3 Hives Then Onos
Yoko_Onos
Join Date: 2003-03-05 Member: 14338Members
Join Date: 2003-03-05 Member: 14338Members
Ok well some of us can remember playing when three hives were required to evolve to onos, I for one think it should be required agian... rushing onos's is lame especially when they have defense. Bring back the need for aliens to use some skill, and a true need for that third hive and finishing touches on the game. Right now the third hive is only good for getting that last chamber whoopdy when you can win without it.
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Comments
Concentrate on what makes onos 'lame' (if anything) and fix that instead.
It used to be a pretty good system that third hive onos. Used to be. Just like those games used to be about hives and not about resource towers.
The game has evolved and has gone a long way since the hive-alien class system. In my opinion it's relatively better and a "third hive onos system" is outdated and unessesary as there are plenty of means to take down an onos.
I don't believe it's needed now, since more hives gives a) more abilities b)higher armor, and c) more chambers.
An early onos is 75 res down the whole, since it's very easy to take down.
Yeah I agree, the marines can take a hive now then loose it to 3+ onos's and never be able to get a hive back under control agian. It really worked good with smaller games unlike now how its tottally onos owned. Im not saying onos's cant be killed Im saying the games were allot beter when it took 3 hives, Right now that third hive isnt as usefull as it could be. Sure the aliens got nerfed... just means you need to be a little smarter and work together just like the marines. As before the aliens could be commando's and didn't need to rely on each other as much.
If it sounds like im complaining, im not really the game is ok I just liked some things better before.
I remember the three hive Onos. They got to appear for the mop-up and nothing else. By tying Onos to the third hive, it would be the effective denial of effective base breaking to the aliens. Onos aren't exactly hard to kill with heavy weapons, especially since the whole thing is a hitbox now.
I enjoy seeing and getting to play an Onos for more than three minutes at the end.
uhhh..it is already 2 hives required for onos...
In 1.x, securing/relocating one hive means 75% (3 out of 4 if you will) to win for marines. After securing/relocating, if the marines manage to get another hive then its pretty impossible for a comeback if the marines has a decent commander. The marine could care less if the other parts of the entire map was overrun by aliens. After taking two hives, you're looking at 20ish minutes of pure boredom for aliens while waiting for marines to slowly tech up and make a march on the final hive. It doesn't matter if aliens got 100000 resources in reserves, resources doesn't mean jack if you only have one hive.
If the marines did not get another hive, then you're either looking at a one hive siege that leads to 40ish minutes of pure BOREdom if the com is upgrading or a gg fade rush that results in marine player f4 as soon as they see a fade if the commander isnt upgrading.(because rockets kills la marines in 2-4 shots and its splash span an entire room/corridor). If marines manage to tech up to ha/hmg 3/3 during the siege, it wouldn't matter for the aliens to either fight or f4 since a welding ha train rips thru everything under an ono (and most of the time thru onos since onos had no stomp/devour).
lets not forget the boring old jp/hmg rush that people use 70% of the time, where one-three jper kills the hive by himself/themselves and maybe the next hive as well with some com support.
Were 1.x memorable? yes they were, but not because it was more fun or balanced, it was because comebacks were very hard to attain (least for the aliens, marines would just do some jp thing and win the game). 5 minutes into the game determines the outcome of the match most of the time. So when comebacks occur, you're more likely to remember it if it was harder to do.
I suppose it is also more memorable for you/we 1.x players out there because it is the first time you played something thats you've never played before, something new and refreshing. Man...it gives me chills to think about the first time I commanded REAL PEOPLE and having the power to drop tf on people you don't like when /stuck wasnt an option <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->.
This game has improved (at least rts wise) compared to its ancestor...let the dead rest <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> .
Anyway 1.x hive lockdown = bad idea, now with 3.0 i have managed to take down single hive onos by myself with just a shotgun, they are not a threat till at least two hives, the only real problem is the fact that suddenly all that expensive electricity on your RT's goes to waste as the onos tears through it.
In 1.x, securing/relocating one hive means 75% (3 out of 4 if you will) to win for marines. After securing/relocating, if the marines manage to get another hive then its pretty impossible for a comeback if the marines has a decent commander. The marine could care less if the other parts of the entire map was overrun by aliens. After taking two hives, you're looking at 20ish minutes of pure boredom for aliens while waiting for marines to slowly tech up and make a march on the final hive. It doesn't matter if aliens got 100000 resources in reserves, resources doesn't mean jack if you only have one hive.
