A Request To Hold Off On The Balance....
Shockeh
If a packet drops on the web and nobody's near to see it... Join Date: 2002-11-19 Member: 9336NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
If a packet drops on the web and nobody's near to see it... Join Date: 2002-11-19 Member: 9336NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
<div class="IPBDescription">Until you've realised the changes.</div> Hi all,
As the balance queries have started to flow a bit thicker, and I'm sure they're going to become more common and vehement as we go along, I just thought I'd point out something that I believe but rarely see off my regular servers.
<b>Marines are not the only ones requiring teamwork now</b>
I'm not seeing this theory put into practise so often. People are complaining they don't have an alien endgamer, but they do. It's called being prepared to be mown down (as a rampaging alien should be) and being the one prepared to run in first. Yes, Onos are ricepaper compared to their 1.04 incarnation, but not in the herds you can have them in by endgame.
But I still see Onos in 3's hanging around outside spawn, none being prepared to be the first in because they will die. <b>Stop caring.</b> Storm in, take the HMG fire, go down and keep ripping. 6-7 man team at endgame? 3 Onos, 2 Fades and a Lerk or two tear a base to pieces. Drop the rines, the Onos hit the TF fast while the Fades keep the IP's active. GG, kthxbye. But it's not happening.
This is an appeal to see if aliens will show the same level of cooperation that marine teams are using. Do marines wander into the hive on their own or 1 by 1 expecting to win? No. Aliens need to learn to do the same.
Thanks for reading guys, feel free to add your comments.
Regards,
Shockwave
As the balance queries have started to flow a bit thicker, and I'm sure they're going to become more common and vehement as we go along, I just thought I'd point out something that I believe but rarely see off my regular servers.
<b>Marines are not the only ones requiring teamwork now</b>
I'm not seeing this theory put into practise so often. People are complaining they don't have an alien endgamer, but they do. It's called being prepared to be mown down (as a rampaging alien should be) and being the one prepared to run in first. Yes, Onos are ricepaper compared to their 1.04 incarnation, but not in the herds you can have them in by endgame.
But I still see Onos in 3's hanging around outside spawn, none being prepared to be the first in because they will die. <b>Stop caring.</b> Storm in, take the HMG fire, go down and keep ripping. 6-7 man team at endgame? 3 Onos, 2 Fades and a Lerk or two tear a base to pieces. Drop the rines, the Onos hit the TF fast while the Fades keep the IP's active. GG, kthxbye. But it's not happening.
This is an appeal to see if aliens will show the same level of cooperation that marine teams are using. Do marines wander into the hive on their own or 1 by 1 expecting to win? No. Aliens need to learn to do the same.
Thanks for reading guys, feel free to add your comments.
Regards,
Shockwave
Comments
why marines tend to work together more often than aliens is because marines can spawn 2 at a time while 1 hive aliens only spawn 1 at a time.... AND even if you do have 2 hives.... you're very far away... and movement towers cant move you to the center hive either... while phase gate can take you to your destination very quickly to group....
so aliens tend to solo and die and solo again rather than to wait 30 seconds for half his team to spawn
EDIT: oh and also because aliens dont have med spam... med spam = make marines last forever until backup arrives.... alien regen doesnt even match med spam heal rate
EDIT #2: just an idea that popped into my head.... how about if we let gorges build "spawn points" like marines? i dont mean unlimited amounts.... but maybe at hive 1 you can build another 2 extra spawn points... at hive 2 you can build 1 extra... and same for hive #3.... of course these spawn points would be very expensive... like 30-40 res per... and it would also create new strategies for gameplay..... spawn point or rt? or chambers? would also increase teamwork slightly because you will spawn at the same location more often
haha sorry i know this is kinda off topic altogether but it would be how to improve teamwork for aliens rather than go around nerfing things
I do agree with Shockwave about the end game, but I have rarely seen that situation within Classic. The marines are usually the ones to win from my experience.
I'm not saying Marines aren't winning a lot. I'm more saying that the hour long games when Aliens do win aren't necessary, but a product of the way alien teams are operating.
Semi-aggressive gorge gangs also help out a lot. Since the nerfing of the hive heal, gorges vastly reduce downtime for aliens, and throwing in a few gorges to spam heal spray during a rush can vastly increase its effectiveness. A group of gorges can manage to lock down one exit of marine spawn with chambering depending upon how organized and quick to react the marines are.
