Ns_agora
Immacolata
Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2140Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2140Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
<div class="IPBDescription">Map feedback thread</div> This is a new map made by KawaK.
<span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'><b>Now lets discuss Ns_agora</b></span>
I have included a screenshot to remind people of which map I am talking about.
<i>Overview of one of Agora's many interesting room, The Pit. This location sees many battles between Kharaa and TSA. The place is a common relocation spot for marines apparantly.</i>
<span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'><b>Now lets discuss Ns_agora</b></span>
I have included a screenshot to remind people of which map I am talking about.
<i>Overview of one of Agora's many interesting room, The Pit. This location sees many battles between Kharaa and TSA. The place is a common relocation spot for marines apparantly.</i>
Comments
But still ns_Agora is an absolutely beautiful map. You rule KawaK! <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Maybe some eye candy tweaks later on.
I can't keep it back any more either, I absolutely ADORE this map. Great look, great gameplay. The lighting is awesome, and the tangibility of the many rooms is high. I like how each little spot of the map looks like a real place, marked by a bit of entropy. It simply looks like a place people have been to.
It has good use of vents, there are many sneaky ones and they are useful for the aliens to circumvent tough spots. Since the map varies between large tall rooms and small, narrow places there is ample balance for jetpackers, they are good for certain parts but not for others. I like this. Skulks have a field day on this map due to excellent cover and the ventage. I also see more alien wins on this map than others. A good thing, IMO.
Now comes the aspects of the map I would like to change.
The ramp leading up to The Pit is Onos trap. Its generally hard for aliens to assault up of, and they are going to be doing a lot of that if the current "relocate to The Pit" trend continues. sometimes marines just fortify the heck out of the place because it is a very convenient staging point for Cargo hive attack. The ramp is an excellent firing lane for both hmg and nade spamming.
Simply put, the Pit, while it looks like a night mare to defend, is actually a pretty sweet place to relocate to for marines. Subsequently aliens should have a few more means of getting up there to attack, without having to take painful detours or up the Ramp of Doom.
If you look at the top picture, there is an area behind the two cargo crane hooks that is sort of a dead end. Now if you could somehow get up here as aliens, via the route normally taken through cargobay and the ramp, you could really make life miserable down there in that thar pit!
Also at the top, the ceiling lowers so much that an onos cannot get through without crouching.
I've noticed that marines can buildt structures on the ramp, but they all fall through. Perhaps this ramp should be designated as unbuildable territory.
(I've taken many screenies so I am going to break up my feedback into several posts.)
This picture shows where onos must crouch.
This spot, you must climb up the ladder to get to the walkway above The Pit. But onos cant fit through on the ladder.
The breakable walkway on the other side, leading down to water, is also a bit of a problem if aliens attack from the other side.
I love the weldable underwater spot btw <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> Thats cool beyond words. We've already had marines setting up base in there at least twice lol.
Image shows how marines can set up siege base near hive. Problem with this area is that its very far away from aliens spawn, and only lerks and skulks can reach it quickly by the vents. If a gorge was able to get up above the spot and bile bomb in safety it might help on the situation. You could also move the hive a smidgen back so that its not so easy to set up siege base outside.
I don't know how people feel about sieges, but I really hate it when marines ninja your hive and build a complete minibase that takes your hive otu and you're almost powerless, cannot stop it. If the positions this is done in are more readily assailable it might help the aliens.
But untill Flayra decides to nerf either siege gun or phase gate its probably going to be like this.
Unfortunately I feel some of the resource nodes are little bit too exposed, making it easy for lone marines to hunt alien res chambers. The most notable one is the resource node in Tunnel (not in the hive room, I mean the one in the alcove), where a marine can easily stand in the opposite hallway (or move down the tunnel a bit) and freely shoot at the res node and any OCs in there without fear of retribution, as the maximum range on OCs is very short.
Also there is this interesting build location that might need looking at.
