Radical Gameplay Ideas That Won't Be Implemented
Ahnteis
teh Bob Join Date: 2002-10-02 Member: 1405Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation
teh Bob Join Date: 2002-10-02 Member: 1405Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation
A short post on how I visualize ideal gameplay:
Note: I've read the design docs. (Don't have link handy.) NS has strayed FAR from many of the original design goals. FAR!
Note: I just wanted to post this and see how many agreed with me. If you don't, no biggie.
Early game
-Aliens are underdeveloped and survive only by their wits. Ambush, teamwork, and running from battle are their only chance for survival. Aliens are playing defensively at this stage. Hive should be defensible, alien influence should be limited on rest of map.
-Marines have basic equipment, but have an advantage as long as they don't move out alone. Their base should be easily defended at this stage. They should be wary, but on attack.
Mid game
-Alien infestation spreading (through gorges building efforts and taking of territory). Mid-sized aliens start to appear with upgrades.
-Marines must spend more time on defense if they have been lax at slowing alien expansion. If they were sucessful at slowing aliens in early game, they should control most of map and start their attack on hive at this stage. This is the marine chance for a win.
Late game
-Aliens are fully adapted with infestion over most of map. Large life forms with full upgrades. Siege of marine base. Alien chance for win.
-Marines -- if aliens were not stopped during mid game, it is too late for marines and they will soon fall.
Currently, team strength does not have much relation to game time. Roles are almost reversed at many times (marines try to secure a few res nodes and defend until big guns). Alien endgame can be denied not by eradication of threat, but by relocation. Aliens never have a "home turf" advantage. Alien endgame is weak.
Conversely, marines can have a difficult time with early aggression and their efforts are often not rewarded sufficiently in midgame. Individual marines have relatively few options for gameplay style although team strategies can sometimes be varied.
Quick thoughts:
Only ways I can see to ensure gamestage progression (rather then getting stuck at different stages) are (not necessarily connected):
- Alien need only 1 hive (in random location), but hive upgrades over time (automatic). Lower dependency for lifeforms on resources and link partially to time. (Hive must be destroyed -- marine win -- before it gets fully upgraded or marines are toast.
- Marines get more clear advantage in early game, only hive area is easily defended by aliens. They have sufficient opportunity to develop siege weapons at mid-game and a limited (but sufficient) window to stop alien threat.
- Aliens play defensively until they grow in strength. Alien endgame is very strong.
Note: I've read the design docs. (Don't have link handy.) NS has strayed FAR from many of the original design goals. FAR!
Note: I just wanted to post this and see how many agreed with me. If you don't, no biggie.
Early game
-Aliens are underdeveloped and survive only by their wits. Ambush, teamwork, and running from battle are their only chance for survival. Aliens are playing defensively at this stage. Hive should be defensible, alien influence should be limited on rest of map.
-Marines have basic equipment, but have an advantage as long as they don't move out alone. Their base should be easily defended at this stage. They should be wary, but on attack.
Mid game
-Alien infestation spreading (through gorges building efforts and taking of territory). Mid-sized aliens start to appear with upgrades.
-Marines must spend more time on defense if they have been lax at slowing alien expansion. If they were sucessful at slowing aliens in early game, they should control most of map and start their attack on hive at this stage. This is the marine chance for a win.
Late game
-Aliens are fully adapted with infestion over most of map. Large life forms with full upgrades. Siege of marine base. Alien chance for win.
-Marines -- if aliens were not stopped during mid game, it is too late for marines and they will soon fall.
Currently, team strength does not have much relation to game time. Roles are almost reversed at many times (marines try to secure a few res nodes and defend until big guns). Alien endgame can be denied not by eradication of threat, but by relocation. Aliens never have a "home turf" advantage. Alien endgame is weak.
Conversely, marines can have a difficult time with early aggression and their efforts are often not rewarded sufficiently in midgame. Individual marines have relatively few options for gameplay style although team strategies can sometimes be varied.
Quick thoughts:
Only ways I can see to ensure gamestage progression (rather then getting stuck at different stages) are (not necessarily connected):
- Alien need only 1 hive (in random location), but hive upgrades over time (automatic). Lower dependency for lifeforms on resources and link partially to time. (Hive must be destroyed -- marine win -- before it gets fully upgraded or marines are toast.
- Marines get more clear advantage in early game, only hive area is easily defended by aliens. They have sufficient opportunity to develop siege weapons at mid-game and a limited (but sufficient) window to stop alien threat.
- Aliens play defensively until they grow in strength. Alien endgame is very strong.
