment the value of which is measured in terms of popularity.
This isn't his project for the school science fair, folks: He wants to do this in the real world, and there's going to be more pressure to hurry production on a corporate development team than any of my little forum posts could generate. Contrary to what many of you have said, he <i>is</i> getting paid to produce NS, whether it's in the form of hard cash from constellation or future earning potential from employers who would appreciate a coder who could maintain a project with a large fanbase.
Letting the NS team know that we don't appreciate missed release dates and a lack of regular updates is valuable feedback. These guys are still learning how to run things. The worst thing we can do is sit silent as the community gradually falls apart, which is what's happening now. If you don't like the way things are going, say so, or you're hurting the game's--and the development team's--future.
The point is that 3.0 has been delayed past its holiday season release date not in order to stamp out bugs (the majority of which have probably already been fixed in the unreleased build), but rather to buy time to find a buyer that can put NS retail on the shelves, and this in my view is unacceptable. To make matters worse, this was all done without any official explanation from the NS team. Flayra needs to change the way he's doing things.
When cs changed from a free mod to a retail version did they force people to buy the CS retail? No, why should it be any different for NS it will have some extras but i dont feel they would release 3.0 as strictly retail especially when we still have free alternatives for those who cant afford it eg: 1.04 and 2.0.
Making NS retail will mean people won't be forced to purchase HL when all they wanna play is NS.
CS, DOD, and now NS, has shown that some people are just too retarded to save (wrt bitching about going retail which costs them nothing unless they purchase the retail version!)
<!--QuoteBegin--scooter-blue+Jan 1 2004, 07:17 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (scooter-blue @ Jan 1 2004, 07:17 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Epidemic+Jan 1 2004, 01:23 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Epidemic @ Jan 1 2004, 01:23 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->LOL, Scooter did you create a second account?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Uh, I'm trying to figure out what you meant, but I'm having trouble entering the mindset of an F-tard.
If you meant you thought I was banned and then made a new account, I was never banned.
If you meant you thought TyrranzzX was an account I made to support myself, I didn't.
<b>One thing that I love about this forum is the abundance of sheep that flame any poster that criticizes the development team or the community. Maybe I should start a mod so I can get the mass groupie love that flayra gets from his mindless followers. I'll bet he begins and ends every day with a ritual tongue bath from one of you Special Olympics runners up.</b>
<i>NS is a great game, and I thank the team for making it. I don't think the team "owes" me anything or that they aren't "allowed to take a holiday break." But the relationship between developer and community is more complicated than a unilateral charity donation: It's a reciprocal exchange of benefit. Do you think Flayra is making this mod out of some Santa Claus complex that compels him to spread joy to the world; to all the boys and girls? As evidenced by the number of people who have joined the constellation--which might more aptly be called the black hole, from which not even brief spending records can escape--and his recent trademark applications and newfound membership of the company-ending-with-"entertainment"-owner club, Flayra's interest in Natural Selection is more than an altruistic one. NS is Flayra's resumé; it's an investment the value of which is measured in terms of popularity. </i>
This isn't his project for the school science fair, folks: He wants to do this in the real world, and there's going to be more pressure to hurry production on a corporate development team than any of my little forum posts could generate. Contrary to what many of you have said, he <i>is</i> getting paid to produce NS, whether it's in the form of hard cash from constellation or future earning potential from employers who would appreciate a coder who could maintain a project with a large fanbase.
Letting the NS team know that we don't appreciate missed release dates and a lack of regular updates is valuable feedback. These guys are still learning how to run things. The worst thing we can do is sit silent as the community gradually falls apart, which is what's happening now. If you don't like the way things are going, say so, or you're hurting the game's--and the development team's--future.
