That_Annoying_KidSire of TitlesJoin Date: 2003-03-01Member: 14175Members, Constellation
<!--QuoteBegin--i'm lost+Jan 4 2004, 01:16 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (i'm lost @ Jan 4 2004, 01:16 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The arms lab shakes when it's upgrading? That's good to know. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> As stated above by Darkling: any marine building that looks like it's shaking/rocking back and forth is in the process of upgrading.
Also when the armoury is done upgrading the four little squares on the side near the armoury pop out, and the tooltip will say it's an advanced armoury
furthermore, yes the obs is very good target due to it's low health. If your the only one in the base I would get the obs first and *then* go after upgrading structures or the armslab/armoury/proto
DC_DarklingJoin Date: 2003-07-10Member: 18068Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver
I nuke obs alot. Its the key to push ya team in picking SC next hive, which makes a more challanging game. Sure with n00bs its harder but I get tired of the eternal DC MC SC. I played only kharaa wins last few weeks.
Armory! that way they lose access to Proto, obs, arms lab and if its upgraded they lose hgms and gl's
Id go - armory, proto, obs, armslab, ip's. Depending on the situation it may be easier to kill the ip then armory.
Its really based aorund the game situation, if you want ot stop their HA rushes, you kill the proto. If they have a proto lab, you would generally want to kill that and the armory since those two buildings produce the bulk of marine equipment.
I would have gone with taking out the first IP then if I thought I didn't have time to take out the second I would have gone RT because if you position yourself right a skulk is very hard to hit in the right position and if they come to get you they usually die. The armory and then a last ditch at the IP because you've done major damage right there.
1.) kill the obs means no new PGs until another is built 2.) has really low HP and can fall really quickly 3.) if ur hive is being sieged and rines have only one obs it releivs comm of his scans 4.) 20 res to replace!
next probably would be the armory 1.) no Hvy weapns if u get it 2.) 3 & 1/2 min research time for new hvy weapons
next depending on what hes got built if he has a proto id munch that
usually when im in enemy terrotory , i freak out and run around and bite anything <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> (sometimes getting 1 kill :/)
If it weren't for the fact that most upgrades are, once researched, only reliant on the building existing to get the benefits.
Arms Lab would be a great thing to munch late game when they have ARM3 WEAP3, <b>EXCEPT</b> for the fact that A) it doesn't instantly rip the upgrades from all marines in the field, only the ones respawning, and B) all the com has to do to get his upgrades back is build another arms lab. It isn't like he needs to re-research the ups he has already purchased.
The Proto would be another great thing to munch, if not for the fact that this ALSO does not cancel the upgrades the com has purchased for it already. All the com has to do is drop another one after the fact, and it's back to sending HA and JP back into the field.
Phasegate should always be your first target of choice, simply to prevent the rines from phasing back and busting you.
Armory is second choice, but this is only AFTER you encounter HMG or GLers in the field. The reason for this is that putting down an un-upgraded armory is no loss to the com. The armory is only a valuable target AFTER it has been upgraded, since it is the only structure which requires the com to re-upgrade it after the first one is destroyed.
Rocking marine structures should be examined. Any time you see a marine structure rocking around on the ground, it means that it is upgrading.
Rocking Armory: Kill it, it is upgrading. But don't feel drawn to destroy it until it stops as well. After all, the armory is a bigger and more valuable target the longer the game goes on. Go for something else instead. There won't be a proto by this point, so maybe go for the IP or Obs.
Rocking Proto: KILL IT. KILL IT NOW. Ignore the armory, ignore anything but the phasegate and respawning LA marines, and kill the Proto before it stops shaking around. This is the only chance you have to effectively stop the research going on which will give the com HA or JP. If it stops rocking before you're done killing it, you're too late.
Rocking Arms Lab: Kill this thing too. Hopefully the com just spent 30-40 Res on a high upgrade level. If you don't kill it before it stops, too late, but kill it anyway.
