whos to blame? the fade jump over the gorge its not that hard fs!
And just on a side note if you get ambushed by 4 hmgers dont expect to live <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-ZiGGY^+Feb 5 2004, 08:59 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (ZiGGY^ @ Feb 5 2004, 08:59 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> whos to blame? the fade jump over the gorge its not that hard fs!
And just on a side note if you get ambushed by 4 hmgers dont expect to live <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> wow this makes no sense.
You can't put the 'blame' on others, no one has ESP, even the best players mess up.
<!--QuoteBegin-ZiGGY^+Feb 5 2004, 01:59 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (ZiGGY^ @ Feb 5 2004, 01:59 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> whos to blame? the fade jump over the gorge its not that hard fs!
And just on a side note if you get ambushed by 4 hmgers dont expect to live <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> a) I just explained why the fade is not to blame either b) try actually looking at the hall sections I mentioned
There is very little room for manouvre in there, and even if the onos jumped (which he shouldn't have to honestly) he'd still bang into the fade, and if he didn't bang into the fade he'd bang into the lerk frantically trying to fly out of the onos' path (which wouldn't be jumpable because it's in the air).
If 4 hmgers without HA cannot be defeated by an Onos, fade, lerk and gorge (60 res vs 200 or so res) then all hope is lost in terms of trying to balance this game...
I'm with Forlorn on this one. This is especially important for charge to be made "fun" and intuitive. I personally feel that this should only be implemented for Onos, though. No other combination makes as much sense.
It would be better to just allow other creatures to pass though the Ono's legs than being pushed out of the away, which others have all ready said. Pushing just seems to say "exploit, greifing, and annoying"
<!--QuoteBegin-Revenge+Feb 5 2004, 04:48 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Revenge @ Feb 5 2004, 04:48 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> So basically give the onos a bounding box that floats 32 units off the ground?
That'd be an interesting idea actually, not sure how hitboxes would cope with it, but then again not many people really aim for the legs on an onos. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> exactly and i guess it would be possible to make the legs passable for skulks and still be able to hit them. anyway... no one tries to hit one of the small legs with the new hitboxes.
I was under the impression the old Onos hitbox actually did float some distance off the ground, but maybe thats just me. Anyway, having the Onos legs simply not exist for all game mechanics purposes seems like a pretty good solution. I agree, I never shoot at an Onos legs. I aim for more or less the center of the huge mass.
<!--QuoteBegin-Cxwf+Feb 5 2004, 11:48 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cxwf @ Feb 5 2004, 11:48 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> But I believe the devs considered the "push" attached to Bite to be a bug and were working on removing it. I don't know if they ever did or not. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> The dev team managed to get rid of it entirely. However it had such a big effect on balance they put it back in. I think this might even have been in 2.0.
lol, yeah. Personally, I cant see anything wrong with it. Ask flayra about it someone... And how could it be used as exploiting for gods sake. If someone does exploit it, kick em...
<!--QuoteBegin-Cxwf+Feb 5 2004, 06:09 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cxwf @ Feb 5 2004, 06:09 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I was under the impression the old Onos hitbox actually did float some distance off the ground, but maybe thats just me. Anyway, having the Onos legs simply not exist for all game mechanics purposes seems like a pretty good solution. I agree, I never shoot at an Onos legs. I aim for more or less the center of the huge mass. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> The hitboxes were a big mess, but that's only kinda the same issue. If the clip box (hull?) is floating, the HL probably wouldn't check for hits on the onos' feet. I think that's one of the things that made things so messy in 2.x.
It might be a better idea to just turn off the collision check between the onos and small kharaa when they're pushing against each other for half a second while disabling jump and such, and use the code that pushes you out of structures to pop you out if you decide to stay in there.
<!--QuoteBegin-taboofires+Feb 6 2004, 01:12 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (taboofires @ Feb 6 2004, 01:12 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> ...and use the code that pushes you out of structures to pop you out if you decide to stay in there. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I'm sorry? When was this added? I was under the impression that if you managed to get inside a structure you were just stuck (happened to me many times). Thats what /unstuck, /kill, and F4 are used for.
NeonSpyder"Das est NTLDR?"Join Date: 2003-07-03Member: 17913Members
wow, for once i agree with forlon... (checks to make sure hell is still nice and toasty)
yep.... i think that the two best suggestions (onos pushing smaller aliens around, and non-clip onos legs) can be implemented without to many issues, i fully support onos who can bump around little skulks.
and if there is an onos who enjoys pushing gorges into pits of doom, well, thats just sad.
Doing both would be redundant, wouldn't it? Because if you tried to push, you'd just walk over, or if you tried to walk over, you'd push.
What if charge pushes EVERYTHING out of the way [little aliens included], slot1 attack nudges any alien (depending on what kind of alien you are), and otherwise big aliens (oni, fades) just step over? I for one would think it'd be interesting if slot1 attack nudged ANYTHING around. Flinching yaaaaay.
