"double Node" Rooms

EriasErias Join Date: 2003-08-17 Member: 19878Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Gameplay considerations in a map.</div> I'm considering putting one, maybe even two, double-resource-node rooms in my map, but I'm wondering how exactly people will like this, and how this will affect the map's play.

On one hand, these rooms are made very important, and are thus huge choke points full of awesome battle and grandiose bases. Dual-node rooms have been known to change hands (or claws) many times during the game, making the tides of battle ebb and flow and stir the game up. Adding two of them might make things even more interesting.

It also gives the team holding "double" a morale boost. "Woo! Lots of res! Drop me an HMG and lets pwnzx0r!!1"

On the other hand, in "double node" maps, the game is less spread across the map, and some attention is drawn away from hive rooms. More concentrated resource flow means a game may turn into a war of attrition, which is boring. It also discourages exploration and may cause serious balance issues during testing that would be hard to resolve.

Lastly, the reason I want to make <i>two</i> double-node rooms in my map, besides the fact that this has never been done before, is because the map layout has the hives spread around MS evenly, meaning only one double-node room will leave one hive location at a disadvantage.


So, those are some of the pros and cons that have arrived to me... I don't really have a concrete idea of how this would work either way yet, though. So, one node, two node, one double, two double? Let's discuss.

Comments

  • TOmekkiTOmekki Join Date: 2003-11-25 Member: 23524Members
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    it has. ns_fenris, i believe, has 2 double res nodes.

    i personally don't really like double nodes. for those reasons that you kindly wrote down. i dunno. i like ns_nothing, eclipse and lost. they don't have double nodes. and i think that makes them much more interesting than, say, veil or caged.
  • esunaesuna Rock Bottom Join Date: 2003-04-03 Member: 15175Members, Constellation
    I would advise against having two double nodes. The thing about the double node is it's supposed to be hard to control, and if a marine team has taken the double, you're in for some problems.

    Because a double node is a single room, it's a lot easier to take or hold, purely by the convenience that they're both there. Given two double nodes, if you rush to them and control the two rooms, that's 4 nodes straight off the bat you control, meaning for the decent marine team, you're going to be swimming in res.
  • Vahn_PaktuVahn_Paktu Join Date: 2002-10-28 Member: 1666Members, Constellation
    I was thinking most maps have the 2 nodes right next to each other. If you want two nodes make it hard to control.
  • DjBourgeoisieDjBourgeoisie Join Date: 2003-08-28 Member: 20300Members
    I put in a double node room into a map. I think it is good, so long as properly done. Take into consideration the location, have it centered somewhere so its approx equal distance between the 3 hives, but not too far from rine start. You will be suprised how much balance this will create. When I command, and others I play with, double node is a valuable point to hold, and often determines who wins. More than 1 double node would be pretty lame though, thats my 2 cents.
  • ReeseReese Join Date: 2003-05-08 Member: 16143Members
    I think the double res is starting to become an overused tactic in strategic balance. In general I think the double nodes I see usually are too easy to hold onto. (with the exception of the new caged, which is a beast) Strategy-wise I think securing a double node is on the same level of achievement as holding a hive room. I guess what i'm trying to say is make sure if you're going to build a double that either team cannot hold it with anything less than 2x the cost of securing a single node.
  • MouseMouse The Lighter Side of Pessimism Join Date: 2002-03-02 Member: 263Members, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    As an example of a 'good' double node (IMO) I'll point you to the ns_hydrosity double node (Eastern Outlook).

    While the nodes are within sight of each other, and close; they also have a wall seperating the floorspace surrounding them.
    With the 3 hives in the top left, top right and bottom left corners of the map; the node is alone in the bottom right corner of the map.

    What this mean for map balance is that if one of the two nodes is under attack, you have to walk around the end of the wall to get to it, making it extremely hard to hold both nodes without a turret farm. Eastern outlook is also on it's lonesome in a corner of the map, not really on the way to any hives, which means getting it and a hive initially isn't feasable.
  • Lt_GravityLt_Gravity Join Date: 2003-04-28 Member: 15909Members
    no. simply no.