The point is that 3.0 has been delayed past its holiday season release date not in order to stamp out bugs (the majority of which have probably already been fixed in the unreleased build), but rather to buy time to find a buyer that can put NS retail on the shelves, and this in my view is unacceptable. To make matters worse, this was all done without any official explanation from the NS team. Flayra needs to change the way he's doing things. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> The line in bold I thought was stupid an pointless. so I ask you scooter. What do you have against flaming? you instulted a mod, in their forums, what do you expect? A formal welcome and a pat on the back? So since you call us "Sheep" for flaming you, or in a more forum-ready term. Counter-trolling. your first post in this thread leads me show that your trolling, as your just coming in, saying that "oh no, I dont want to wait, so im going to make a thread on how im leaving." Everything has a purpose Scooter. What was the purpose of this? It certainly isn't informative, as it offers no information. So what is the purpose of this thread? Ah, to generate responses to feed you so you get more attention. Anyways, back on topic. Since your against flaming, then you might have a thread of intelligence. Oh wait, lets read more of that paragraph. Ah, it seems it only took you a couple of words to become a hypocrite, heres the "hypocritic moron badge" I see you wear it proudly.
Next paragraph, In italics.
I like how you said said the relationship between dev and community is more complicated then a unilateral charity donation. So basically your saying this is more complicated then a basic donation, you just give money.
Ah I see, you call it this because you actually get something for donating. A constellation icon and a beta pass. just like sven-coops system. donate and get the electric crowbar and golden uzi's which showed you were a donator (and were SECHSI)
In response to to where you say "Do you think Flayra is making this mod out of some Santa Claus complex that compels him to spread joy to the world; to all the boys and girls?" No. He is making a modification for half-life, people can download it and play it online with other people, and enjoy it.
In response to this part of the italic paragraph
"As evidenced by the number of people who have joined the constellation--which might more aptly be called the black hole, from which not even brief spending records can escape--and his recent trademark applications and newfound membership of the company-ending-with-"entertainment"-owner club, Flayra's interest in Natural Selection is more than an altruistic one. NS is Flayra's resumé; it's an investment the value of which is measured in terms of popularity"
Earlier, you said the constellation donation thing was a reciprocal. you gave, and you got, but now it's a black hole? I dont feel anything sucking me into it, and black holes dont give out perks. Get your stories straight.
What troubles you about flayra retailing his game? this webserver costs 90 dollars a month. His coders/modellers etc possibly cost money, I dont know. And those sounds he has for marines, they cost money.
And what are you getting about with unknown world entertainments? That is flayra's own company, he created the name, he trademarked it. which means he plans for more ns games/mods.
Im too tired to select paragraphs and talk about them, so let me critisize the rest of the poorly constructed argument.
oh yea, and of course flayra "wants to do this in the real world"
If you spent money on someone to bring enjoyment to a heckload of people, dont you want to make some money? and flayra isnt making us pay for this? no, flayra is generous, too generous if you ask me. The only pay Mr.Flayra gets is Donations. But he has this huge, popular mod. who in their right mind wouldnt try to make some money with it? who wouldnt want to make a sequel, and a prequel? I find this thrilling that flayra is taking ns in the right direction! you make it sound like its bad that he is getting payed? you seem pretty bitter that someone is making money, are you against seeing people take a dream, or a small idea and turn it into a big idea? If you are, then leave these forums, I dont like seeing whiney brats crawl in.
In conclusion to your 2 final pragraphs.
Games are delayed all the time, just because a VAGUE DATE was given, dosnt mean you start calling the dev teams morons for trying their best. For INSTANCE HERE, lets look at half-life 2. They had a sure release date at 30th, but at the 26th or earlier, they lied to us.
I know people who had friends at eb games, and their pc's showed it was held back to febuary, so they delayed hl2 for a while , and would tell us at the last minute, without any kind of warning. and now with the source hacked, its going to take till april.
Its not like we delayed it twice. Hell, we gave you a vague estimated release date, and as I said before, hl2 had a exact date, which they had made a big lie, and were planning on febuary.
Take it to the hl2 forums, Im sure there community will slowly fall apart too from a delay.
I got to the point where it was clear you totally misunderstood my post and stopped reading. I said the relationship between developer is reciprocal as opposed to a one-sided gift from developer to player in the form of a game, not a gift from player to developer in the form of constellation money. Constellation <b>IS</b> a one-sided gift. Your post misses entirely the point of what I said.