If the marines did not get another hive, then you're either looking at a one hive siege that leads to 40ish minutes of pure BOREdom if the com is upgrading or a gg fade rush that results in marine player f4 as soon as they see a fade if the commander isnt upgrading.(because rockets kills la marines in 2-4 shots and its splash span an entire room/corridor). If marines manage to tech up to ha/hmg 3/3 during the siege, it wouldn't matter for the aliens to either fight or f4 since a welding ha train rips thru everything under an ono (and most of the time thru onos since onos had no stomp/devour).
lets not forget the boring old jp/hmg rush that people use 70% of the time, where one-three jper kills the hive by himself/themselves and maybe the next hive as well with some com support.
Were 1.x memorable? yes they were, but not because it was more fun or balanced, it was because comebacks were very hard to attain (least for the aliens, marines would just do some jp thing and win the game). 5 minutes into the game determines the outcome of the match most of the time. So when comebacks occur, you're more likely to remember it if it was harder to do.
I suppose it is also more memorable for you/we 1.x players out there because it is the first time you played something thats you've never played before, something new and refreshing. Man...it gives me chills to think about the first time I commanded REAL PEOPLE and having the power to drop tf on people you don't like when /stuck wasnt an option <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->.
This game has improved (at least rts wise) compared to its ancestor...let the dead rest <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> . <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I dont want 1.0x's back, but I do know some of the things you are saying are wrong.
-securing a hive early actually usually mean a loss for the marines. wasting so much early res and manpower on a hive spreads the marines thin, allowing the aliens to secure the rest of the map and harrass whatever the marine's got. Unless marines do certain reloc's (cargo on nothing, subspace on nancy), they are very likely to lose.
-by 1.04, securing two hives AND holding it was near impossible. Marines simply did not have the res to hold 3 locations (2 hive, and marine base - where tech lives) for long.
-jp rushes were not that common. You people waaay over exaggerate.
Its really the simple tug of war for hives that made 1.04 very memorable. Hive fights make for large dramatic battles that can have both teams putting all their resources (including manpower) into that same battle. Games are rarely decided early, and if they are, the end was swift.
Anywho, removing the hive restriction was a good idea. Having your techtree locked down because you didnt expand to certain areas just doesnt make sense...in any genre. There were a few good ideas back then, but look forward, 3.0 is shaping up to be a kickass release.
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Maybe I should just say relocating to a hive or near a hive instead of saying 'secure'. Basically a base is secure by just haveing a few mines and ips which doesnt really cost that much. Yea...the mines were something back then <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
-by 1.04, securing two hives AND holding it was near impossible. Marines simply did not have the res to hold 3 locations (2 hive, and marine base - where tech lives) for long.
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I beg to differ, I can't count how many games I've played where the marines had just two-three resource towers (one at each hives) and turret farms/pgs/mines on both hives and slowly techup/expanding to more resources. Which result in boring games. All it need is a decent com who tells the marines where the alien is attacking.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->-jp rushes were not that common. You people waaay over exaggerate.
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Surely not around 1.02-1.03. But by 1.04 every other game involves jp and rambos.
I <b><u>WILL NOT</u></b> experiance hive lock-downs... again!
2 Hives for Onos now? WEEEEEE!
urgh, nevermind 20 minutes... 2hive-lockdowns usually lasted about 2hours where marines just had to get every last upgrade.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->-jp rushes were not that common. You people waaay over exaggerate.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I recall in later 1.04, marines winning 9/10 games by a JP/HMG rush before 2nd hive was up. No 2nd hive, no fades/leap/web to counter jp.
and those were the days of my infinate jp fuel:P
But at least jp/hmg rush was fast, whereas 2 hive lockdowns were just so boring for either team tbh... eg hera, proc... meh! reloc to proc!
A 1 hive onos is a risky bet. No stomp, no celerity, no umbra backup...and if the com sends out a shotgun extermination squad, you're done for.
as i said, that wouldve been good.
As for this wave of 1.04 nostalgia, type 'JP rush', 'turret farming', or 'Onos rush' in the search function of the forum and take a look at the date of the most of those topics. Notice a pattern?
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