    > thats my opinion <

    because: I dont like any double resnode in the officials. the problem is that they will be the most important are in the map. if arines have it: bad luck to the aliens. if aliens have it: WORSE LUCK FOR MARINES! double res nodes say "plz, stay here and idle till we got enough res to do something big."
    single res-nodes seem to say "hurry ,we have no time so keep on the good action."

    instead of one or even two double res nodes, place more single restower. although iI think 8 single restower on one map should be enough to give the players a good feeling. and I think thats the point of mapping for ns, isnt it?
  • AndosAndos Join Date: 2003-10-17 Member: 21742Members
    I agree. ns_eclipse doesn't have doubble res nodes and i actually think that this is one of the reasons most people like it. (mostly win in a map vote)
  • jplovejplove Join Date: 2003-06-18 Member: 17475Members
    ns_bast has three "double-node" areas. The most obvious being 'Atmospheric Processing'. The other two aren't as easy to control.

    Tram Tunnel and Feedwater nodes.
    Databank Access and Refinery nodes.
  • Lt_GravityLt_Gravity Join Date: 2003-04-28 Member: 15909Members
    ths arent realy double resnode areas. if you countit this way, even eclipse has some of them, most obvious station acces and sub. double resnodes in its meaning should be subtitled by "two resnodes that are in range of sight to each other." double res might be a nice accesoir on some maps but if you decide to use it, you should use it WISELY! a double res must have entrances that are easy to use for both sides. weapon fire range and close-combat should be well balanced.
  • MachiavelliMachiavelli Join Date: 2003-07-27 Member: 18468Members
    edited January 2004
    As a general rule of thumb, you should only have 1 room with 2 nodes. This room shouldn't be to close to any start location (hive or marine start). The room should also generaly be hard to defend. Thus making it easy to take and change hands. This encourages desperate combat with a back and forth ebb of each side taking then losing ground. While most main rooms will have 2 ways in (hives, marine strart) it would be a good idea to try to give a 2x res room 3 or more enterances. This gives multiple flanks that defenders have to cover.

    You should never have more then 1 2x res room. Generaly maps have 10 resource nodes and 4 of them are used in the hive rooms and marine start. If you have two 2x res rooms then that leaves you with only 4 nodes that are alone. Since you won't want to put any of the 2x node rooms close to a starting point, you will reduce the number of possible lay outs that would work.

    As for the "fake" 2x node rooms like feedwater and tram tunnel on bast, these are kind of iffy. These would be nodes that are physicly close together, but take more time to travil between. I try to keep these to a minimum for siege purposes, but they are the mapper's call.
  • EriasErias Join Date: 2003-08-17 Member: 19878Members
    Yay! Lot's of input on my question. Lots of good, intelligent points. You guys rule. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->

    So far I see things leaning away from "double nodes" ... I'll certainly be taking this into consideration, as should other mappers. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
  • SheepeSheepe Join Date: 2003-12-22 Member: 24650Members
    If there are several vents that can hit the Res nodes and be defended (somewhat) by a turret, then It'd work, but the res can't be next to each other, and the area has to be small enough to discourage turret farms and turret hics. (Keep yo' shottys ready!) hehehe... but seriously I think a double res could add a really powerful element to gameplay if placed properly.
  • A_Boojum_SnarkA_Boojum_Snark Join Date: 2003-09-07 Member: 20628Members
    I tend to not like double res rooms because of the point that has been mentioned somewhere in here. They either become a very large focus of action, moreso than MS or hives, or one team get its and holds it for the rest of the game with no more action than 2 nodes that are seperate.
  • HazeHaze O RLY? Join Date: 2003-07-07 Member: 18018Members, Constellation
    edited January 2004
    I would like to see a map that *only* has double res nodes. Would be intresting to see how the gameplay worked out with the extra res boost from securing one room and how people would go after the rooms.

    EDIT:: Also, if I created such a map like that (ya...with my "mapping skillz") I would like to see how the game would play out with no res in marine start, or any hives. Just double nodes. No one could camp back and the res would actually be the prime factor of the game.
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