Sickening
Justin_Case
Join Date: 2002-08-08 Member: 1114Members
Join Date: 2002-08-08 Member: 1114Members
I think many people here need to chill with the constant sucking up and the flaming of the ones who don´t suck up enough. And Im not just talking about myself here. Of course the NS team and the mappers are doing a great job, but do they really need this constant flow of love and affirmation? Are they like suicidal teenage girls that will kill themselves if you don´t include excessive amounts of compliments and sucking-up in every post?
And any kind of criticism seems to be interpreted as a personal insult to flayra and NS.
Its as if some people here think that they will get respect from the NS team and other forummembers if they flame enough and suckup enough. For example, if some poor sucker ask something like when its coming out? Does EVERYONE really have to jump on him and repeat the exact same verbal abuse as the first replier?
I think everyone here are very anxious to play NS and very impressed by the work of the NS-team. Maybe some are more sceptical, but they are obviously interested enough to become forummembers and write messages. Isnt that enough? Do you have to crawl naked in the dirt, wipping each other bloody, chanting "We are not worthy" and "I love NS" 10.000 times to be accepted in the sect?
If I had made a map for example, I would be far more interested in constructive criticism than replies like:
"Wooow This is so fantastic so ####### incredibly awesome I cant believe it. Droool, can I be your friend? Can I touch you? Please give me your real adress I want to send you loveletters." (ok I exaggurated slightly)
As a disclaimer, I must point out that this is NOT directed towards everyone in here. You know who you are...
And any kind of criticism seems to be interpreted as a personal insult to flayra and NS.
Its as if some people here think that they will get respect from the NS team and other forummembers if they flame enough and suckup enough. For example, if some poor sucker ask something like when its coming out? Does EVERYONE really have to jump on him and repeat the exact same verbal abuse as the first replier?
I think everyone here are very anxious to play NS and very impressed by the work of the NS-team. Maybe some are more sceptical, but they are obviously interested enough to become forummembers and write messages. Isnt that enough? Do you have to crawl naked in the dirt, wipping each other bloody, chanting "We are not worthy" and "I love NS" 10.000 times to be accepted in the sect?
If I had made a map for example, I would be far more interested in constructive criticism than replies like:
"Wooow This is so fantastic so ####### incredibly awesome I cant believe it. Droool, can I be your friend? Can I touch you? Please give me your real adress I want to send you loveletters." (ok I exaggurated slightly)
As a disclaimer, I must point out that this is NOT directed towards everyone in here. You know who you are...
Comments
But don't worry, once the mod releases and lots of people try it, there will be percentage that don't like it. Then they will come to the forums and say the NS team sucks, yell 'Flayra is n0t as l337 as g00$em4n', and so on; you may not like the alternative you will see when that time comes.
Until then, I personally prefer touchy-feely to venomnous hatred.
<a href="http://www.stripcreator.com/view.php?author=MonsE&ID=91671" target="_blank">You do have an ally in Coil, though...</a>
and lol, WTF!? M3h spl33n!!!!!!
that line (and comic strip) is now without a doubt a classic...along with of course the ones about Fam <!--emo&;)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'><!--endemo-->
NS sux!
Th1s mod iz buggy!
Why t3h #### can't I buy any weapons?
Where are t3h l33t hosties?
And such. I'm not going to get too much NS playing done.
Point: I'm not going to start worshipping them. They get 'well done' and 'great!' but they are hardly cult figures.
This forum is not without criticism (I'd wonder if real people actually came here if there wasn't any). I personally don't see anything wrong with saying that you like what you see (as long as you don't go overboard with it - which I assume is what you're getting at).
But what is there to do about it, anyway? The mods are hardly going to lock or nuke a 'I love NS' topic.
edit: Wow, that was fast. When I started replying to this topic it only had 3 posts.
Soon.
We try to lean towards free speech when possible here, JC (although we are a benign dictatorship, not a democracy). Your topic was originally zapped by a moderator who wasn't sure if it was too harsh or not, but I thought you stayed fairly civil.
Keep fighting The Man.