More to come as I think of it <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
With motion tracking or a smidgen of awareness, I could turn around and block both entrances, as it's equally open and unapproachable by for aliens.
May I suggest something like support pillars or overhead vents with plenty of exits to give aliens an effective means to close the gap on their enemies before being forced to leave cover?
o as immacolata already stated, 2 hives are really easy to siege.
o This relocation point (see picture) for marines is incredibly good: access to 3 RTs; the wedge,MS and the pit nearby; absolutely no chance of missing the relocation, and further more good protection for onos with some long corridors leading to sewer/pit. One of those nearby nodes should go out imo.
The siege spot that must be welded first next to sewer is a great idea, but it made redundant as Imma's previous posts show. Perhaps making it difficult to siege anywhere but from the flooded room might make for some interesting hive battles.
Here's another hard-to-defend node for aliens.
<span style='color:red'>The nozzle mentioned is Main Generator. Image baleeted. Too many in this thread</span>
AFAIK all ladders are onos friendly. I once followed an unsuspecting marine from The Pit to Cargo , just crouching to fit in (doesn't slow the ladder climbing speed , and a crouched onos has the hull of a marine) then devoured him.
There's a funny bug in the room between The Pit and the marine start , the hollow floor is too thin to prevent onos from devouring hiding marines right through it.
Most of the map is onos friendly , only problem being that evil ramp (should be fixed)
Also , the underwater room has only 1 tiny entrance , which means a few turret + elec make it an invincible hive lockdown. But 2 OCs underwater can secure this area (marines can't return fire , and can't be medspammed here)
The Tunnel hive is a bit weak , early game and in case of sieges / HAs (2 choke points , no alien can escape the hive room , very dangerous for onos)
Sensory is the chamber of choice in this map , due to its architecture and large size.
<span style='color:red'>***** Too large image and whats the point? ****</span>
this map is very nice, it has alot more detail and different textures and the free use of phase gates really adds a nice glow to the ms on agora
Bit hard for alien lifeforms other than skulk to use them however.
thank you for learning me this.
Bit hard for alien lifeforms other than skulk to use them however. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Only thing that can't get in the vent is an Onos. You can gestate into a gorge in the vent iteself or a skulk can boost you from Hydraulic Generator (its a much shorter boost than the one into Red Room). That said the vent opening into Pumping Station 1 (the drainable siege spot) is sloped so that anything standing there is cannon fodder. I would remove the slope so that a Gorge with BB stands at least a slight chance.
As for Agora - the whole map has a fantastic feel to it, as mentioned in other posts. But it is far too marine friendly in most of the large rooms - giving ample time for a marine to mow down an alien before the alien gets too close. One common way to help with this is to put vents in the celing in some of the larger rooms, allowing aliens to climb down onto the ceiling, walk accross the ceiling to above their prey, and then fall on them. Tasty!
I think as mentioned before you could balance this map by putting new vents into the major areas mentioned. You could also help with the pit problem by making that ramp larger or adding an alternate onos lane. And put some more cover around those resource nodes!
Tis a great map. Good work
-Parallax
So if its going to be there, I suggest making it so marines have to prioritize their space i.e. they have room for phase and siege or siege and turrets but not both.
Thank you for the explanation...although my first reply was about agora.
Now delete this <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Everything you have said is right and i will try to do something about it for the next build.
For Cargo being very easyly to siege (like tunnel is too), well.. in fact when i've started Agora, the current version of NS was the 1.04 (or 1.something) and its <i>common</i> "Fade's acid rockets versus HA" gameplay.
So i've created the rooms near the hives thinking about theses "epic" battles.
But since NS 2.0 cames out, ... ... no more "distant" attacks for aliens, only "melee" (with 2 hives). So it's really more difficult to defend both hives Cargo and Tunnel. I will do something about it like adding more(and more) cover/vents.
Anyway, thanks again for this very useful feedback, i'm taking notes <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Yeh and 1 HMG in the right spot will hold him off forever <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo-->