Comments
but i'm afraid that there would be serious balance isues if the aliens should weak early in the game, it would probably work in clan play but on pubs where teamwork h4x isn't used or nearly not at all gameplay would be booring and the only ones playing the game would be clanplayers.
The reason that aliens don't hold a home-town advantage is because of siege weaponry. But because of siege weaponry, they also are weaker at the marine base. They play moderately at random locations and near their hives, but they're worse at the marine base. Because of phase gates, marines can work well at home or on the go.
The obvious solution is not to nerf siege weaponry, but to make it more cumbersome. All it takes is a few marines to set up a phase gate and hold it for a minute and thirty seconds, at which point constant reinforcements are rolling through and the siege weaponry is nearly deployed. Siege weaponry needs a makeover... let's think of other RTS siege weapons.
Natural-selection: Siege weaponry takes a few minutes to set up, but is easy because of constant reinfrocements.
Starcraft: siege tanks relatively weak while undeployed, but are still able to defend themselves, and were rather speedy. While deployed, they need constant attention, as otherwise they are completely vulnerable against flying units. Fast units often get the best of them, as well.
Age of Empires: Old AoE games only had simple towers capable of firing arrows, with catapults able to outrange them. Without upgrades, they were VERY vulnerable to anything that moved. With upgrades, they were capable of sometimes hitting non-mounted, slow-moving units. They needed lots of protection, as units determined to take them down could bring them down in a single suicide run (not xenocide style, they kind where they attack until the death). Age of Kings, the next installments, pitted castles versus trebuchets. Trebuchets were slow, and had to be rolled to the target (slowly!) and then deployed, just outside of the castle range. It took a while to deploy, and if under fire, would not last long at all.
Natural selection is completely dfferent... the siege weaponry can be quickly deployed and they are difficult to bring down. This can be fixed. Somehow regulate the way sieges are built using phase gates. That may mean nerfing the phase gate somehow, or making the siege more cumbersome in a more conventional way (longer upgrade time, less HPs).
Just my follow-up on his post. I'm in semi-agreement here. Whether that's my psychotic side or not, I don't know. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Conversely, marines can have a difficult time with early aggression and their efforts are often not rewarded sufficiently in midgame. Individual marines have relatively few options for gameplay style although team strategies can sometimes be varied.
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No. If this happens its only because the marines don't know what their doing. In order to win the marines have to pressure an insane amount early game if even half the people in a pub on the rine team know how it will be mopping up
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Marines get more clear advantage in early game, only hive area is easily defended by aliens. They have sufficient opportunity to develop siege weapons at mid-game and a limited (but sufficient) window to stop alien threat.
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Thats what happened in 1.04 they gave the marines 2 time zones in the game where they were clearly and undeniably more powerful then aliens but they made the gaps small so that if you missed them you were ****.
The problem with that is Clans drilled and drilled they got the A)spawn camp or B)Some sort of jp rush down
And never lost unless they **** up the aliens no matter how perfect could not win unless the other team messed up.
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Maybe a Science and Industry type voting system to determine the upgrades. Or perhaps just an individual vote and benefit (like in CO, but use up res instead of exp).
-Aliens are fully adapted with infestion over most of map. Large life forms with full upgrades. Siege of marine base. Alien chance for win.
-Marines -- if aliens were not stopped during mid game, it is too late for marines and they will soon fall.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is 1.0's "3 hives = game over for marines" issue all over again. Do you really want to go back to a situation of guaranteed loss if you fail to contain the alien threat in the midgame?
-Aliens are fully adapted with infestion over most of map. Large life forms with full upgrades. Siege of marine base. Alien chance for win.
-Marines -- if aliens were not stopped during mid game, it is too late for marines and they will soon fall.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is 1.0's "3 hives = game over for marines" issue all over again. Do you really want to go back to a situation of guaranteed loss if you fail to contain the alien threat in the midgame? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes i do. it takes how long to get 3 hives up? at least 10 mins so if the aliens get 3 hives the rines deserve to lose.
I understand the atmosphere reasons for this but gameplay wise it doesn't work.
And never lost unless they **** up the aliens no matter how perfect could not win unless the other team messed up.
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I really disagree with that, 1.04 Hybrid as aliens did not lose one round out of 100 games. This was also against some of the top US and UK teams. Teams came content with the way they had there tactics done. Duringt he 'JP' era alien strat creation became close to dead. 1.04 was very different when the JP strat had no chance of working and aliens had the upper hand.
1.04 wars imo where so fun, the lone gorg getting the extra res was kool, having to make an offensive line as aliens to hold back marines. Marines going on gorg hunt to try and criple the other team.
I really dis like the rush for res at the start, has to much of an impact on the later game.