Combat: Aliens Seem Weak ?
ASnogarD
Join Date: 2003-10-24 Member: 21894Members
Join Date: 2003-10-24 Member: 21894Members
<div class="IPBDescription">or harder to use.</div> An observation not a complaint.
I tried Combat (NS 3 beta 2) just recently and was completely usless as a skulk - got owned easily, now I have played NS 2 quiet a bit and was a nasty customer as a skulk before but now...
Ok I am new to NS 3 : Combat so that is probably the reason , however when I played as a marine in combat I got to General both times with ease and was 3 top scorer - I could even destroy Onos with little difficulty.
Problems imo is that a vanilla marine can kill vanilla skulks (in Combat) all too easily - this is attributed (again imo) to the small co maps and lack of ambush areas for skulks + the need to level up fast to keep up with the marines tech speed, so a patiantly hiding skulk is not going to get upgraded as fast as a marine.
Basically I am thinking the aliens are actually ill suited to a combat play type.
A possible solution may be to offer the aliens a choice of skulk or Lurk (still need to go gorge to access higher forms) on initial spawn or give the aliens a upgrade point on initial spawn.
This is not a complaint nor a suggestion merely something I observed and would like some comments about it.
If this has been brought up before I did have a quick look for similar topics before posting.
I tried Combat (NS 3 beta 2) just recently and was completely usless as a skulk - got owned easily, now I have played NS 2 quiet a bit and was a nasty customer as a skulk before but now...
Ok I am new to NS 3 : Combat so that is probably the reason , however when I played as a marine in combat I got to General both times with ease and was 3 top scorer - I could even destroy Onos with little difficulty.
Problems imo is that a vanilla marine can kill vanilla skulks (in Combat) all too easily - this is attributed (again imo) to the small co maps and lack of ambush areas for skulks + the need to level up fast to keep up with the marines tech speed, so a patiantly hiding skulk is not going to get upgraded as fast as a marine.
Basically I am thinking the aliens are actually ill suited to a combat play type.
A possible solution may be to offer the aliens a choice of skulk or Lurk (still need to go gorge to access higher forms) on initial spawn or give the aliens a upgrade point on initial spawn.
This is not a complaint nor a suggestion merely something I observed and would like some comments about it.
If this has been brought up before I did have a quick look for similar topics before posting.
Comments
You can kill and die just as equally.
Just the way you use and play with it, not the game.
You have 9 upgrades, and if you use even some intelligence in picking them up.. 9 upgrades alien should be able to take down 9 upgrades marine.. even if it is skulk vs ha & hmg.. if not the game is not balanced.
But I must say that aliens are not doing enough damage.. well lerk and skulk are But Fade and onos are NOT. 80 dmg for sweep, oh come on! or the 95 on gore! (well 190 to structures but stiiiiil!) Fade is the worse because the hit sector and rof are BAD, upgrade fade dmg to 100 (and wider hit sector and better rof) and onos to 125 (gore is ok) and it would solve many problems and people would again fear em little more. Just think about the 250dmg doing focus onos, it would tear la rines to pieces! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo--> (as it SHOULD).
And to GL & Mines, all aliens love and and so do rines.. and why? Because you can shoot gls to your feet and you don't die or surround yourself with mines and not blow up... Solution would be absolute 100% FF ALWAYS on GL and MINES. Would stop the stupid gl spamming and putting mines everywhere. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo--> (PG rush with everyone having mines.. blows <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif' /><!--endemo--> )
This, or a lame JP rush ends the game most of time. Gotten so fricking bored to this that Steam now filters all "CO" starting maps out of the selection.
Ambush, bite him in the ****, etc... especially in combat. You get to have focus AND invisibility in CO, and that is a lethal combination.
Funnier is focus, invis, silence... hehe
If that is true, then all the marines on the servers must be total nubs!
Or maybe the marines where you play are actually better than the skulks, or choose upgrades more wisely[than the skulks].
Really, superskulk is fine, I can take out lone HAs in big rooms with a bit of luck.
Ambush, bite him in the ****, etc... especially in combat. You get to have focus AND invisibility in CO, and that is a lethal combination.
Funnier is focus, invis, silence... hehe <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I actually find that invis is a waste in most cases. I usually play on servers where not many noobies frequent and thus the 'rines are somewhat organized. This means that one or two of them most certainly get scanner sweep early on. This means that even if they can't see you yet, they know you're in the area and are more cautious. Having silence without cloak is in my experience x20 more useful throughout the whole game. The only real counter to this is motion-tracking... and you tend to learn which 'rines have it and kill them first. That way the others are at a decent disadvantage to you.
And as a fun factor i've gotten way more "OMG! You scared the bejezus out of me!" without cloak than with. Most people just get annoyed with cloaked skulks all over the place. If they feel they at least have SOME chance then they are much more appreciative and thus becomes more fun for both parties.