*gets out his NS prayer rug*
Yes, I'm sick of the "Hooray for Flayra" posts. Yes, I think flaming of newcomers is bad, wrong, etc.
On the other hand, let's take a brief (ok, not so brief) tour of the Natural Selection world. First, compare <a href="http://www.readyroom.org/models.html" target="_blank">Natural Selection's models</a> to those in even a mod as successful as <a href="http://www.counter-strike.net/pics/pic2.jpg" target="_blank">CS</a>. I'm not even going to bring up the pre-HD pack HL scientist in that screenshot. NS modellers and skinners are better than some professional companies - compare the <a href="http://www.natural-selection.org/images/hive1.jpg" target="_blank">concept art</a> of the hive with the <a href="http://www.natural-selection.org/images/hive2.jpg" target="_blank">actual in-game model</a>. And when you consider they're dealing with 4-year-old software, they put even some newer games to shame.
Then there are NS maps. Compare a <a href="http://www.readyroom.org/ns_maps/relic25/ns_bast0004_FULL.jpg" target="_blank">shot from NS_Bast</a> or Greedo's community map <a href="http://pages.cthome.net/mrolek/lost09.jpg" target="_blank">NS_Lost</a> with, say, <a href="http://www.planethalflife.com/images/screens/rhl_031002_2.jpg" target="_blank">this one from Resident HL</a>. NS has some of the best mappers in the entire HL modding community - and I'm not even talking about the official maps, but some of the community maps as well!
Finally, let's look at what Flayra himself has done.
Exhibit A: Counter-strike, the most popular online FPS in the world, is essentially HL team deathmatch with modifications - new weapons, some new physics behaviors, a couple different objective-based scenarios. But all in all, it's not all that different.
Exhibit B: Natural Selection. Flayra has built a Real-Time Strategy game over the Half-life engine. It has everything you'd expect in an RTS - a resource model that affects both sides, buildable structures, upgrades, commandable troops (via waypoints), the works. And yet it retains the FPS that it comes from - it is essentially 2 games in one, built on the same engine, running simultaneously and in perfect concert.
The elements he has taken into consideration and successfully created are mind-boggling. Turrets can only be built within range of a turret factory. Available alien upgrades are dependent on the number of hives or the specific upgrade chambers online. Certain weapons are more effective against different units or buildings, or have different effects depending on what they're used on.
My point is, yes, people drool a lot in these forums. Yes, every screenshot and changelog is met by buckets of praise. But maybe, just maybe, it's actually deserved. Flayra, the NS team, and even normal community members have done things with Half-life that probably would have been called impossible 4 years ago.
I, for one, don't hesitate to put up pretty harsh critiques of some of the things I find in the mapping, artwork, or fanfic forums. However, when something truly excellent comes along, I give it the respect it certainly deserves.
I've never sucked up myself(I've complimented the team in topics started souly for that, but that's it) and I've never flamed anyone for starting a "When is it done!?!" topic(mainly because someone asking a harmless question doesn't exactly tear me apart emotionally), I can't see anything wrong with a little bit of praise towards people working hard to bring us a completely free game, and I really haven't seen excessive groveling. Speaking of which, has people complimenting the developers really got you so distressed and made you feel so downtrodden that you had to make a topic dedicated to attacking them? More so, how is attacking people who compliment the developers of the mod better than just complimenting them?
And, justin....... i just think you are jealous because nobody is praising you =P
*gets out his NS prayer rug*<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
that was beatiful sgt. did u make it up?
and amen to that coil. sometimes ppl forget what the ns team are doin with the 4 year old hl engine. and they do it so professionaly. i mean just take a look at *snip!*.
edited due to praise.
And certainly I appreciate mappers etc would want criticism that again is something that cant really be given froma few screenshots beyond some of the rather banal comments like " the light above the door is too red" .... :x <!--emo&:p--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'><!--endemo-->
/me returns to waiting patiently and not asking questions that will be answered by the manual <!--emo&:0--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':0'><!--endemo-->
who you <!--emo&:D--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'><!--endemo-->
Conversely, I also do my best to make comments to help the person improve the map. If I don't like parts of it, I'll tell them. If I think of a way to fix something I don't like, I'll tell them. You should have seen my critique on MonsE's ns_FullbrightedHollowCubeTexturedWithAAATRIGGER.