I like that, gore already flings friendly aliens away in ff servers and so you don't see many stuck issues there <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
The moving around idea sounds the best in terms of realism but I can see where that can get lame.
Example: Teamsniping TFC Lamas coming in and pushing someone around the whole game for fun.
The walking over idea sounds 2nd best, but still doesn't help as much in those small cooridor situations. Maybe instead of the onos walking over, would it be possible to make it so the onos can walk "through" instead of over, ie; skulk/gorge/lerk doesn't exsist as a barrier to onos at all. though I know this idea removes realism, it would solv the whole oni stuck part.
<!--QuoteBegin-Saboter+Feb 9 2004, 02:37 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Saboter @ Feb 9 2004, 02:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Example: Teamsniping TFC Lamas coming in and pushing someone around the whole game for fun. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Huh?
Why the hell would someone do that?
Only the bigger classes can push around the smaller ones, and you only get to be a bigger class in regular for so long in NS:C as you have important jobs to do (read: KILL STUFF) so I doubt people would waste their time picking on the gorges (the only class that can't out run the onos)
<!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Feb 9 2004, 07:44 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Feb 9 2004, 07:44 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Saboter+Feb 9 2004, 02:37 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Saboter @ Feb 9 2004, 02:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Example: Teamsniping TFC Lamas coming in and pushing someone around the whole game for fun. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Huh?
Why the hell would someone do that? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> You haven't played online much have you. There are far more idiot-jerks out there then you would hope.
<!--QuoteBegin-Ahnteis+Feb 9 2004, 03:52 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ahnteis @ Feb 9 2004, 03:52 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Feb 9 2004, 07:44 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Feb 9 2004, 07:44 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Saboter+Feb 9 2004, 02:37 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Saboter @ Feb 9 2004, 02:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Example: Teamsniping TFC Lamas coming in and pushing someone around the whole game for fun. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Huh?
Why the hell would someone do that? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> You haven't played online much have you. There are far more idiot-jerks out there then you would hope. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Someone would save up for onos just so he could push them around?
Again, IT MAKES NO SENSE. NOT ONLY IS HE NOT GONNA MAKE PEOPLE ANGRY, BUT HE'S JUST WASTING HIS TIME!
I mean, if a lamer wanted to ruin a game on aliens, all he has to do is go gorge and drop a sensory chamber right away. Don't give me this crap that bigger lifeforms pushing around others is gonna open a new world for llama's to frollock in, because it just isn't true.
It's responsible to run a server without any sort of admins to police it. I don't really think we should get TOO caught up on lamer aspects of feature discussions.
<!--QuoteBegin-rockst4r+Feb 5 2004, 02:02 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (rockst4r @ Feb 5 2004, 02:02 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> 1. skulks should have no problem with running between the legs of an onos 2. an onos should have no problem with running over a skulk
making the lower part of the onos be penetrable for skulks and lerks would be:
1. realistic 2. more fun coz blocking would be no problem anymore 3. without drawbacks
so why do you spend all you energies on criticising this idea? its great and solves a problen that can be found on every public. we all know how annoying this blocking be... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> The one "Drawback" to this, is that alien players will camp out underneath the Onos. I prefer not to see this as a drawback, but as a feature. It would add a new role to the Onos, that of Armored Personell Carrier! With this implemented, and teamwrk, a gorge or lerk could hide out <u>under</u> an onos, providing him with Healspray, or Umbra.
This opens up another option, a use for those spikes on the Ono's underbelly. Why not let Marines be able to pass under an onos too? 48 pixel clearance is enough for a crouching marine, something Oni have always had something of a problem with. Let the area between the hitbox and the floor do charging damage. The onos needs boosting right now anyway.
Potential Problems: The clearance needs to be coded to work properly with mines and low clearance ground entities, like trigger_pushes (conveyor belts) etc. Other than that, It should be okay.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Again, IT MAKES NO SENSE. NOT ONLY IS HE NOT GONNA MAKE PEOPLE ANGRY, BUT HE'S JUST WASTING HIS TIME!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ever heard of myg0t(not just them though)? Kids getting kicks off **** other people off. Lamers that like to get people "raged" by doing anything possible to annoy them. CS has the most, but TFC and NS have their share of these folks. Remember every commander getting voted off every possible chance?
If they can shove you into the LOF of the marines they will thats all I'm trying to say.
Sounds like a good idea to me. Lerks still need to be able to push skulks around - the number of times I've been trying to bite a JPer attacking the hive as a lerk, but there's skulks jumping into the air left right and centre dropping me to dead stop 3 feet away from the marine every time. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Comments
jump over the gorge its not that hard fs!
And just on a side note if you get ambushed by 4 hmgers dont expect to live <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
jump over the gorge its not that hard fs!
And just on a side note if you get ambushed by 4 hmgers dont expect to live <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
wow this makes no sense.
You can't put the 'blame' on others, no one has ESP, even the best players mess up.
jump over the gorge its not that hard fs!