Killing the armory is not THAT huge a loss to the com, even if it's upgraded, unless you kill the proto with it. Frankly, a HA or JP with a shotgun is just as nasty as one with an HMG or GL, and HMG and GL will be coming in three minutes. The key is to find that magic moment when the Proto is shaking around in the base. If you kill the jittery Proto, and then the upped Armory, you've achieved a coup about as lucky as a random rambo marine entering the hive and knifing all three of your DCs. The com just spent cash just on the structure alone, THEN on the upgrade, which you interupt and force him to do again, and then only AFTER he spends three minutes with just Arms Lab upgrades and shotties. I love doing this as a Fade. Blink allows you to enter their base with almost no problem, and you generally have the health and armor to deal with any armory humpers or base guards or minefields. With regen and ruthless IP camping (remember, every 10 seconds, a marine spawns from an IP), you can kill half the base before the panicked com who is usually in the chair as a LA LMGer figures out a solution.
OH, JUST FYI, beware coms that plan ahead for these things and make a mine-trap for Fades, or exit the chair long enough to pick up an HMG and HA. It's always embarrasing when the com jumps out as a fully upgraded badass and kills you as a Fade.
Obs are always a nice target, if just because they are so weak and easy to take down.
Also, consider eating the marine start res. If you can hang onto the side of the RT, rather than just bite the legs of the thing, you cannot be shot at unless the marine walks AROUND THE SIDE of the RT to get you. In maps like Caged, Veil, and Nothing, you can eat the RT almost with impunity, and simply kill any marine trying to get to your side. This forces the com to be distracted, and if you kill the RT, he will have to plonk down 20 res for another replacement, maybe even spending an extra 10 res on mines to guard it. Since the marine start res is so infrequently electrified, it's a nice target even on Elec rushes.
NEVER eat the CC. Even after eating their entire base, FFS, eat the RT, and don't even bother with the CC. The CC does NOTHING for the marine team except give the ability to build IPs. The com will be relocating or dealing with a half-dead team at this point. IF YOUR TEAM WASTES THEIR TIME EATING THE USELESS CC AT MARINE START, YOU WILL ALLOW THE MARINES TIME TO BUILD AND RESPAWN AT THEIR NEW BASE.
Eating CCs is a huge huge huge huge waste of time. Ignore any and all CCs unless it is literally the last marine structure on the map.
Also, if you can ever arrange it, try to get your entire team to rush marine start and eat the armory at about the 5-7 minute mark. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> It will screw them up bad.
personally, i kill whatever is upgrading first. thats the cost of the structure plus the cost of the upgrade.
i'm not too fond of HA, so i take out the proto lab, if thats not there usually the obs, armory, or anything else that can go down quickly.
i think the key is to be efficient in time vs cost, and make sure that if you start to kill something that you get it down, else it will be welded, and turrets will be up the next time you come there.
<!--QuoteBegin--vP-|Pikey+Jan 1 2004, 12:10 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (vP-|Pikey @ Jan 1 2004, 12:10 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Armoury -> Proto -> Obs -> IPs -> Arms Lab -> CC
TF not in the list since you said it didn't exist.. anywho, that's what i'd do. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Agreed.
<!--QuoteBegin--Swift Idiot+Jan 18 2004, 03:50 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Swift Idiot @ Jan 18 2004, 03:50 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Arms Lab would be a great thing to munch late game when they have ARM3 WEAP3, <b>EXCEPT</b> for the fact that A) it doesn't instantly rip the upgrades from all marines in the field, only the ones respawning, and B) all the com has to do to get his upgrades back is build another arms lab. It isn't like he needs to re-research the ups he has already purchased. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> not even that at the moment marines keep their upgrades without an Arms lab as long as they have 1 active res node
Just to confirm - the Arms Lab being destroyed will automatically take away all upgrades in 3.0, right? It seems like the Kharaa have been nerfed a bit, so I'm hoping the rines get some sort of nerfing too.