<!--QuoteBegin--scooter-blue+Jan 1 2004, 09:04 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (scooter-blue @ Jan 1 2004, 09:04 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I got to the point where it was clear you totally misunderstood my post and stopped reading. I said the relationship between developer is reciprocal as opposed to a one-sided gift from developer to player in the form of a game, not a gift from player to developer in the form of constellation money. Constellation <b>IS</b> a one-sided gift. Your post misses entirely the point of what I said. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> How is it not one-sided in terms of "developers to community" ?
How on Earth can you ask that after replying to my earlier post. What did you do, take a time-machine to before you read it?
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->But the relationship between developer and community is more complicated than a unilateral charity donation: It's a reciprocal exchange of benefit. Do you think Flayra is making this mod out of some Santa Claus complex that compels him to spread joy to the world; to all the boys and girls? As evidenced by the number of people who have joined the constellation--which might more aptly be called the black hole, from which not even brief spending records can escape--and his recent trademark applications and newfound membership of the company-ending-with-"entertainment"-owner club, Flayra's interest in Natural Selection is more than an altruistic one. NS is Flayra's resumé; it's an investment the value of which is measured in terms of popularity.
This isn't his project for the school science fair, folks: He wants to do this in the real world, and there's going to be more pressure to hurry production on a corporate development team than any of my little forum posts could generate. Contrary to what many of you have said, he is getting paid to produce NS, whether it's in the form of hard cash from constellation or future earning potential from employers who would appreciate a coder who could maintain a project with a large fanbase.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--scooter-blue+Jan 1 2004, 09:12 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (scooter-blue @ Jan 1 2004, 09:12 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> How on Earth can you ask that after replying to my earlier post. What did you do, take a time-machine to before you read it?
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->But the relationship between developer and community is more complicated than a unilateral charity donation: It's a reciprocal exchange of benefit. Do you think Flayra is making this mod out of some Santa Claus complex that compels him to spread joy to the world; to all the boys and girls? As evidenced by the number of people who have joined the constellation--which might more aptly be called the black hole, from which not even brief spending records can escape--and his recent trademark applications and newfound membership of the company-ending-with-"entertainment"-owner club, Flayra's interest in Natural Selection is more than an altruistic one. NS is Flayra's resumé; it's an investment the value of which is measured in terms of popularity.
This isn't his project for the school science fair, folks: He wants to do this in the real world, and there's going to be more pressure to hurry production on a corporate development team than any of my little forum posts could generate. Contrary to what many of you have said, he is getting paid to produce NS, whether it's in the form of hard cash from constellation or future earning potential from employers who would appreciate a coder who could maintain a project with a large fanbase.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Answer the question that I asked, dont just post something already posted. I dont see how that isnt one sided.
The developers have developed a mod for us, for free. and what do we give back?
Realistically, until it's clear what is going to happen with NS (NS with updates & NS2, just NS2 etc.), it is impossible to make any comment ourselves. It would be helpful if Flayra gave us more details but I understand that this will be business sensitive information that he probably doesn't want to leak out.
As someone who was looking to join Constellation after Yule, I'm more interested in the following statements:
1) NS is and will always be free (Constellation page) 2) After releasing NS into retail, we'd like to keep maintaining it (Unknown Worlds site)
Will this be the end of Constellation? Will this be "pay to beta test" only? If keeping NS as a mod, and building NS2, will NS be updated?
Again, though, some of this is business sensitive and we'll probably not find out until Flayra is ready.
Personally, good luck to Flayra and the teams. I disagree that it's selling out but I also disagree that someone would pick NS over HL2 if they don't know NS. *shrug* Marketing is the way forward to increase public knowledge but, let's face it, that's a business strategy.
Anyway, I'm still joining Constellation - this is one of the few games I'm happy to spend money on! <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Comments
Next time at least say SOMETHING when you miss your expected holiday season release date. LIE, MAKE SOMETHING UP: ANYTHING. Don't just sit silent as you backstab your patiently waiting fans.
If I had known NS 3.0 is being delayed as they find investors for a retail release I would have quit NS a long F-ing time ago.