And just on a side note if you get ambushed by 4 hmgers dont expect to live <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
a) I just explained why the fade is not to blame either
b) try actually looking at the hall sections I mentioned
There is very little room for manouvre in there, and even if the onos jumped (which he shouldn't have to honestly) he'd still bang into the fade, and if he didn't bang into the fade he'd bang into the lerk frantically trying to fly out of the onos' path (which wouldn't be jumpable because it's in the air).
If 4 hmgers without HA cannot be defeated by an Onos, fade, lerk and gorge (60 res vs 200 or so res) then all hope is lost in terms of trying to balance this game...
That'd be an interesting idea actually, not sure how hitboxes would cope with it, but then again not many people really aim for the legs on an onos.
That'd be an interesting idea actually, not sure how hitboxes would cope with it, but then again not many people really aim for the legs on an onos. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
exactly and i guess it would be possible to make the legs passable for skulks and still be able to hit them. anyway... no one tries to hit one of the small legs with the new hitboxes.
The dev team managed to get rid of it entirely. However it had such a big effect on balance they put it back in. I think this might even have been in 2.0.
The hitboxes were a big mess, but that's only kinda the same issue. If the clip box (hull?) is floating, the HL probably wouldn't check for hits on the onos' feet. I think that's one of the things that made things so messy in 2.x.
It might be a better idea to just turn off the collision check between the onos and small kharaa when they're pushing against each other for half a second while disabling jump and such, and use the code that pushes you out of structures to pop you out if you decide to stay in there.
I'm sorry? When was this added? I was under the impression that if you managed to get inside a structure you were just stuck (happened to me many times). Thats what /unstuck, /kill, and F4 are used for.
And you can't greif with it, because all the smaller classes are faster than the bigger ones. (except the gorge, poor gorgies)
yep.... i think that the two best suggestions (onos pushing smaller aliens around, and non-clip onos legs) can be implemented without to many issues, i fully support onos who can bump around little skulks.
and if there is an onos who enjoys pushing gorges into pits of doom, well, thats just sad.
What if charge pushes EVERYTHING out of the way [little aliens included], slot1 attack nudges any alien (depending on what kind of alien you are), and otherwise big aliens (oni, fades) just step over? I for one would think it'd be interesting if slot1 attack nudged ANYTHING around. Flinching yaaaaay.
Example: Teamsniping TFC Lamas coming in and pushing someone around the whole game for fun.
The walking over idea sounds 2nd best, but still doesn't help as much in those small cooridor situations. Maybe instead of the onos walking over, would it be possible to make it so the onos can walk "through" instead of over, ie; skulk/gorge/lerk doesn't exsist as a barrier to onos at all. though I know this idea removes realism, it would solv the whole oni stuck part.
Huh?
Why the hell would someone do that?
Only the bigger classes can push around the smaller ones, and you only get to be a bigger class in regular for so long in NS:C as you have important jobs to do (read: KILL STUFF) so I doubt people would waste their time picking on the gorges (the only class that can't out run the onos)
Huh?
Why the hell would someone do that? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
You haven't played online much have you. There are far more idiot-jerks out there then you would hope.
Huh?
Why the hell would someone do that? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You haven't played online much have you. There are far more idiot-jerks out there then you would hope. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Someone would save up for onos just so he could push them around?
Again, IT MAKES NO SENSE. NOT ONLY IS HE NOT GONNA MAKE PEOPLE ANGRY, BUT HE'S JUST WASTING HIS TIME!
I mean, if a lamer wanted to ruin a game on aliens, all he has to do is go gorge and drop a sensory chamber right away. Don't give me this crap that bigger lifeforms pushing around others is gonna open a new world for llama's to frollock in, because it just isn't true.
2. an onos should have no problem with running over a skulk
making the lower part of the onos be penetrable for skulks and lerks would be:
1. realistic
2. more fun coz blocking would be no problem anymore
3. without drawbacks
so why do you spend all you energies on criticising this idea? its great and solves a problen that can be found on every public. we all know how annoying this blocking be... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
The one "Drawback" to this, is that alien players will camp out underneath the Onos. I prefer not to see this as a drawback, but as a feature. It would add a new role to the Onos, that of Armored Personell Carrier! With this implemented, and teamwrk, a gorge or lerk could hide out <u>under</u> an onos, providing him with Healspray, or Umbra.
This opens up another option, a use for those spikes on the Ono's underbelly. Why not let Marines be able to pass under an onos too? 48 pixel clearance is enough for a crouching marine, something Oni have always had something of a problem with. Let the area between the hitbox and the floor do charging damage. The onos needs boosting right now anyway.
Potential Problems:
The clearance needs to be coded to work properly with mines and low clearance ground entities, like trigger_pushes (conveyor belts) etc. Other than that, It should be okay.
Ever heard of myg0t(not just them though)? Kids getting kicks off **** other people off. Lamers that like to get people "raged" by doing anything possible to annoy them. CS has the most, but TFC and NS have their share of these folks. Remember every commander getting voted off every possible chance?
If they can shove you into the LOF of the marines they will thats all I'm trying to say.