That's the problem with long games - once the marines have teched up, it's nearly impossible to weaken them - you just have to hope you destroy them. While if 3 onoses die during late game, you can expect the heavy train to have a good chance of running out and tearing some #@^$ up. The arms lab vunerability would be a welcome change.
If it is a Advance Armory, get it since that costs 45 resources. Observitory is also a good target, the least health building, and it will disable Motion Tracking, which can help your allies alot. But above all else, I would say IP.
I always go for the observatory myself. But that's because if I'm in the marine base, I have cloaking. So taking out the observatory makes me a heck of a lot more deadly.
Half the time, they don't realize the obs is gone until I've bitten the face off of an armory humper and left him with a little surprise in his pants.
Comments
As stated above by Darkling: any marine building that looks like it's shaking/rocking back and forth is in the process of upgrading.
Also when the armoury is done upgrading the four little squares on the side near the armoury pop out, and the tooltip will say it's an advanced armoury
furthermore, yes the obs is very good target due to it's low health. If your the only one in the base I would get the obs first and *then* go after upgrading structures or the armslab/armoury/proto
Id go - armory, proto, obs, armslab, ip's. Depending on the situation it may be easier to kill the ip then armory.
Its really based aorund the game situation, if you want ot stop their HA rushes, you kill the proto.
If they have a proto lab, you would generally want to kill that and the armory since those two buildings produce the bulk of marine equipment.
- What chamber I started with
- RT count
- Marine count
Generally on your typical DMS game, I go for the armory because it's the base of all things that are dangerous to the players
This includes :
- Shotguns
- HMGs
- GLs
- Mines
- Welders (yes welders)
- Arms Labs
- Proto Lab (when upgraded)
Generally after the armory, they begin to start losing their Arms Lab because hey, it boosts their armor and weapons, who won't want to destroy that?
1.) kill the obs means no new PGs until another is built
2.) has really low HP and can fall really quickly
3.) if ur hive is being sieged and rines have only one obs it releivs comm of his scans
4.) 20 res to replace!
next probably would be the armory
1.) no Hvy weapns if u get it
2.) 3 & 1/2 min research time for new hvy weapons
next depending on what hes got built if he has a proto id munch that
then the IPs
2. ) Arms Lab
3. ) Prototype Lab
4.) Obs
Arms Lab would be a great thing to munch late game when they have ARM3 WEAP3, <b>EXCEPT</b> for the fact that A) it doesn't instantly rip the upgrades from all marines in the field, only the ones respawning, and B) all the com has to do to get his upgrades back is build another arms lab. It isn't like he needs to re-research the ups he has already purchased.
The Proto would be another great thing to munch, if not for the fact that this ALSO does not cancel the upgrades the com has purchased for it already. All the com has to do is drop another one after the fact, and it's back to sending HA and JP back into the field.
Phasegate should always be your first target of choice, simply to prevent the rines from phasing back and busting you.
Armory is second choice, but this is only AFTER you encounter HMG or GLers in the field. The reason for this is that putting down an un-upgraded armory is no loss to the com. The armory is only a valuable target AFTER it has been upgraded, since it is the only structure which requires the com to re-upgrade it after the first one is destroyed.
Rocking marine structures should be examined. Any time you see a marine structure rocking around on the ground, it means that it is upgrading.
Rocking Armory: Kill it, it is upgrading. But don't feel drawn to destroy it until it stops as well. After all, the armory is a bigger and more valuable target the longer the game goes on. Go for something else instead. There won't be a proto by this point, so maybe go for the IP or Obs.
Rocking Proto: KILL IT. KILL IT NOW. Ignore the armory, ignore anything but the phasegate and respawning LA marines, and kill the Proto before it stops shaking around. This is the only chance you have to effectively stop the research going on which will give the com HA or JP. If it stops rocking before you're done killing it, you're too late.