Bye NS. Hello Broodwar. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
This idiot keeps making up his own stories and posting threads like these... please stop. And if your leaving, GOOD RIDDANCE!
umm, thats not all true. Look at CS, it got released and there was Quake3, Max Pyne, Battlefield 1942, and not to mention dozen of other games. DoD too, did the same thing. Yes I do understand CS is more popular , but they got 10x the hackers, but thats not the point.
Just an though.
Cheers...
-M
Just an though.
Cheers...
-M <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
You != masses
masses= important
masses=more money
individual gamers != importanat
individual gamers != more money
You can be the most hardcore, dedicated fan, but you alone(and/or small % of the community) will not drive a stand alone NS game to sucess.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->First we'd like to get Natural Selection into retail as a stand-alone product. NS is gaining players every day, but it's still a modification without a PR-budget, so a retail launch would gain many more players and reviews. The game has been tested, played casually and played competitively by many thousands of players, so a retail release is relatively low-risk. This release would build the franchise name and build an even larger audience for our next offering.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
p.s. very sorry for spelling very late.
Uh, I'm trying to figure out what you meant, but I'm having trouble entering the mindset of an F-tard.
If you meant you thought I was banned and then made a new account, I was never banned.
If you meant you thought TyrranzzX was an account I made to support myself, I didn't.
One thing that I love about this forum is the abundance of sheep that flame any poster that criticizes the development team or the community. Maybe I should start a mod so I can get the mass groupie love that flayra gets from his mindless followers. I'll bet he begins and ends every day with a ritual tongue bath from one of you Special Olympics runners up.
NS is a great game, and I thank the team for making it. I don't think the team "owes" me anything or that they aren't "allowed to take a holiday break." But the relationship between developer and community is more complicated than a unilateral charity donation: It's a reciprocal exchange of benefit. Do you think Flayra is making this mod out of some Santa Claus complex that compels him to spread joy to the world; to all the boys and girls? As evidenced by the number of people who have joined the constellation--which might more aptly be called the black hole, from which not even brief spending records can escape--and his recent trademark applications and newfound membership of the company-ending-with-"entertainment"-owner club, Flayra's interest in Natural Selection is more than an altruistic one. NS is Flayra's resumé; it's an investment the value of which is measured in terms of popularity.
This isn't his project for the school science fair, folks: He wants to do this in the real world, and there's going to be more pressure to hurry production on a corporate development team than any of my little forum posts could generate. Contrary to what many of you have said, he <i>is</i> getting paid to produce NS, whether it's in the form of hard cash from constellation or future earning potential from employers who would appreciate a coder who could maintain a project with a large fanbase.
Letting the NS team know that we don't appreciate missed release dates and a lack of regular updates is valuable feedback. These guys are still learning how to run things. The worst thing we can do is sit silent as the community gradually falls apart, which is what's happening now. If you don't like the way things are going, say so, or you're hurting the game's--and the development team's--future.
The point is that 3.0 has been delayed past its holiday season release date not in order to stamp out bugs (the majority of which have probably already been fixed in the unreleased build), but rather to buy time to find a buyer that can put NS retail on the shelves, and this in my view is unacceptable. To make matters worse, this was all done without any official explanation from the NS team. Flayra needs to change the way he's doing things.
Making NS retail will mean people won't be forced to purchase HL when all they wanna play is NS.
Prove me differently if you dont agree!
- RD
Uh, I'm trying to figure out what you meant, but I'm having trouble entering the mindset of an F-tard.
If you meant you thought I was banned and then made a new account, I was never banned.
If you meant you thought TyrranzzX was an account I made to support myself, I didn't.
