New Kinds Of Maps
GringoBoy87
Join Date: 2003-12-23 Member: 24702Members
Join Date: 2003-12-23 Member: 24702Members
<div class="IPBDescription">something other than closed spaces</div> well i thought it'd be nice if there was a forest map or something of that sort. ii'm thinking of an open air map, so to say, instead of closed in space ships or the likes. just to bring some variety into the maps.
Comments
ever heared of things like commanderview or r_speeds? a pure outdoor map is quite hard to create... for ns it would be near to impossible, too much restrictions, problems etc.
Or if you don't want to click
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Avoid Outdoor Spaces - Natural Selection gameplay is balanced for interior environments and small spaces. In an open air map, flying and crawling aliens pose special problems that don't have a clear solution. If outdoor areas are used in a map, some explanation must be given why boundaries exist on the sky (these boundaries should not be invisible, and they should not be a texture that crawling aliens can wall-walk on. A map can have exterior views without causing these problems, and solutions like biodomes are recommended (but not encouraged) over open-air environments.
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It would be cool though but needs a lot of work and atention on these problems.
Mayb in a few years on the half-life 2 source? <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
[edit]<b><a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=62266' target='_blank'>Unofficial outdoor mapping guidelines</a></b>[/edit]
GreetzZz Kouji San
watch out for rspeeds though
But I've been getting kind of tired of all the indoor, dark maps in NS, and have been kinda aching for something outdoors.
P.S. Biodome is like, my favorite hive <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Possably if the dome was a part of the skybox and and you made the skybox domish...
Ok, honestly, does ANYONE pay attention to 1.) the map guidelines or 2.) the theme of NS or 3.) why the official maps are "official?" Pet peve #34: people saying, "OGM! LIEK MAEK AN 0UTD00R M4P D00D! ITS L337 D00D!" Quit it. Does it really take that long to you know... <b>THINK</b>?! It doesn't take long at all to think of the above three thingies I mentioned. I believe that if some people can take the time to stop and think about these things, we would avoid 90% of the stupidest questions asked on these forums. My request to people: 1.) THINK! and 2.) Stop being dumb. That is all.
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Ok, honestly, does ANYONE pay attention to 1.) the map guidelines or 2.) the theme of NS or 3.) why the official maps are "official?" Pet peve #34: people saying, "OGM! LIEK MAEK AN 0UTD00R M4P D00D! ITS L337 D00D!" Quit it. Does it really take that long to you know... <b>THINK</b>?! It doesn't take long at all to think of the above three thingies I mentioned. I believe that if some people can take the time to stop and think about these things, we would avoid 90% of the stupidest questions asked on these forums. My request to people: 1.) THINK! and 2.) Stop being dumb. That is all.
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Just to add on to the rant,
USE THE NEWBIE MAPPING FORUMS
Quite alot of threads come under the syllabus,
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Post here if you're new to NS mapping and have questions that weren't answered by the FAQs.
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Obviously anyone posting this would have realised that the question wasn't completely covered in the FAQ, it only said outside maps weren't going to be official. Secondly, its the type of thing I'd prefer to see there, rather than on a forum where people are showcasing their maps, and discussing technical problems and technological improvements on mapping.
[EDIT]
It would be nice to have discussion with mods about possibly renaming or getting people to use the newbie mapping forum alot more. I think 'newbie' is putting people off. I'm also, like Zazi, fed up of the stuff (like this) I see on page 1 of the mapping forums.
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Negative.
That is not "breaking the rules" the guidelines say "AVOID outdoor areas" it doesn't say do not include any at all. Furthermore they are indeed guidelines and not rules. Guidelines are there to "guide" you in the right direction. Rules are there with consequences and are non-negotiable.
This being said the bottom line is that an entirely outdoor map is not possible IF you plan on having ANY eye candy and by that I mean like one computer panel. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> It says to avoid outdoor ares because of the limits of the HL Engine and the theme of NS.
Now if someone were to create a large set of corridors connected to many outside areas then that seems very possible and maybe even fun, not sure. Try it I guess is the best I can come up with.
~ DarkATi
Good job Dark. sorry Zazi/Thrusday. <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Newer maps should also avoid the cliche:
Engin Room, Bridge, Long boaring hall ways that don't go anywhere, and generic room full of moniters.
There are other parts of ships you can do, such as the armory, hospital, barracks, kitchen, ship's store/post office, docking bay (there are no real docking bays, just air locks to them) ext.
Newer maps should also avoid the cliche:
Engin Room, Bridge, Long boaring hall ways that don't go anywhere, and generic room full of moniters.
There are other parts of ships you can do, such as the armory, hospital, barracks, kitchen, ship's store/post office, docking bay (there are no real docking bays, just air locks to them) ext. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Mineshaft looks like a mine / cave to me, and less like a spaceship.
Ok, honestly, does ANYONE pay attention to 1.) the map guidelines or 2.) the theme of NS or 3.) why the official maps are "official?" Pet peve #34: people saying, "OGM! LIEK MAEK AN 0UTD00R M4P D00D! ITS L337 D00D!" Quit it. Does it really take that long to you know... <b>THINK</b>?! It doesn't take long at all to think of the above three thingies I mentioned. I believe that if some people can take the time to stop and think about these things, we would avoid 90% of the stupidest questions asked on these forums. My request to people: 1.) THINK! and 2.) Stop being dumb. That is all.