Oh and I agree that no skulk will be able to take on an equally good marine after the early game when focus becomes useless for skulks. I only make exception to this on certain maps / places in certain maps where the 'rine is obviously screwed because of the immense connectivity of vents and such that the skulk can literally "attack from anywhere."
celerity
focus
silence
scent of fear
raaar.
Tell me, what attackes faster? An HMG or a focus skulk?
And what's got more range? Leap or bullits?
And what's more instant? Celerity, or hitscan damage?
Yep, gets me an average of 40+ kills per game with around 10 deaths. I rarely ever leave skulk, there's no sense since the skulk can do everything.
And which is also why that the other evolutions are HIGHER evolutions, and also tend to be great counters. Lerk, Fade, and Onos all can take on a heavy, and they all can take on JPers too....
Skulk can take them both on, but don't move fast enough, or have enough health, to kill the heavies at least, and since they can't get too far off teh ground, unless you ambush or catch a jper on the ground, you have trouble with jpers too....
Onos are great for heavies.... well, not so much now, but you can still easily dent them with a run in, devour, run out, rinse, repeat.
Fades can take on a heavy too... with enough dodging, blinking out, healing, and going back in.
Lerks can, assuming they're fast enough, also take them on.... Primal scream is great for heavies.
Primal scream, circle strafe, bite btie btie.
You can normally at least do a ton of damage, enough so that whatever alien finds it next can easily kill it.
With focus i have brought HA down to within two bites, and if the room was a bit bigger, I think i could have finished them.
Yup....
A level 9 skulk should not be able to take on a level 9 marine.
A level 9 onos or fade should.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->and since they can't get too far off teh ground, unless you ambush or catch a jper on the ground, you have trouble with jpers too....<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Ever heard of leap? If it weren't for all the other aliens I would take out jetpackers all day... as it is, I instead hit my teammates who are trying to do the same.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->With focus i have brought HA down to within two bites, and if the room was a bit bigger, I think i could have finished them.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The best idea is to just get in behind the HA, bite it, leap away in an unexpected direction, leap back at him when he isn't looking and take another bite, repeat. Which is why I get adrenaline at ~level 6.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->A level 9 skulk should not be able to take on a level 9 marine. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Gee, sounds balanced.
EDIT: Forlorn is right though, ONLY superskulks means you lose.
A level 9 skulk should not be able to take on a level 9 marine.
Gee, sounds balanced.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, it really shouldn't unless that rine stuck with an LMG. He's got a point.
Yeah I think thats the real problem, the maps are pretty bad. It's easy as hell for the marines just to sit in a hallway and blast everything. Superskulks are worthless when you cant even get any kills.
edit: faceoff isnt the one i was thinking of, but rather the one with the weldable 2nd armory, and yes, those vents help alot too
I've organized teams that do it almost every time.
Here's the strat.
Have all skulks go early focus and celerity then leap when they get the chance.
The goal is to have 2-3 muching on CC while the rest sit and spawn camp. If 'rines can't live long enough to fire that CC goes down in less than a minute.
Now there are a few maps where this is completely infeasible, but any map that make the 'rines sit in an unordinarily cramped space (most maps) this tactic works wonders.
Occasionally the 'rines get pretty lucky and fend off multiple tries during the early game. At this point it is still a very viable option for everyone to go different lifeforms.
Now if you say that you actually allowed the 'rines to live long enough to give them lvl 5+ and everyone is still superskulk... than yah... total 'rine ownage.
Shortest game time using this strat: 00:03:09 with a 10v10 game on faceoff.
Unfortunately most will argue that this is a cheap tactic and ends the game too quickly... but I say so does early game base relocation to a well res-stocked hive in classic ns.
<!--QuoteBegin-BattleTech+Feb 10 2004, 09:07 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BattleTech @ Feb 10 2004, 09:07 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Opinions.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'd like to add that a marine can spend one point on a welder and use the other nine to buy guns and armor and stuff, while a kharaa has to actually be a gorge, which really limits offensive options. An entire marine team can be equipped to repair a damaged CC without really sacrificing much of anything, but realistically, you're going to see two gorges at most. And this is ignoring whatever bug prevents heal spray from getting through the bottom of a hive - right now, kharaa can't ever heal the hive on some maps, and its regen is nowhere near adequate alone.
Other than that, though, I agree most of the problems seem to be map-based. After all, a marine can't become any stronger than he can in classic, while aliens can have more upgrades than they can count.
On a side note, anyone remember if there was a thread about how welders are on slot four? I think that's a terrible idea, but I wouldn't want to start a redundant topic.
A level 9 skulk should not be able to take on a level 9 marine.
Gee, sounds balanced.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, it really shouldn't unless that rine stuck with an LMG. He's got a point. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Even if the rines got an lmg... If said rine has level 3 weapons, level 3 armor, and ha... and say... resupply (i think that's 9)... the skulk shouldn't be much of a mtch.
edit: faceoff isnt the one i was thinking of, but rather the one with the weldable 2nd armory, and yes, those vents help alot too <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
You were thinking of co_angst. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->