The non-fluke alien wins that I'm seeing seem to stem from early game fades which stop both LAs as well as the electric rt rush, and from gorge gangs providing support in battle/stalling out the marines. It is quite possible that once aliens begin to get some teamwork and utilize good tactics, that it is really not that imbalanced.
I understand your idea in principle, but I think you are ignoring many factors. Either I am crazy, or most NS maps are <i>not</i> designed around Onos. There are locations, alien hives in particular, where Onos have an extremely difficult time moving around. Mineshaft has some very nasty spots where Onos simply cannot reach without getting torn to shreds. I have gathered up the courage to storm into a marine base many times, only to get stuck in a doorway, a jut in the floor, or some cluster of marines/buildings.
I am willing to sacrifice my expensive Ono-body to help slaughter the marines, but I do keep in mind the penalties. When marines turtle up in their base, and then launch a fully-equipped HA train 20 minutes later, I don't blame their single resource tower. I blame all the RFK our alien team handed out with their "suicidal" tactics. Marines will always be 10x more suicidal than any alien. Marines spawn much faster, they spawn with all their upgrades, and they have plenty of <i>long-range</i> weapons to use while they sit in the wee corner of their base, protected by a field of turrets and other large obstacles which can limit the mobility of larger alien creatures. Better marines will always beat you at the suicide game.
That being said, diversionary tactics own. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
One awesome diversionary tactic that I <i>rarely</i> see people do, is use crouch-blink to fly around a marine base. I swear on the NS bible, absolutely nothing draws more gunfire/turretfire than a Adren-Fade flying circles inside a marine base. This opens up a window for lerks and skulks to come pouring out of vents and doorways, especially when many of the sentries are busy tracking the Fade. Then comes in the Oni, to stomp like mad. And then by god, all hell has broken loose.
I've been on both the giving and receiving end of this scenario a few times, and it is simply awesome. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::onos::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tiny.gif' /><!--endemo-->
The game as we knew it has changed. It hardly matters if you started playing in 1.0 or 2.0, 3.0 is different in many, many ways. Oni or fades can't take on entire marine squads on their own anymore, tough titties. Adapt your style of play, find new and creative ways to play the game and use your alien prowess to the fullest.
The beta has been open to the public for roughly a week now. Some of us might have spent every day playing the game, some of us perhaps a mere two or three hours.
Either way it strikes me as "odd" to see that people can pin-point the exact problems and issues in NS in that amount of time. Their opinions often based on games on a single server, a server that might use plug-ins, servers from only one part of the planet. Everyone has the right to their own opinion about NS in its current form, but it would be nice if everyone could spend alot more time playing it and especially *changing* their old playing style to suit the new version, rather than flaunting their opinion in-game, chat or on the boards just to get flamed down or their post closed by mods.
It's new, try it, test it, adapt to it *then* judge.
My 50p <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Thank you Shockwave. I've been thinking I'd have to run through each thread and post the same exact thing. It's been a bit frustrating lately as the aliens are much more prone to F4 when things get hairy instead of pulling together to lay carnage on an outpost.
The alien skills complement each other and it's even more important now that teammates work in coordination to accomplish tasks. We can complain that the aliens weren't supposed work this way, but we can't ignore that in the current release it's the only way to win. Alien teamwork is now important in both Combat and Classic.
Thank you Shockwave. I've been thinking I'd have to run through each thread and post the same exact thing. It's been a bit frustrating lately as the aliens are much more prone to F4 when things get hairy instead of pulling together to lay carnage on an outpost.
The alien skills complement each other and it's even more important now that teammates work in coordination to accomplish tasks. We can complain that the aliens weren't supposed work this way, but we can't ignore that in the current release it's the only way to win. Alien teamwork is now important in both Combat and Classic. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree on that one.
But either way it can be so depressing on one hand when one team jst refuses to cooperate.
IF you can just coordinate a team Marines or aliens. you simply have such a huge advantage. Its almost like cheating lol.
heh teamwork HaX.
Thanks to the NS comic genious over at <a href='http://www.retales.tk/' target='_blank'>http://www.retales.tk/</a>
(I spliced to of his awsome pics together, its not my work)