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do the official maps follow the guidelines? players, open your eyes and start to realize!
the biggest shock was veil in the 2.0 the fact, that you coulndt use stairways as an onos without risking to get shot down by anyone and the fact that the marinebase was "/stuck"ers paradise, convinced me, that the ns maps dont get tested well in the betatests. this map even "overrides" the logic of ways out of the marinebase: marines have to walk miles to the first crossing. thats no fun.
so we will all continue our projects and use our brain instead of the mapping guidelines, that are 50% crap.
*edit* Gameplay > looks I estimate that 99% of custom maps I have tested have horrible layout, and only look good. Most mappers make that mistake, they need to focus on layout more and then worry about how it looks.
Mods release offical wads, but if anyone uses them, their map gets labled as boring and looking to much like map_x.
To double the problem with NS, a lot of the brush work and themes look the same also.
Mineshaft dosen't look like a cave/mine because there are:
No actual mines, only one area with rocks
No shafts
No areas that would process rocks for the menrials
No mining equipment
No sleeping quarters, ext; mines aren't that big, it would have been good to show signs of life besides a big table.
On a different note, if you want outdoors use a biodome... maybe a nicer one than origin though.
Edit: And if you want to see an attempt at an outdoor map, search for the map ns_surface. It shows exactly why outdoor maps just do not work.
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Ok, honestly, does ANYONE pay attention to 1.) the map guidelines or 2.) the theme of NS or 3.) why the official maps are "official?" Pet peve #34: people saying, "OGM! LIEK MAEK AN 0UTD00R M4P D00D! ITS L337 D00D!" Quit it. Does it really take that long to you know... THINK?! It doesn't take long at all to think of the above three thingies I mentioned. I believe that if some people can take the time to stop and think about these things, we would avoid 90% of the stupidest questions asked on these forums. My request to people: 1.) THINK! and 2.) Stop being dumb. That is all.
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WHOOP DE F-ING DO. who cares what the guidliness say(I mean there helpful but thats it, there GUIDELINES, NOT RULES), NS=good theme/nice work/way to go flayra/etc. , Who says it would be official? there are lots of unofficial fun maps(take siege as an example lots of people like it). If lots of people want a outdoor map, than aint that telling you something? and where else to ask about there to be an outdoor map made/found than the MAPPING FORUM? My request to YOU: 1.) THINK! and 2.) Stop being dumb.
HL IS NOT MEANT TO DO BIG OUTDOOR AREAS.
The whole engine was made (from Q1 and parts of Q2) for rooms to be small and linear. Ever played HL Single Player?
Ever played the SURFACE TENSION part? (best of them all btw <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo--> ) Every outside area you seen that you think it big is an illusion. Most of it is unplayable space. And if you went in there, it would be r_speed hell.
there is nothing in there about no outdoor maps period
A huge OPEN forest no
a Martian Canyon yes
Look @ DOD's Forest Map, Look at Vanilla HL's 10 missions in the freaking Desert, for open spaces look @ FA's Golan Map or Portions of Willow.
You CANT generate UT2k3 Distances with HL so do ask for that
but those are just guidelines and not rules nor should they be rules. Its up to the mapper to decide what they want to do.
You should have a map request forum so it snaggs this stuff.
Its fine for the NS team to not reccomdend outside maps...however I think that dwarfs the creative venu for maps. You can only make so many interior Space Stations and the such.
No sleeping quarters, ext; mines aren't that big, it would have been good to show signs of life besides a big table. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
and why there is an area that is called "sleeping quarters"???
I use up t 4 mb texture memory, that will be lowered a bit cuase there are some I didnt want to us in my project. however, even with 3 mb of textures you can create a wonderful, interesting, cool looking map, believe me. personally I hate eclipse and veil, only for the cause that all te areas look the same, at least eclipse has good gameplay but the looks...
and to te wads that come along with ns: the ns2.wad issowhat cool! many mapers showed that they know how to use the set, some combat maps are a good example...
Immersion. When you're playing a game and your really immersed you forget that your in a game and you start to think that your in a real place. With outdoor areas you have to draw the line (or place the sky brushes) somewhere and it ruins the immersion when you run into the sky brushes.
Also, outdoor areas with areas where you can view long distances affect the ballance of the classes. Marines have mostly ranged weapons while Aliens have mostly melee. It would be rather frustrating to be running a 100 m dash to bite a marine just to have him turn around when you're still 50 m away and get shot.
The NS Devs are also trying to keep a constent theme. If you read one of the backgrounds/FAQs/Something (I forget) they talk about how NS is all about claustrofobic (sp?) INDOOR environments.
For:
The origional Half-life showed that you CAN do outdoor areas in the Half-Life engine although you need to have a good grasp of all the tools at your disposal. Especially think of the chapter Surface Tension. You have the whole scene at the dam, you have several different canyons. If you notice how they did them you never have long straight areas, they are always curved. If you look at the dam area from above it's in sorta a 's' shape. You could do outdoor areas you would just need to keep 'bending' them to keep them from killing half-life. The bends are also helpfull because they would keep from making the aliens do 100 m dashes to hit a marine. For added benefit, you could add some debris to the canyon to give more cover.
I think it's very possible to do outdoor areas with time and planning. Me personally I like to have the outdoor areas as eye candy and prevent the players from going there but it's really up to the mapper. I know there have been lots of flames about this so maybe we should just agree to disagree and stop brining up this topic ever week or so. Since this subject has gotten so heated ever time maybe we need to have the mods start locking them when they appear.
Click it and give feedback or make suggestion etc... so this thread will stop bumping to the top. I personally think its a better way presenting this idea since it has the first post where all the usefull information from feedback will be stored <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Thanks <b>KungFuDiscoMonkey</b> for that idea on long range capability of the marines. I added it to the guidelines.
GreetzZz Kouji San