I see where you're coming from but I don't see anything wrong with it, apart from maybe killing a smidgen of bandwidth. It's the people who make posts entirely consisting of ":o" that tick me off.
--Scythe--
P.S. I now foresee a post after mine:
"
:o
"
Conversely, I also do my best to make comments to help the person improve the map. If I don't like parts of it, I'll tell them. If I think of a way to fix something I don't like, I'll tell them. You should have seen my critique on MonsE's ns_FullbrightedHollowCubeTexturedWithAAATRIGGER.
I see where you're coming from but I don't see anything wrong with it, apart from maybe killing a smidgen of bandwidth. It's the people who make posts entirely consisting of ":o" that tick me off.
--Scythe--
P.S. I now foresee a post after mine:
"
:o
"<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
hhmmm, good way of looking at it =)
The point I'm getting at is that it is YOUR PERCEPTION that these people are "sucking up" but who are you to judge how another person expresses themselves and for what reason? I think to chastise people because you percieve them as being "Fanboys" or "Groupies" is unfair and unnecessary. If you find it a little annoying or immature do as I do, ignore it and move on.
This post is an example of something that I would just stop monitoring after reading the first post. However, and this is my opinion of course, I think it must be stated that it is somewhat ill-mannered for you to make such comments when you are not on the recieving end of these "Praise Posts." Perhaps you should have a little consideration for the mapper and developers who are being praised and allow them to interject when they feel a comment/praise is unnecessary. I'm sure they do not need you to do it for them.
To sum it up, I think this post is unconstructive, I also didn't think that Comic Strip on the relating topic was very funny either, although I do recommend browsing through the rest of them, there are some frickin' gut-busters in there. Follow the House Rules, kick back check out some hot screenies, pick up some NS Intel through the grapevine, and express yourself whenever you feel the need to. <!--emo&:D--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'><!--endemo-->
This is,
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot
Over and Out.
Well, that, and I felt like saying something that maybe many others were thinking but didnt really want to say in case they got a bad response.
In any case, I haven't felt anything I've read as "sucking up" - though I admit the praise gets abundant at times; but it's genuine.
however I think you did come off a tad harsh (however all of you posts after said first post have shown us what you actualy mean, thanks)
I am one of the pwople who will give prais on most things, however I also tend to stick in actual praise (that specific movement looked realy good) and I am willing to put in negative coments also (I still think the Hvy Marine with the shotgun looks sorta screwy, but what ever)
oh well, this is why I like this board, there can, and will be intelegent discussions
<!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo-->
there is also a reason I am never in mapping,m I don't know SQUAT! ;D
As an artist, (Like every other dev team member, even MonsE), I personally find it much more satisfying to be respected for what I do rather than be adored.
For one, you can easily respect lots of people and also respect yourself more, than if you 'adore' plenty of mappers, artists, coders, etc, telling each that their work is 'the best thing I've ever seen' or something to that extent. Not only does that devalue your good sentiments, but it also makes you look rather a slut.
Thankfully things aren't *that* bad around here, but it's had its moments, especially in the mapping forum.
Another good thing about respect as opposed to admiration on an extreme level, is that if you are let down by the artist in question, you don't suddenly feel like a fool and feel hurt. Respect is a two way street.
In fact, I think Grand Theft Auto brought forth an interesting phrase which I personally believe is something very near the truth - 'Respect is everything.'
Well, that, and I felt like saying something that maybe many others were thinking but didnt really want to say in case they got a bad response.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I didn't realize what you were doing was restating your position from a prior discussion. I certainly respect your right to defend your opinion especially if you feel that you have been unfairly attacked. I have no doubt people feel the same way you do. As it is hinted in my post, I get the same impression as you from certain posts I review here.
I think of it this way. The way you conduct/express yourself in your posts is how the community will view you. If your posts are nothing more then unnecessary SPAMS then the community will treat you accordingly.
Again, your civility is appreciated. <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo-->
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot
Out.