Rocking Arms Lab: Kill this thing too. Hopefully the com just spent 30-40 Res on a high upgrade level. If you don't kill it before it stops, too late, but kill it anyway.
Killing the armory is not THAT huge a loss to the com, even if it's upgraded, unless you kill the proto with it. Frankly, a HA or JP with a shotgun is just as nasty as one with an HMG or GL, and HMG and GL will be coming in three minutes. The key is to find that magic moment when the Proto is shaking around in the base. If you kill the jittery Proto, and then the upped Armory, you've achieved a coup about as lucky as a random rambo marine entering the hive and knifing all three of your DCs. The com just spent cash just on the structure alone, THEN on the upgrade, which you interupt and force him to do again, and then only AFTER he spends three minutes with just Arms Lab upgrades and shotties. I love doing this as a Fade. Blink allows you to enter their base with almost no problem, and you generally have the health and armor to deal with any armory humpers or base guards or minefields. With regen and ruthless IP camping (remember, every 10 seconds, a marine spawns from an IP), you can kill half the base before the panicked com who is usually in the chair as a LA LMGer figures out a solution.
OH, JUST FYI, beware coms that plan ahead for these things and make a mine-trap for Fades, or exit the chair long enough to pick up an HMG and HA. It's always embarrasing when the com jumps out as a fully upgraded badass and kills you as a Fade.
Obs are always a nice target, if just because they are so weak and easy to take down.
Also, consider eating the marine start res. If you can hang onto the side of the RT, rather than just bite the legs of the thing, you cannot be shot at unless the marine walks AROUND THE SIDE of the RT to get you. In maps like Caged, Veil, and Nothing, you can eat the RT almost with impunity, and simply kill any marine trying to get to your side. This forces the com to be distracted, and if you kill the RT, he will have to plonk down 20 res for another replacement, maybe even spending an extra 10 res on mines to guard it. Since the marine start res is so infrequently electrified, it's a nice target even on Elec rushes.
NEVER eat the CC. Even after eating their entire base, FFS, eat the RT, and don't even bother with the CC. The CC does NOTHING for the marine team except give the ability to build IPs. The com will be relocating or dealing with a half-dead team at this point. IF YOUR TEAM WASTES THEIR TIME EATING THE USELESS CC AT MARINE START, YOU WILL ALLOW THE MARINES TIME TO BUILD AND RESPAWN AT THEIR NEW BASE.
Eating CCs is a huge huge huge huge waste of time. Ignore any and all CCs unless it is literally the last marine structure on the map.
Also, if you can ever arrange it, try to get your entire team to rush marine start and eat the armory at about the 5-7 minute mark. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> It will screw them up bad.
i'm not too fond of HA, so i take out the proto lab, if thats not there usually the obs, armory, or anything else that can go down quickly.
i think the key is to be efficient in time vs cost, and make sure that if you start to kill something that you get it down, else it will be welded, and turrets will be up the next time you come there.
TF not in the list since you said it didn't exist.. anywho, that's what i'd do. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Agreed.
2. ) Arms Lab
3. ) Prototype Lab
4.) Obs <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Changed my mind since I just won the game for my team.
1. Arms Lab
2. Armory
3. Proto
4. Obs
5. IPs
6. CC
not even that at the moment marines keep their upgrades without an Arms lab as long as they have 1 active res node
That's the problem with long games - once the marines have teched up, it's nearly impossible to weaken them - you just have to hope you destroy them. While if 3 onoses die during late game, you can expect the heavy train to have a good chance of running out and tearing some #@^$ up. The arms lab vunerability would be a welcome change.
But that's because if I'm in the marine base, I have cloaking.
So taking out the observatory makes me a heck of a lot more deadly.
Half the time, they don't realize the obs is gone until I've bitten the face off of an armory humper and left him with a little surprise in his pants.