<b>One thing that I love about this forum is the abundance of sheep that flame any poster that criticizes the development team or the community. Maybe I should start a mod so I can get the mass groupie love that flayra gets from his mindless followers. I'll bet he begins and ends every day with a ritual tongue bath from one of you Special Olympics runners up.</b>
<i>NS is a great game, and I thank the team for making it. I don't think the team "owes" me anything or that they aren't "allowed to take a holiday break." But the relationship between developer and community is more complicated than a unilateral charity donation: It's a reciprocal exchange of benefit. Do you think Flayra is making this mod out of some Santa Claus complex that compels him to spread joy to the world; to all the boys and girls? As evidenced by the number of people who have joined the constellation--which might more aptly be called the black hole, from which not even brief spending records can escape--and his recent trademark applications and newfound membership of the company-ending-with-"entertainment"-owner club, Flayra's interest in Natural Selection is more than an altruistic one. NS is Flayra's resumé; it's an investment the value of which is measured in terms of popularity. </i>
This isn't his project for the school science fair, folks: He wants to do this in the real world, and there's going to be more pressure to hurry production on a corporate development team than any of my little forum posts could generate. Contrary to what many of you have said, he <i>is</i> getting paid to produce NS, whether it's in the form of hard cash from constellation or future earning potential from employers who would appreciate a coder who could maintain a project with a large fanbase.
Letting the NS team know that we don't appreciate missed release dates and a lack of regular updates is valuable feedback. These guys are still learning how to run things. The worst thing we can do is sit silent as the community gradually falls apart, which is what's happening now. If you don't like the way things are going, say so, or you're hurting the game's--and the development team's--future.
The point is that 3.0 has been delayed past its holiday season release date not in order to stamp out bugs (the majority of which have probably already been fixed in the unreleased build), but rather to buy time to find a buyer that can put NS retail on the shelves, and this in my view is unacceptable. To make matters worse, this was all done without any official explanation from the NS team. Flayra needs to change the way he's doing things. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
The line in bold I thought was stupid an pointless.
so I ask you scooter. What do you have against flaming? you instulted a mod, in their forums, what do you expect? A formal welcome and a pat on the back? So since you call us "Sheep" for flaming you, or in a more forum-ready term. Counter-trolling. your first post in this thread leads me show that your trolling, as your just coming in, saying that "oh no, I dont want to wait, so im going to make a thread on how im leaving."
Everything has a purpose Scooter. What was the purpose of this? It certainly isn't informative, as it offers no information. So what is the purpose of this thread? Ah, to generate responses to feed you so you get more attention. Anyways, back on topic. Since your against flaming, then you might have a thread of intelligence. Oh wait, lets read more of that paragraph. Ah, it seems it only took you a couple of words to become a hypocrite, heres the "hypocritic moron badge" I see you wear it proudly.
Next paragraph, In italics.
I like how you said said the relationship between dev and community is more complicated then a unilateral charity donation.
So basically your saying this is more complicated then a basic donation, you just give money.
Ah I see, you call it this because you actually get something for donating. A constellation icon and a beta pass.
just like sven-coops system. donate and get the electric crowbar and golden uzi's which showed you were a donator (and were SECHSI)
In response to to where you say "Do you think Flayra is making this mod out of some Santa Claus complex that compels him to spread joy to the world; to all the boys and girls?" No. He is making a modification for half-life, people can download it and play it online with other people, and enjoy it.
In response to this part of the italic paragraph
"As evidenced by the number of people who have joined the constellation--which might more aptly be called the black hole, from which not even brief spending records can escape--and his recent trademark applications and newfound membership of the company-ending-with-"entertainment"-owner club, Flayra's interest in Natural Selection is more than an altruistic one. NS is Flayra's resumé; it's an investment the value of which is measured in terms of popularity"
Earlier, you said the constellation donation thing was a reciprocal. you gave, and you got, but now it's a black hole? I dont feel anything sucking me into it, and black holes dont give out perks. Get your stories straight.
What troubles you about flayra retailing his game? this webserver costs 90 dollars a month. His coders/modellers etc possibly cost money, I dont know. And those sounds he has for marines, they cost money.
And what are you getting about with unknown world entertainments? That is flayra's own company, he created the name, he trademarked it.
which means he plans for more ns games/mods.
Im too tired to select paragraphs and talk about them, so let me critisize the rest of the poorly constructed argument.
oh yea, and of course flayra "wants to do this in the real world"
If you spent money on someone to bring enjoyment to a heckload of people, dont you want to make some money? and flayra isnt making us pay for this? no, flayra is generous, too generous if you ask me. The only pay Mr.Flayra gets is Donations. But he has this huge, popular mod. who in their right mind wouldnt try to make some money with it? who wouldnt want to make a sequel, and a prequel? I find this thrilling that flayra is taking ns in the right direction! you make it sound like its bad that he is getting payed? you seem pretty bitter that someone is making money, are you against seeing people take a dream, or a small idea and turn it into a big idea? If you are, then leave these forums, I dont like seeing whiney brats crawl in.
In conclusion to your 2 final pragraphs.
Games are delayed all the time, just because a VAGUE DATE was given, dosnt mean you start calling the dev teams morons for trying their best.
For INSTANCE HERE, lets look at half-life 2. They had a sure release date at 30th, but at the 26th or earlier, they lied to us.
I know people who had friends at eb games, and their pc's showed it was held back to febuary, so they delayed hl2 for a while , and would tell us at the last minute, without any kind of warning. and now with the source hacked, its going to take till april.
Its not like we delayed it twice. Hell, we gave you a vague estimated release date, and as I said before, hl2 had a exact date, which they had made a big lie, and were planning on febuary.
Take it to the hl2 forums, Im sure there community will slowly fall apart too from a delay.
Now Leave, Troll. get back under your bridge.
<!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/nerd.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd.gif'><!--endemo-->
edit: and dont plan on sleeping either!
How is it not one-sided in terms of "developers to community" ?
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->But the relationship between developer and community is more complicated than a unilateral charity donation: It's a reciprocal exchange of benefit. Do you think Flayra is making this mod out of some Santa Claus complex that compels him to spread joy to the world; to all the boys and girls? As evidenced by the number of people who have joined the constellation--which might more aptly be called the black hole, from which not even brief spending records can escape--and his recent trademark applications and newfound membership of the company-ending-with-"entertainment"-owner club, Flayra's interest in Natural Selection is more than an altruistic one. NS is Flayra's resumé; it's an investment the value of which is measured in terms of popularity.
This isn't his project for the school science fair, folks: He wants to do this in the real world, and there's going to be more pressure to hurry production on a corporate development team than any of my little forum posts could generate. Contrary to what many of you have said, he is getting paid to produce NS, whether it's in the form of hard cash from constellation or future earning potential from employers who would appreciate a coder who could maintain a project with a large fanbase.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->But the relationship between developer and community is more complicated than a unilateral charity donation: It's a reciprocal exchange of benefit. Do you think Flayra is making this mod out of some Santa Claus complex that compels him to spread joy to the world; to all the boys and girls? As evidenced by the number of people who have joined the constellation--which might more aptly be called the black hole, from which not even brief spending records can escape--and his recent trademark applications and newfound membership of the company-ending-with-"entertainment"-owner club, Flayra's interest in Natural Selection is more than an altruistic one. NS is Flayra's resumé; it's an investment the value of which is measured in terms of popularity.
This isn't his project for the school science fair, folks: He wants to do this in the real world, and there's going to be more pressure to hurry production on a corporate development team than any of my little forum posts could generate. Contrary to what many of you have said, he is getting paid to produce NS, whether it's in the form of hard cash from constellation or future earning potential from employers who would appreciate a coder who could maintain a project with a large fanbase.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Answer the question that I asked, dont just post something already posted. I dont see how that isnt one sided.
The developers have developed a mod for us, for free. and what do we give back?
explain How this isnt one sided.
As someone who was looking to join Constellation after Yule, I'm more interested in the following statements:
1) NS is and will always be free (Constellation page)
2) After releasing NS into retail, we'd like to keep maintaining it (Unknown Worlds site)
Will this be the end of Constellation? Will this be "pay to beta test" only? If keeping NS as a mod, and building NS2, will NS be updated?
Again, though, some of this is business sensitive and we'll probably not find out until Flayra is ready.
Personally, good luck to Flayra and the teams. I disagree that it's selling out but I also disagree that someone would pick NS over HL2 if they don't know NS. *shrug* Marketing is the way forward to increase public knowledge but, let's face it, that's a business strategy.
Anyway, I'm still joining Constellation - this is one of the few games I'm happy to spend money on! <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->